Libre 2

[Proud to be erratic]

Glad it's not just me then,

No, its not just you. As much as I am grateful for Libre 2, sometimes its a real pain trying to work with a sensor that is well adrift from actual BG. My failure rate remains above 50%.

I've had to turn all the alarms off as it was getting annoying,

Once I have to turn the alarms off I give in, replace it and ask Abbott for a replacement.

using test strips for bolusing, as according to my sensor, I should be in a diabetic coma by now

I get a test allowance of 4 x 50 test cassette monthly. Since that threshold was created by my GP (7x daily tests allowed, 10 x daily sought) I have never managed to build up a reserve and recently was down to my last 5 tests before my renewal prescription arrived; I find that stressful. It also means I can't afford the luxury of a reserve cassette upstairs as well as downstairs, never mind in a travel bag.

@rebrascora remarked it's funny how a duff sensor knocks your confidence.
Totally agree, it's also unnecessarily stressful and why I've banged on in other threads about the total lack of NHS contract manager awareness of the level of sensor unreliability. Presumption is that 'all is fine'.

 

[littlevoice359]

Personally I think the Libre would be much more useful if the software allowed some way to calibrate each sensor against a finger prick test.

Like many others, I have learned to compensate for sensor inaccuracies using the calibration capability of XDrip. Without it, I would have found several sensors, in the past few months alone, to be sufficiently inaccurate as to be almost useless. I still get the odd faulty sensor that I need to return to Abbott, but very seldom.

Abbott could do us all a big favour by adding a calibration function to their own software, in my opinion. It might even save them money in the long run, due to fewer customer returns.

After all, Dexcom supports calibration and it’s more expensive (which might lead one to expect calibration less likely to be needed).

 

[Lucyr]

Personally I think the Libre would be much more useful if the software allowed some way to calibrate each sensor against a finger prick test.

Like many others, I have learned to compensate for sensor inaccuracies using the calibration capability of XDrip. Without it, I would have found several sensors, in the past few months alone, to be sufficiently inaccurate as to be almost useless. I still get the odd faulty sensor that I need to return to Abbott, but very seldom.

Abbott could do us all a big favour by adding a calibration function to their own software, in my opinion. It might even save them money in the long run, due to fewer customer returns.

After all, Dexcom supports calibration and it’s more expensive (which might lead one to expect calibration less likely to be needed).

I don’t think more expensive equals less calibration is how it works. The dexcom one is the same price as libre and you can’t calibrate that either.

If a sensor is out to the point of wanting to calibrate it I just get it replaced, as they’re usually accurate enough for me. Even finger pricking has a margin of error

 

[littlevoice359]

Oops. My mistake. Sorry. I had Dexcom for a while and could have sworn it allowed calibration. I had to stop using it when they changed the adhesive and I developed an allergy. Never a dull moment with T1D.

 

[Lucyr]

Oops. My mistake. Sorry. I had Dexcom for a while and could have sworn it allowed calibration. I had to stop using it when they changed the adhesive and I developed an allergy. Never a dull moment with T1D.

You can calibrate the more expensive dexcom models just not the cheaper ones

 

[Bruce Stephens]

Oops. My mistake. Sorry. I had Dexcom for a while and could have sworn it allowed calibration. I had to stop using it when they changed the adhesive and I developed an allergy. Never a dull moment with T1D.

G6 (and G7, I think) allow calibration, but the cheaper One does not.

 

[littlevoice359]

Cheers for that. I was using the G6, so it seems my memory wasn’t failing me after all. Good to know

 

[rebrascora]

Well, my replacement sensor just arrived and they have sent me a Libre 2 instead of 1. I hope this isn't the beginning of the end for the original model as I usually get on with it really well. I believe my Libre reader will work with the Libre 2 but just not have the alarms so I am fine with that as long as the factory calibration is the same. I am guessing the algorithm in the reader will interpret the results in the same way so providing the calibration is the same, I should get the same results. My Libre almost always reads slightly below BG but I see quite a few people say Libre 2 reads slightly higher for them. That would take quite a bit of mental adjustment on my part.... but we will see when my current one needs replacing in 9 days.

 

[Proud to be erratic]

Well, my replacement sensor just arrived and they have sent me a Libre 2 instead of 1. I hope this isn't the beginning of the end for the original model as I usually get on with it really well. I believe my Libre reader will work with the Libre 2 but just not have the alarms so I am fine with that as long as the factory calibration is the same. I am guessing the algorithm in the reader will interpret the results in the same way so providing the calibration is the same, I should get the same results. My Libre almost always reads slightly below BG but I see quite a few people say Libre 2 reads slightly higher for them. That would take quite a bit of mental adjustment on my part.... but we will see when my current one needs replacing in 9 days.

If you won't be using the alarms, that differential of readings won't be so challenging. As you already know its the trend along with 'roughly' where you currently are that makes the flash CGM so useful.

