Mandatory courses

[Ralph-YK]

I was at a Diabetes thing yesterday. Someone suggested that diabetes courses like Desmond should be mandatory.
I don't take kindly to this. As far as I'm concerned, the problem at the moment is that Desmond, Xpert etc are not promoted. We are not told or encouraged to do them. Nor are we told much.
The idea of making them mandatory shows a very poor attitude towards diabetics.

 

[Amigo]

I was at a Diabetes thing yesterday. Someone suggested that diabetes courses like Desmond should be mandatory.
I don't take kindly to this. As far as I'm concerned, the problem at the moment is that Desmond, Xpert etc are not promoted. We are not told or encouraged to do them. Nor are we told much.
The idea of making them mandatory shows a very poor attitude towards diabetics.

Crazy idea! You can't make any information course a mandatory requirement like a community order for an offender! 🙄

 

[TheClockworkDodo]

What would they do about those of us who wouldn't be well enough to attend a course, send round the diabetes police? Send us to prison? Or cut off our meds (bit against the "first do no harm" oath, especially for those of us who'd die without them)?

 

[Bubbsie]

I was at a Diabetes thing yesterday. Someone suggested that diabetes courses like Desmond should be mandatory.
I don't take kindly to this. As far as I'm concerned, the problem at the moment is that Desmond, Xpert etc are not promoted. We are not told or encouraged to do them. Nor are we told much.
The idea of making them mandatory shows a very poor attitude towards diabetics.

Idiots...I have no idea what the Xpert course is like...but...I've been on a DESMOND course...I'd never go again...a waste of my time...shocking how poor the content...information & presentation was...presumably if they intended to make them mandatory...what would the penalty for non-compliance be...force fed the notorious 'eat well plate'...chanting the NICE guidelines...CCG directives tattooed on our foreheads...ridiculous...agree unequivocally Ralph...demonstrates a very poor attitude towards diabetics indeed.

 

[Copepod]

Sounds too much like sectioning under various incarnations of Mental Health Act. There are sections for compulsory detention for investigation, treatment etc for hours or days.
Also sounds like community service / unpaid work for offenders. Personally, I do enough unpaid work eg riverside litter collection, plus educating myself about diabetes, both for my own interest and for my voluntary moderator role, without having to do courses at fixed times. What about issues such as transport and refreshment costs, plus getting time off work?!?

 

[Bubbsie]

Sounds too much like sectioning under various incarnations of Mental Health Act. There are sections for compulsory detention for investigation, treatment etc for hours or days.
Also sounds like community service / unpaid work for offenders. Personally, I do enough unpaid work eg riverside litter collection, plus educating myself about diabetes, both for my own interest and for my voluntary moderator role, without having to do courses at fixed times. What about issues such as transport and refreshment costs, plus getting time off work?!?

Likely another money making 'spin off' for G4S CopePod...or some other privately funded 'state action' group...honestly...what next?...herds of diabetics rounded up in the streets...tagged...carb smuggling...worrying how anyone could come up with such a concept...whoever it was/is clearly has no understanding of the real difficulties of living with/managing diabetes...as Ralph says...a seriously poor attitude towards diabetics.

 

[Bill Stewardson]

Likely another money making 'spin off' for G4S CopePod...or some other privately funded 'state action' group...honestly...what next?...herds of diabetics rounded up in the streets...tagged...carb smuggling...worrying how anyone could come up with such a concept...whoever it was/is clearly has no understanding of the real difficulties of living with/managing diabetes...as Ralph says...a seriously poor attitude towards diabetics.

Spot on Bubbsie.
Would just line the pockets of yet another "on the cheap" privateer.
It's bad enough coping with shoddy treatment currently dished out.

 

[Bubbsie]

Spot on Bubbsie.
Would just line the pockets of yet another "on the cheap" privateer.
It's bad enough coping with shoddy treatment currently dished out.

