minimum dose?

[Patricia]

I keep trying to resist the urge to ask the smallest questions, but this is the kind of thing which is driving me slightly mad at the moment, and we just don't have the experience to know:

Last night, baked potato plus salmon plus leeks and cabbage for dinner. Butter in potato. Looked up baked potato (flesh only), calculated ratio, and insulin dose is only 3units. Nothing else impactful, we think. BGL at 7 when starts, then 2.5 hours later it's at 14! At 5 this morning, so leads us to think it's last night's dosing gone a little haywire...

Question 1: do any of you find that there is a 'minimum' dose for you, sort of regardless of carb content? We have wondered this before. On paper, the count should have worked -- but didn't. We wonder if, like he has a cap of insulin dose for each meal, there is also a minimum dose?

Question 2: at what speed do you find baked spuds going through? We had thought pretty normally, but now I wonder if they are slow...

Question 3: we roast a lot of vegetables (in olive oil, obviously, not butter), including carrots, peppers, leeks, tomatoes. Last night's leeks were roasted. We have not been able to find any way of calculating carb with roasting, and tend to go with the 'boiled' carb rating. This doesn't seem right, as we wonder if roasting actually concentrates the sugar/carb -- therefore the carb count is actually higher for roasting? This could also have contributed to last night's late high.

Head-scratchingly, Patricia

 

[janine19]

Hi Patricia,
Im not sure if potatoes are classed as slow release or not, a im very new to this too. But I do know when Ive had baked potatoes ive had high readings afterwards. But I do eat thm with skins on. Sometimes for dinner I will have a prawn salad with a couple of slices of bread and only give 2 units to account for bread but have not found a low dose a problem.

 

[bev]

Using the collins gem book;
baked spud 16.2 per 90g flesh only.
Leeks 2.6 per 100g!

I dont know the weight of the spud - but do the figures add up to yours?
I am interested to see if they are as i sometimes find variations depending on what ref book i am using? Bev

p.s. we have never got the levels right after baked spuds! Normally he is too high!

 

[Copepod]

why not eat baked potato skins?!?

We rarely have baked potatoes, due to long cooking time, but when we do, we bake in conventional oven and eat the skin - it's the best bit! Sod the blood sugar effects for a once or twice a year event!

 

[Patricia]

Excuse me as I LOSE MY MIND! Yes, our figures correspond to yours; we use Collins Gem too. However, I just realised that we may have calculated per 100g rather than per 90g! Why oh why on something like potatoes (such a common food that everyone eats quite decent quanitities of) are we working in 90 rather than 100g? Argh! That mistake alone may have kicked him onto another unit, and at least put the bedtime one at 11 or thereabouts. Though the extra may have sent him into a hypo if not enough of the potato had hit soon enough...AAAAHHH!

Saying that, there are things to find out: spuds, slow digesting or not? Minimum dose: truth or imagination?

 

[bev]

Patricia,

Dont beat yourself up about it! Its an easy mistake to make - i have done it! Also if your rounding up or down it may not have made a lot of difference?Bev

 

[diagonall]

Spuds have a dreadful effect on blood sugars 😡
I have found that you need to treat them the same way as pasta/rice/bread.
IE, split the dose. This counter acts the belated spike in the blood sugars.
It's something to do with the amount of starch in the spud so I believe.

I have found new spuds do not have this effect though.

 

[bev]

Thanks Sue,

I have been thinking that i am just getting it wrong all the time! So we havent been having them when we are out as its quite hard to guess the weight aswell isnt it? Good to know its not something we have done wrong!Bev

 

[Patricia]

Thank you bev and Type1_Sue -- one step at a time! Hopefull eventually none of us will be so tied to weighing things anyway. By sight must surely be best where possible?

And I'm curious to hear the equivalence with pasta/rice in your experience Sue -- we certainly have begun to ask this. We always split rice/pasta now, to much better effect. For us though all this splitting means a very early dinner so that we can get two doses in and test before he goes to bed at 10 latest. Sigh. Our evening meals becoming incredibly limited....But I think we may have to do it.

