New and about to start low calorie liquid diet

[Deleted member 21371]

Hi Colin is Exante ok for diabetes ? i was going to use it for occasional meals too but was worried about carb intake ??

Although this was directed at Colin, and I didn't look at Exante, I will chip in if you don't mind.

The Tesco shakes I used were 21g of carbs when made up.
That was is 201 calories.
So your body will be way in deficit of energy, and converting any foodsfuff as best it can.
(I did exercise to maintain muscle tone, as muscle will be converted with fat off your body otherwise)

And as this was the format of the original Newcastle Diet, the carbs aren't of any consideration.
They weren't of any issue in the original diet, and that was what I based my results on.

If you are going to reverse your diabetes, by definition, your body must be able to manage carbs, but at this moment, for some reason, it is failing to.
So, you eat carbs as part of the diet. If the diet works, your body will manage these carbs.
If it doesn't work, your body has issues beyond the internal fat that this diet removes.

Indeed, if your pancreatic islets are surrounded with fat that stops them working effectively, I considered that actually making them try would help expel any plugs of fat out of them, as opposed to trying to make what was a low calorie diet into a low carb diet, and deliberately not exercising my pancreatic islets and getting a false result.

(Another myth that quite often used to pop up is you need to add a spoonful of oil to the shakes, or you'll destroy your gall bladder. No one has in any trial, and to be honest, if you add 120 calories of oil in, after a couple of spoonfuls you've destroyed the balanced diet, which does actually already include a normal amount of fat, as now you need to leave a shake out, which is losing the nutrients, vitamins and the meal, just to turn it into a high fat diet)

 

[ColinUK]

Although this was directed at Colin, and I didn't look at Exante, I will chip in if you don't mind.

The Tesco shakes I used were 21g of carbs when made up.
That was is 201 calories.
So your body will be way in deficit of energy, and converting any foodsfuff as best it can.
(I did exercise to maintain muscle tone, as muscle will be converted with fat off your body otherwise)

And as this was the format of the original Newcastle Diet, the carbs aren't of any consideration.
They weren't of any issue in the original diet, and that was what I based my results on.

If you are going to reverse your diabetes, by definition, your body must be able to manage carbs, but at this moment, for some reason, it is failing to.
So, you eat carbs as part of the diet. If the diet works, your body will manage these carbs.
If it doesn't work, your body has issues beyond the internal fat that this diet removes.

Indeed, if your pancreatic islets are surrounded with fat that stops them working effectively, I considered that actually making them try would help expel any plugs of fat out of them, as opposed to trying to make what was a low calorie diet into a low carb diet, and deliberately not exercising my pancreatic islets and getting a false result.

(Another myth that quite often used to pop up is you need to add a spoonful of oil to the shakes, or you'll destroy your gall bladder. No one has in any trial, and to be honest, if you add 120 calories of oil in, after a couple of spoonfuls you've destroyed the balanced diet, which does actually already include a normal amount of fat, as now you need to leave a shake out, which is losing the nutrients, vitamins and the meal, just to turn it into a high fat diet)

Absolutely there’s no need to add anything to any of the recommended brand products.
I do sometimes add a spoonful of instant coffee powder or a dash of cream to mine however. Yes the cream will increase the calorie count but if I’m having 600 calories of shakes during a day then a little cream isn’t going to derail the process.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Absolutely there’s no need to add anything to any of the recommended brand products.
I do sometimes add a spoonful of instant coffee powder or a dash of cream to mine however. Yes the cream will increase the calorie count but if I’m having 600 calories of shakes during a day then a little cream isn’t going to derail the process.

70 cal in a tablespoonful. So those three dashes could well be the same as an extra fourth shake!
I even switched to black coffee, as 100ml of even skimmed milk was an extra 35 calories.

But not in the shakes for me, I liked the vanilla just as it was mostly, although the strawberry and chocolate were ok too.
I think that is part of the mental change the diet causes. The shakes are repetitive, so it does alter the "pickiness" over food that I had, ie in expecting food to be a flavoursome treat, that I could keep enjoying.
Not that it isn't now, but I had a reset, so I could select foods I enjoyed that would far better for me when I came off the diet. And swapped sweet for savoury without feeling I was missing anything.

 

[ColinUK]

70 cal in a tablespoonful. So those three dashes could well be the same as an extra fourth shake!
I even switched to black coffee, as 100ml of even skimmed milk was an extra 35 calories.