Fortunately I hadn't had much contact with the NHS before June last year Bill...then all of a sudden plunged head first into it...all new to me...I remember when you could have a doctors appointment on the same day you called them...or soon after...possibly get a home visit if you needed it...NICE...CCG's...Management Trusts...Education Courses (the one I went on...an absolute waste of money)...all need to be paid for...the level of administration is staggering...read of several members with hospital/consultant appointments...where they have attended only to be told the doctor/consultant is away...has to be rearranged...there's nothing 'cheap' about the NHS...apart from the exorbitant waste of ...time ...effort & funds I've witnessed...I have had/met really dedicated members of staff...had excellent service from those I have been treated by...however...sadly that is not the case for many...the lack of continuity is astounding...too much money available for (as you say) the privateers...wonder if any of these services are audited for quality control?

 

[Bill Stewardson]

Fortunately I hadn't had much contact with the NHS before June last year Bill...then all of a sudden plunged head first into it...all new to me...I remember when you could have a doctors appointment on the same day you called them...or soon after...possibly get a home visit if you needed it...NICE...CCG's...Management Trusts...Education Courses (the one I went on...an absolute waste of money)...all need to be paid for...the level of administration is staggering...read of several members with hospital/consultant appointments...where they have attended only to be told the doctor/consultant is away...has to be rearranged...there's nothing 'cheap' about the NHS...apart from the exorbitant waste of ...time ...effort & funds I've witnessed...I have had/met really dedicated members of staff...had excellent service from those I have been treated by...however...sadly that is not the case for many...the lack of continuity is astounding...too much money available for (as you say) the privateers...wonder if any of these services are audited for quality control?

Since Dec 2015 Ive spent months in hospitals, (3 different ones) around Sheffy and have seen some quite extreme things at both ends of the scale plus I worked in the NHS for seven years up until 2013.
As Ive written elsewhere it is my absolute view that managers from industry should be placed into that organisation to bring proper managerial practice .
Most NHS staff have not had a decent rise for going on a decade, this fetches with it various motivational problems and until that fundamental issue is sorted nothing will change.
I used to approach managers with various issues and they would say " yes I know, it's the same for us" and they were being honest.
I also would put forward private health care subsidising the NHS, my best stay in a NHS hospital was in a wing that was privately built and owned but rented to the NHS,, Ive also been kept on wards that were nothing short of disgraceful where the staff showed signs of being under far too much pressure. Ratios of Nurses/Patients were ignored on a regular basis, agency staff who didn't know where stuff was or had poor language skills.

The NHS should be neither a political football nor a cash cow for American money makers.

All the above does not touch upon trying to register with a dentist, waiting an hour for ambulance to turn up whilst clutching a vomit filled bucket in agony or
A GP appt in nine days.

This is just my personal idea, I would be quite happy for a nominal amount to be deducted from my pay to go straight to the NHS,, I'm fairly sure a lot of people would be.

 

[Bubbsie]

Since Dec 2015 Ive spent months in hospitals, (3 different ones) around Sheffy and have seen some quite extreme things at both ends of the scale plus I worked in the NHS for seven years up until 2013.
As Ive written elsewhere it is my absolute view that managers from industry should be placed into that organisation to bring proper managerial practice .
Most NHS staff have not had a decent rise for going on a decade, this fetches with it various motivational problems and until that fundamental issue is sorted nothing will change.
I used to approach managers with various issues and they would say " yes I know, it's the same for us" and they were being honest.
I also would put forward private health care subsidising the NHS, my best stay in a NHS hospital was in a wing that was privately built and owned but rented to the NHS,, Ive also been kept on wards that were nothing short of disgraceful where the staff showed signs of being under far too much pressure. Ratios of Nurses/Patients were ignored on a regular basis, agency staff who didn't know where stuff was or had poor language skills.

The NHS should be neither a political football nor a cash cow for American money makers.

All the above does not touch upon trying to register with a dentist, waiting an hour for ambulance to turn up whilst clutching a vomit filled bucket in agony or
A GP appt in nine days.

This is just my personal idea, I would be quite happy for a nominal amount to be deducted from my pay to go straight to the NHS,, I'm fairly sure a lot of people would be.