 

[diagonall]

Just a thought Bev, would it work to inject after eating the baked spud? This would give the spud a bit of a head start.
As a child I was taught that a spud the size of a medium hens egg was 10 carbs.
Perhaps if you carried an egg with you it would be easier to guess
More sensible sugestion would be to weigh some spuds at home. work out the carb value then you know what you are looking at when out for a meal.
No one gets it right every time so don't worry about it.

 

[aymes]

baked potatoes can be really tricky to calculate, if you're not already I'd say weigh them uncooked and go on uncooked weight figures as they tend to be a lot more reliable, the cooked weights can vary quite dramatically depending on how they are cooked. The same with other veg, if you go on the uncooked figures you should be fine, regardless or how you then cook them. Of course this is easier for me when I'm generally only cooking for one, if you're cooking for a family it's not as easy.

I don't tend to find that they are any slower absorption wise for me but it's one of those things you have to find out how it works for you, in others it may be the case.

I think if the basal is right it's unlikely that there would be a need for a 'minimum dose' or insulin at meal times. I at times have no carb meals and have no need for insulin, my basal holds me fine.

 

[Patricia]

Extremely helpful, aymes, thanks.

 

[Copepod]

model eggs

You can buy model eggs (hen, duck, goose etc sizes) from small holding suppliers - they are used to replace real eggs removed from birds so that they don't lay any more. Particularly used in parks over-run with Canada geese, for example.

 

[VBH]

I suggest checking out the glycemic index for baked potatoes and some alternatives. A potatoes are a classic example particularly in Atkins circles since baked potatoes have a GI greater than 100 (i.e. white sugar). Boiled new potatoes are usually the best option for spuds, if you must have them. Potato salad has an oddity where the GI drops if its left overnight in the fridge after making it.

As for alternatives, personally I tend to go for cauli mash. With a bit of butter, chives and maybe a little cheese it makes a great accompaniment to anything and has sod all carbs in it.

 

[Patricia]

Both fake eggs and checking out GI for foods are great ideas --many thanks! Though my son would probably go through the floor if we brought out a fake egg. My daughter on the other hand would love it...

 

[Northerner]

I think I must be odd as nothing seems to affect me badly - I can eat mash, baked, boiled, chipped potatoes, plus rice, pasta, bread and there's no huge spike. I've done a lot of testing to confirm this at various post-meal times and my BG is generally pretty steady.

After all I read on this site I keep waiting for things to go horribly wrong!😱

 

[tracey w]

Using the collins gem book;
baked spud 16.2 per 90g flesh only.
Leeks 2.6 per 100g!

I dont know the weight of the spud - but do the figures add up to yours?
I am interested to see if they are as i sometimes find variations depending on what ref book i am using? Bev

p.s. we have never got the levels right after baked spuds! Normally he is too high!

Bev, i struggle with baked spuds too. had one last night, thought id calculated meal right, (with collins gem), but went low after 1 hour of eating. so presumed i gave too much insulin. Am using digital scales and find cooked baked potatoes weigh a lot of grams, is this right?

 

[bev]

Hi Tracey,

Not that i am anyone to give advice - but - yes they weigh a lot dont they? From memory ( i havent given one to Alex for a while because of how it affects him) i think one of his weighed about 250grams! I think it also makes a difference whether you microwave them (less water content) or bake them in the oven! I think i will steer clear of them for a while until i get his ratio's right - i feel like i am failing him when we get it wrong!Bev

 

[tracey w]

Hi Tracey,

Not that i am anyone to give advice - but - yes they weigh a lot dont they? From memory ( i havent given one to Alex for a while because of how it affects him) i think one of his weighed about 250grams! I think it also makes a difference whether you microwave them (less water content) or bake them in the oven! I think i will steer clear of them for a while until i get his ratio's right - i feel like i am failing him when we get it wrong!Bev

you re not failing him, you are very thorough with it all!! I weighed my potato before cooking and was about 300g and weighed after and was about 265g, so dosed for cooked weight. but did not know microwaving made a difference, that was probably the problem?? I dont have time to bake in the oven when i get home from work. 😱 makes you wonder if we will ever get it right eh? we must keep trying though 🙂

 

[David B]

sounds like you probably all know this already, but I was amazed just recently to see on the back of some potato packaging: nutrition per 100g: carbohydrate: boiled 17g, baked 31.7g. Had no idea of this, I'd been assuming all potatoes were 17 😱