Perhaps this could be a helpful marker for the inevitable transition to Libre 2 at some future point. The main thing is whether your reader will work with L2. If it does, great - but will it allow alarms if you can even switch those on? I've tried reader only, android phone only and for the last 6+ months Reader plus Phone. That last combination is my preferred solution; I like the simplicity and user friendliness of the Reader for flash readings, which come quickly and reliably; but unquestionably the Phone gives so much better Reports on LibreLink, the phone app and allows me to easilybput in insulin and carb data, sending it all to LibreView without a cable connection.

Even if your phone doesn't support LibreLink, could you ask a friend or relative to install that app and give you some insight into what you are missing? They would only share with you by scanning your sensor, so got to be nearby! Then at least you'd know what you currently don't get!

Good luck.

 

[helli]

Tip is to cleanse skin with alcohol wipes then allow to dry before applying, Abbott did once supply them but stopped for some reason, cheap to buy on likes of ebay amazon.

Rather than using single use, individually packaged alcohol wipes, I usually apply my sensor once I have dried myself from the shower. I do not use moisturiser and avoid shower cremes with added moisturiser.
If I need to apply it later in the day, I use surgical spirit.

 

[helli]

Personally I think the Libre would be much more useful if the software allowed some way to calibrate each sensor against a finger prick test.

That is possible if you use one of the unofficial apps such as xDrip+.
Until I changed to a different CGM, I used xDrip+ for years. Calibration was the primary driver for me to use it as I always found Libre was off - it was as if Abbott's factory man was a different species to me.
Unfortunately, these unofficial apps are written by techies and any documentation is written in "techy-speak". As an engineer, I just saw this as another minot hiccup to overcome but I have read some people find it rather challenging to get working and use.

 

[rebrascora]

@Proud to be erratic

Actually the mental impact of the Libre 2 sensor reading slightly higher rather than lower would cause me more problems than it would with alarms I believe because I have learned to make that mental adjustment and run my levels a little lower and base any micro carb adjustments on that mental adjustment. Changing an alarm setting would be relatively easy to account for the change and probably a one off adjustment. Breaking a mental adjustment habit of several years will be a lot more challenging.

For me the simplicity of the Libre 1 and reader combination is it's strength. I can input my carbs and insulin into the reader but I know there are other functions on the phone app, but I suspect the app is one of the main reasons many people have more issues with the Libre 2, so it may be swings and roundabouts. You get more facilities but you lose reliability.

I really don't want to live by alarms and I have good hypo awareness so I don't feel I need them (certainly at the moment). The Libre 1 readers I have (I now have a back up reader kindly donated by @eggyg) do not have blue tooth so, as far as I am aware, they can't alarm and my phone is there to make calls and texts and sometimes that can be an intrusion, so really feel quite strongly that I don't want to upgrade.
The original Libre works really, really well for me and I am (as is my consultant) very happy with the level of diabetes management I can achieve with it. If my diabetes management was adequate but not great, I would give it a go, but don't feel any inclination to risk my very happy status quo for something that might be a tiny bit better or potentially worse. I would almost certainly disable the alarms at night if I was pushed into Libre 2. I know you don't have glucagon so it is much more critical for you to detect hypos early because you have no safety net but my combination of low carb eating and Levemir and good hypo awareness means my set up works well for me and most importantly, I have confidence in it..... One sensor malfunction every 6-12 months is a lot better than the 50% failure rate you seem to be suffering and I know for a fact you are not the only one to have significant failures. That would really knock my confidence.

 

[nonethewiser]

Rather than using single use, individually packaged alcohol wipes, I usually apply my sensor once I have dried myself from the shower. I do not use moisturiser and avoid shower cremes with added moisturiser.
If I need to apply it later in the day, I use surgical spirit.

Just get better adhesion when cleaning skin with alcohol wipe, do same when applying pods.

Always have surgical spirit in medicine cupboard, great for cleaning skin especially when you got overexcited puppy nipping scratching hands, get it from Superdrug in town, 2 bottles each time.

 

[Proud to be erratic]

@Proud to be erratic

Actually the mental impact of the Libre 2 sensor reading slightly higher rather than lower would cause me more problems than it would with alarms I believe because I have learned to make that mental adjustment and run my levels a little lower and base any micro carb adjustments on that mental adjustment. Changing an alarm setting would be relatively easy to account for the change and probably a one off adjustment. Breaking a mental adjustment habit of several years will be a lot more challenging.

For me the simplicity of the Libre 1 and reader combination is it's strength. I can input my carbs and insulin into the reader but I know there are other functions on the phone app, but I suspect the app is one of the main reasons many people have more issues with the Libre 2, so it may be swings and roundabouts. You get more facilities but you lose reliability.

I really don't want to live by alarms and I have good hypo awareness so I don't feel I need them (certainly at the moment). The Libre 1 readers I have (I now have a back up reader kindly donated by @eggyg) do not have blue tooth so, as far as I am aware, they can't alarm and my phone is there to make calls and texts and sometimes that can be an intrusion, so really feel quite strongly that I don't want to upgrade.
The original Libre works really, really well for me and I am (as is my consultant) very happy with the level of diabetes management I can achieve with it. If my diabetes management was adequate but not great, I would give it a go, but don't feel any inclination to risk my very happy status quo for something that might be a tiny bit better or potentially worse. I would almost certainly disable the alarms at night if I was pushed into Libre 2. I know you don't have glucagon so it is much more critical for you to detect hypos early because you have no safety net but my combination of low carb eating and Levemir and good hypo awareness means my set up works well for me and most importantly, I have confidence in it..... One sensor malfunction every 6-12 months is a lot better than the 50% failure rate you seem to be suffering and I know for a fact you are not the only one to have significant failures. That would really knock my confidence.