Not to trivialise your points Bill...nine days for a GP appointment...an appointment with my GP takes anything from two & a half weeks to three...granted if I have something urgent I can speak with him on the phone...if absolutely necessary see him (or another) that day...but...general appointments...there is a lengthy wait...possibly the NHS is 'management/administration ' heavy...sounds ideal...more money direct to the NHS...too idealistic for me ( our first 'disagreement')...with the way the NHS is administered nowadays...how would 'we' control where that money went...what it was used for?...more bureaucracy is certainly not needed.

 

[Bill Stewardson]

Not to trivialise your points Bill...nine days for a GP appointment...an appointment with my GP takes anything from two & a half weeks to three...granted if I have something urgent I can speak with him on the phone...if absolutely necessary see him (or another) that day...but...general appointments...there is a lengthy wait...possibly the NHS is 'management/administration ' heavy...sounds ideal...more money direct to the NHS...too idealistic for me ( our first 'disagreement')...with the way the NHS is administered nowadays...how would 'we' control where that money went...what it was used for?...more bureaucracy is certainly not needed.

Re the money just a general idea, the NHS needs to stop being nothing but a political football one way or another. Lets not overlook NI conts that are already being collected, yet the service being provided is generally not acceptable. As for the bureaucracy which you rightly point to, that is why I suggest Industry managers be placed in the organisation. Ive seen it from within, it needs to happen. It's at the stage where bright young people with the relevant qualifications don't want to work in it any more.
Why has everyone forgotten the appalling treatment of the young Drs ??
On New Year's Eve 2016 at just after midnight I shook hands with a young Dr who was responsible that night for 800 patients, just think about that.
I take your point re knowing where any public money would go, thing is, we've got to trust somebody at some point, it may well be idealistic, the situation has to improve, until the NHS is taken out of the usual round of promises come election time and ring fenced by ALL political parties it will continue to be the facile elephant it currently is.
So, likely that is what will happen. Just look across the pond, its arriving here now, the evidence is all around.
Then look at the rest of the 'evil pubic sector' and apply the same formula.

There's a bit of right wing media chat regarding Corbyn and Trident again.
Obviously all that money is being well spent.
That comment is not meant to deflect the NHS theme at all.
What do the public really want ??
Straight choice ??

 

[mikeyB]

This is a bit philosophical, but you can see how easy it is to slip into fascism. You make diabetes education courses mandatory, then you make treatment conditional on that. Then you think - hang on, it's cheaper to stop diabetes. Then you make it mandatory to not be overweight. Perfectly reasonable suggestion, being fat is unhealthy, it's the cause of the Type2 epidemic. So you make attending fat camps mandatory. From which you do not leave until you are not fat. There were no fat inmates in Belsen, so it does work.

Then you think, isn't Type 1 increasing? Their treatment is very expensive over a lifetime, and it's only on the increase because diabetics are now living long enough to breed and pass on their defective genes. Better sterilise them as teenagers. Type 2 comes on later in life, but we can stop the genetic link by sterilising the children.

Then we can all live happily ever after.

Here endeth the lesson.😉

 

[Bill Stewardson]

This is a bit philosophical, but you can see how easy it is to slip into fascism. You make diabetes education courses mandatory, then you make treatment conditional on that. Then you think - hang on, it's cheaper to stop diabetes. Then you make it mandatory to not be overweight. Perfectly reasonable suggestion, being fat is unhealthy, it's the cause of the Type2 epidemic. So you make attending fat camps mandatory. From which you do not leave until you are not fat. There were no fat inmates in Belsen, so it does work.

Then you think, isn't Type 1 increasing? Their treatment is very expensive over a lifetime, and it's only on the increase because diabetics are now living long enough to breed and pass on their defective genes. Better sterilise them as teenagers. Type 2 comes on later in life, but we can stop the genetic link by sterilising the children.

Then we can all live happily ever after.

Here endeth the lesson.😉

Stuff becomes cyclic,, every now and again it's the old, then drinkers, then smokers, then the obese (hate that term),, soon enough the NHS will only be for young teetotal non smoking fit people.

Make what they want mandatory, I just will not go.