But not in the shakes for me, I liked the vanilla just as it was mostly, although the strawberry and chocolate were ok too.
I think that is part of the mental change the diet causes. The shakes are repetitive, so it does alter the "pickiness" over food that I had, ie in expecting food to be a flavoursome treat, that I could keep enjoying.
Not that it isn't now, but I had a reset, so I could select foods I enjoyed that would far better for me when I came off the diet. And swapped sweet for savoury without feeling I was missing anything.

That’s fine though. It’s my habit to have three shakes rather than four and I’d not add cream to more than maybe one in a day.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

That’s fine though. It’s my habit to have three shakes rather than four and I’d not add cream to more than maybe one in a day.

The original diet was three shakes, then a supplement of 200 calories of vegetables/salad for some fibre content.
Or at least the original I did.

 

[Lordy48]

My thread is here http://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/weight-loss-ups-and-downs-800-calorie-newcastle.84706/

I’ve not been prescribed anything but I know it works.
What have you been prescribed?

I’m not sure the name of the shakes they are prescribing, they have posted the samples out so hopefully I’ll have them in the next few days. She said they originally used the Cambridge shakes but they have made their own ones now, they come in 10 flavours so once I have chosen the ones I like they’ll arrange for me to collect a months supply from my community hospital. Will have a read through your blog, thanks for sharing it!

 

[Lordy48]

I stopped taking Metformin for similar reasons to yourself, just before Christmas 2016 and it was a great relief.
I ate low carb from the moment I was diagnosed, and was no longer diabetic (Hba1c of 47) after 80 days. I ate ordinary foods, not a liquid diet, so I can't help with that - though I was working at a firm in the English Midlands where the diet which Dr Howard developed for his patients was mixed and packaged, back in the 1970s. It became the Cambridge diet.

Glad you had success with the low carb. The shakes they are giving me are similar to the Cambridge diet. Anything will be better than the Metformin, it was a nightmare. My mums been prescribed it and has had no problems at all on it, we’re obviously just unlucky

 

[Lordy48]

I decided to take a break for a while, (probably the bombardment of low carb into every low calorie thread to be honest, as that never worked for me, but that's a personal opinion)

I wasn't actually one of the trial participants, but I did see the Newcastle diet results, as they were well televised just when I was diagnosed. My doctor supported me doing this, so I went for it as to me that was the only proven, researched, diet that appeared to have a positive effect on diabetes, and involved a short intervention in diet, not a complete lifestyle change for the rest of your life.
I have a lifestyle that involved grabbing food on the go, eating out, and I wanted to continue with that lifestyle.
So including a sandwich from Tesco's, a bag of crisps, and a bag of chips and mainstream restaurant meals had to stay on the menu.

Professor Taylor noticed that bariatric surgery patients seemed to reverse their diabetes, from losing weight prior to surgery.
This was on a very low calorie diet, consisting of diet shakes.
He trialled this onto morbidly obese diabetic patients, with a good result.

I decided to repeat the diet, using the diet he had proven to work.
I used Tesco shakes, they were very close in composition to the trial shakes.
I lost the weight, I reversed my diabetes.
I also found I could exercise better, and (until the lockdown) kept this up, and found this was also very good for my blood sugar.
I found the effect of stopping eating had the beneficial side effect of changing my relationship with food, it was very easy to eat the same food as before, but only when I needed to, rather than over eating and putting weight back on.
Also I stopped eating sweet foods, and switched to savoury.
(Steak bake from Greggs, not the donut now)


It does appear, when questioned about weight loss, Professor Taylor was asked if diabetics had to use shakes, or would other ways to lose weight work. His answer was something like, he had only trialled the shakes, but any weight loss would obviously be beneficial.
This was immediately picked up by many writing books to sell other diets, some which have worked on some people, some which you need to keep on for life, some which have had no effects.
I have also, anecdotally, noticed that losing weight quickly, rather than slowly, seems to have had a more significant effect on the reversal of diabetes, for those who continue with a high carb diet later. But again, that is purely opinion.
But the other trials of the Newcastle diet. based on the same shake style diet, have appeared to reinforced the first trial, and no other results appear from different diets that don't involve a specialist way of eating for life later have been published.
So I would say you are definitely on the right course, just don't be tempted to alter the diet, don't add anything, and finish the course, then refer back to the doctor for the follow up diet sheet, which is the normal, NHS, healthy food options.