Got much better help in here.

 

[Amigo]

The 'someone suggested' was probably just some hapless attendee fascinated at being out of the house or one of the 'educators' surveying the cash cow potential in it. I wouldn't panic folks! It's not even compulsory to vote in this country!

 

[Bubbsie]

The 'someone suggested' was probably just some hapless attendee fascinated at being out of the house or one of the 'educators' surveying the cash cow potential in it. I wouldn't panic folks! It's not even compulsory to vote in this country!

Possibly someone feeling smug or virtuous attending a course...wonder how that suggestion would change if they actually attended the DESMOND course I went to...the plastic cheese...half pint of lager...carrots...vegetables etc...showing my age here possibly...like watching Trevor & Simon from Tiswas (froggy went a courting fame!)...possibly an offence under the human rights convention...or the Trades Descriptions Act.

 

[mikeyB]

Stuff becomes cyclic,, every now and again it's the old, then drinkers, then smokers, then the obese (hate that term),, soon enough the NHS will only be for young teetotal non smoking fit people.

Make what they want mandatory, I just will not go.

Got much better help in here.

Aye. The diabetic Resistance. Freedom!!!

 

[Ralph-YK]

Desmond was alright as an introduction to diabetes. Nothing about managing it though and a load of time on fats & arteries.
A local provision I managed to attended in the neighbouring area was better. I actually got to do a carbohydrate awareness session there. This sort of thing is essential. The one in may area isn't happening. I'm was told they're not getting the people refereing themselves. It was luck that I knew about it though.
Doctors, nurses etc don't tell patients about it. It isn't promoted in any way at all. If you're serious about people attending them, then Promote. Mandate that medical professionals have to tell patients about these things and encouage them to attend.
Person running the Desmond told me there was no point doing a carbohydrate awarness. Turned out it was exactly what I needed to do.

 

[Bubbsie]

Desmond was alright as an introduction to diabetes. Nothing about managing it though and a load of time on fats & arteries.
A local provision I managed to attended in the neighbouring area was better. I actually got to do a carbohydrate awareness session there. This sort of thing is essential. The one in may area isn't happening. I'm was told they're not getting the people refereing themselves. It was luck that I knew about it though.
Doctors, nurses etc don't tell patients about it. It isn't promoted in any way at all. If you're serious about people attending them, then Promote. Mandate that medical professionals have to tell patients about these things and encouage them to attend.
Person running the Desmond told me there was no point doing a carbohydrate awarness. Turned out it was exactly what I needed to do.

Ralph have no experience of the carbohydrate course...sounds as if it would have been of more benefit to me...I got nothing from the DESMOND course...of course )pardon the pun) it is for diabetics who are newly diagnosed...by the time I got onto it I was seven months on...learnt far more on the forum...just a waste of my time at that stage.

 

[Ralph-YK]

I got nothing from the DESMOND course...of course )pardon the pun) it is for diabetics who are newly diagnosed...by the time I got onto it I was seven months on...learnt far more on the forum...just a waste of my time at that stage.

At best, it is just an introduction. It's only the start. Plus it does depend on the attitudes and abilities of the people running it. I expect there's lots of people who didn't get anything from Desmond.

I tried to get to do X-pert, as that is six sessions instead of the two of Desmond, hoping to get more information. Missed it and got the local provision. 3 sessions, plus separate carabohyrates and a "virtual supermarket tour" (which was actually just looking at labels).

 

[Bill Stewardson]

At best, it is just an introduction. It's only the start. Plus it does depend on the attitudes and abilities of the people running it. I expect there's lots of people who didn't get anything from Desmond.

I tried to get to do X-pert, as that is six sessions instead of the two of Desmond, hoping to get more information. Missed it and got the local provision. 3 sessions, plus separate carabohyrates and a "virtual supermarket tour" (which was actually just looking at labels).

Hello Ralph.

This I would like to know more about.
Tomorrow I see my nurse again and will be told about portion control, exercise and all the reasons why I don't need to test AGAIN.

Having read the views in here I'm not interested in DESMOND at all.