I reversed my diabetes this way, and it certainly changed my life.

Thanks for your feed back, very helpful. I’ve been told it’s a 2 year programme over all, after the 12 weeks they will help me slowly add food back to my diet and help advise what to eat. I’m looking at the shakes as kind of a food detox, like yourself I grab food on the go a lot as I’ve a busy work life and I thought 12 weeks of just having to drink shakes will take any thought away from choosing food and then I can work on changing how I see food and choices etc. The dietician is also very supportive and I feel they are going to be really helpful if I have a wobble or anything. But hopefully I won’t!

 

[Lordy48]

Although this was directed at Colin, and I didn't look at Exante, I will chip in if you don't mind.

The Tesco shakes I used were 21g of carbs when made up.
That was is 201 calories.
So your body will be way in deficit of energy, and converting any foodsfuff as best it can.
(I did exercise to maintain muscle tone, as muscle will be converted with fat off your body otherwise)

And as this was the format of the original Newcastle Diet, the carbs aren't of any consideration.
They weren't of any issue in the original diet, and that was what I based my results on.

If you are going to reverse your diabetes, by definition, your body must be able to manage carbs, but at this moment, for some reason, it is failing to.
So, you eat carbs as part of the diet. If the diet works, your body will manage these carbs.
If it doesn't work, your body has issues beyond the internal fat that this diet removes.

Indeed, if your pancreatic islets are surrounded with fat that stops them working effectively, I considered that actually making them try would help expel any plugs of fat out of them, as opposed to trying to make what was a low calorie diet into a low carb diet, and deliberately not exercising my pancreatic islets and getting a false result.

(Another myth that quite often used to pop up is you need to add a spoonful of oil to the shakes, or you'll destroy your gall bladder. No one has in any trial, and to be honest, if you add 120 calories of oil in, after a couple of spoonfuls you've destroyed the balanced diet, which does actually already include a normal amount of fat, as now you need to leave a shake out, which is losing the nutrients, vitamins and the meal, just to turn it into a high fat diet)

I am also diagnosed with PCOS which the dietician told me also effects the way I process carbs. Which will explain why I have had a problem with my weight since I was 3, parents fed me normal healthy food and I ran about but kept putting weight on. I wasn’t diagnosed till a few years ago but the dietician has said carbs will always be a problem for me due to this condition so I’ll always need to avoid and limit white carbs. I’ll share the shakes they are giving me when the samples come in.

 

[ColinUK]

The original diet was three shakes, then a supplement of 200 calories of vegetables/salad for some fibre content.
Or at least the original I did.

According to Exante it was 3 shakes plus a 200 cal meal or 4 shakes/meal replacement products with no additional foodstuffs.
All depends what works best for you

 

[Drummer]

I am also diagnosed with PCOS which the dietician told me also effects the way I process carbs. Which will explain why I have had a problem with my weight since I was 3, parents fed me normal healthy food and I ran about but kept putting weight on. I wasn’t diagnosed till a few years ago but the dietician has said carbs will always be a problem for me due to this condition so I’ll always need to avoid and limit white carbs. I’ll share the shakes they are giving me when the samples come in.

It really is not the colour of the carbs that is important, the starch in brown carbs will increase your blood glucose just as easily as white ones, so there is no advantage eating wholemeal.

 

[Lucyr]

It really is not the colour of the carbs that is important, the starch in brown carbs will increase your blood glucose just as easily as white ones, so there is no advantage eating wholemeal.

I think you are being too blunt here and too focused on ultra low carb. Whilst both Wholemeal and white are carbs and so impact blood sugar, you can’t say there is no advantage in Wholemeal. There is advantage in eating wholemeal over white when eating carbs, as Wholemeal contains more fibre which is good for fullness and digestion.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

This is exactly the reason why low carb is not a diet I could do for life.
I chose the Newcastle Diet to reverse diabetes, not simply to control the symptoms.
That's just putting a plaster on it to me.
Yes, any carb is a carb.
However, if you don't always think "avoid carbs" you can understand the rest of the world eats carbs with no problems with their blood glucose. (Let's not get into digestion and absorption times, that normally gets glossed over as well)
But carbs do not increase blood glucose in the general non diabetic population,
So that was the choice I decided to make, to reverse diabetes, so carbs do not increase my blood glucose.
As many may say, it may not work, but if I haven't tried it, I wouldn't have known.

I do, like hopefully Lordy48 will eventually be able to, limit white carbs through personal choice, not necessity, as wholemeal is indeed a better option. The same applies to pasta and rice.

But there is nothing like a bacon sandwich on a very thick slice or two of white crusty bread in the morning, and yes, that still happens.

 

[Christy]

This is exactly the reason why low carb is not a diet I could do for life.
I chose the Newcastle Diet to reverse diabetes, not simply to control the symptoms.

Hi @travellor , really interested in what you're saying here. I genuinely thought that you could possibly "reverse/put into remission" diabetes with low carb OR low calorie? Thinking that the main aim was to reduce weight and blood sugar levels. Is there a difference between the 2 approaches with regards to the end outcome?

 

[ColinUK]

I think you are being too blunt here and too focused on ultra low carb. Whilst both Wholemeal and white are carbs and so impact blood sugar, you can’t say there is no advantage in Wholemeal. There is advantage in eating wholemeal over white when eating carbs, as Wholemeal contains more fibre which is good for fullness and digestion.

For me the supposedly healthier “brown” carbs always produce a much more significant BG spike than the others. Of standard breads for example, the least problematic is good quality traditional french bread (made with french flour).
Of course I’m better without it at all.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Hi @travellor , really interested in what you're saying here. I genuinely thought that you could possibly "reverse/put into remission" diabetes with low carb OR low calorie? Thinking that the main aim was to reduce weight and blood sugar levels. Is there a difference between the 2 approaches with regards to the end outcom

I can't answer for a low carb diet. If you continue to need to eat low carb, to me that's not reversal though.
If, like myself and many others who have used a very low calorie diet to achieve reversal, can then eat any number of any type of carbs, in any diet, without adverse effects, ie a normal diet as eaten by a none diabetic with the same effect, that is the only way to claim reversal to me.

 

[Christy]

I can't answer for a low carb diet. If you continue to need to eat low carb, to me that's not reversal though.
If, like myself and many others who have used a very low calorie diet to achieve reversal, can then eat any number of any type of carbs, in any diet, without adverse effects, ie a normal diet as eaten by a none diabetic with the same effect, that is the only way to claim reversal to me.

Thanks @travellor , food for thought - pardon the pun! With a recent HbA1c of 26 it's too low so something needs to change in my diet but I still need to lose weight. I thought reversal wasn't an option, only remission, but it's clearly worked for you.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Thanks @travellor , food for thought - pardon the pun! With a recent HbA1c of 26 it's too low so something needs to change in my diet but I still need to lose weight. I thought reversal wasn't an option, only remission, but it's clearly worked for you.

Too low and none of the rules for diabetes apply I'm afraid. I couldn't suggest anything other than speaking to your health team for any advice I'm afraid.

 

[rebrascora]

For me the supposedly healthier “brown” carbs always produce a much more significant BG spike than the others. Of standard breads for example, the least problematic is good quality traditional french bread (made with french flour).
Of course I’m better without it at all.

Colin, have you considered that the spike from the French bread has hit it's peak and is well on it's way down by the time you test at the 2 hour point but may have spiked significantly higher than the wholemeal bread at the 1 hour mark. The very fine white French flour will likely break down much quicker than the wholemeal, which will likely release over a longer period, so the French bread may just appear to be better at the 2 hour point but there is perhaps a major spike happening at 1 hour with it that you are unaware of.... that would be my concern.

 

[Eddy Edson]

Thanks @travellor , food for thought - pardon the pun! With a recent HbA1c of 26 it's too low so something needs to change in my diet but I still need to lose weight. I thought reversal wasn't an option, only remission, but it's clearly worked for you.

It's pretty low but I'm not sure that it's too low?

I had an HbA1c of 27 on one test last year - probably some kind of glitch, I think, but I looked into it. According to the research data I benchmark against, 5% of non-diabetic males aged 40-59 have an HbA1c of 27 or lower. For younger males, the 5% level is 25; for older, 28. Didn't record data for females but it wouldn't be much different.

Anyway, I'd say talk to yr doc, obviously, but it's not necessarily anything you need to fix.