Hello @rebrascora , I was going to PM you yesterday, but it turned into a silly day. I'm still struggling with my post op recovery and 2 app'ts yesterday proved too much, so I just slept when I got home, which was clearly needed. Today I don't seem able to PM you at all, it just voids your address each time. Am I doing something wrong? Below is a cut and paste of that PM.

Thanks for your fulsome (sp?) reply on Tuesday explaining why you're sold on L1 and L2 won't be for you anytime soon. I did already know much of that from various threads and I wasn't trying to be a nuisance, let alone cause you to provide such a lengthy response. I just saw a potential opportunity for you, given that you had an L2 in your grasp, to at least see what you might gain from it.

I only have experience of L2. I've tried it using Reader only, phone only and Reader with phone; the latter is the best fit for me, even though it means having 2 devices nearby - but I'm rarely far from my phone anyway (actually 2 phones because I use one solely for DM apps, a legacy from when I had Diabox working properly. I need to reorganise myself, but never make the time to do that!)

Like yourself I also like the simplicity of the Reader - it's very basic but does what is needed reasonably quickly. I don't have great success with L2, too many failures, but these occur with the Reader so aren't caused by the phone or phone app. I've concluded I'm in a minority, but not a tiny minority and its my body that doesn't like L2. So the Reader is my first choice for getting a quick scan and I don't mind the cost / penalty of having an extra device.

As a matter of interest have you tried fitting the L2 sensor to see if it works with your L1 reader, ie to give you a pathway if L1s eventually become unavailable?

All for now, got another full day today! Sorry if I over-proddded - wasn't intentional! I still haven't got measurably further with reading about Sugar Surfing; but I think that is broadly what I'm already doing in that I feed the excess insulin periodically and stay relaxed when I'm above 5.6 (the upper threshold for the reader or app alarm; when that sounds I start to monitor more rigorously). Actually just writing that last sentence draws my attention to the fact that I'm not using the alarm to tell me when I'm hypo or even close, I'm using it solely to assist my surfing. I, like you, have pretty good hypo awareness; I sometimes wonder if I'm complacent about that, but very infrequently I do get into or close to hypo-land and thus reassure myself that my awareness is fine. My monitoring once at or below 5.6 simply keeps me away from hypos.

 

[helli]

As a matter of interest have you tried fitting the L2 sensor to see if it works with your L1 reader, ie to give you a pathway if L1s eventually become unavailable?

My understanding is that L1 reader can scan a L2 but you will be missing the alerts which many of us find to me the most valuable feature. This is not surprising as it will be missing a Bluetooth receiver.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

My understanding is that L1 reader can scan a L2 but you will be missing the alerts

I think it depends on the vintage of the reader. I think I had one that needed an update at some point which also gave it the ability to handle Libre 2 (though without alarms as you say), and the newer one could support it out of the box (indeed, the box said it can read Libre and Libre 2).

 

[Martin62]

Well, my replacement sensor just arrived and they have sent me a Libre 2 instead of 1. I hope this isn't the beginning of the end for the original model as I usually get on with it really well. I believe my Libre reader will work with the Libre 2 but just not have the alarms so I am fine with that as long as the factory calibration is the same. I am guessing the algorithm in the reader will interpret the results in the same way so providing the calibration is the same, I should get the same results. My Libre almost always reads slightly below BG but I see quite a few people say Libre 2 reads slightly higher for them. That would take quite a bit of mental adjustment on my part.... but we will see when my current one needs replacing in 9 days.

Hi Barbara, just wondered if you have started using the libre 2 that they sent you yet, and if so how are you finding it ?
My replacement has proved to be very accurate and has lasted the full 14 days.
Kind regards
Martin

 

[rebrascora]

Hi Barbara, just wondered if you have started using the libre 2 that they sent you yet, and if so how are you finding it ?
My replacement has proved to be very accurate and has lasted the full 14 days.
Kind regards
Martin

Hi Martin.

Yes I am using the Libre 2 sensor they sent but not overly impressed. I am using it with the Libre 1 reader so no alarms. It is currently reading about 1.5 mmols below fingerprick but it started out not too bad so I am not sure it is going to last the distance and I am using far too many test strips to double check because it shows me in the red far more than I am and I have sadly lost some confidence in the system which is also causing me to use extra test strips.

Starting to wonder if I should take a break from Libre for a week or two to get my perspective back. I hate the first day or two without it as you feel so vulnerable but I might come back to it more appreciative rather than resentful as I am feeling at the moment. Got a consultant tel appt coming up later this month so may wait until after that to go back to full time finger pricking.

Pleased you are getting on better and your new sensor has made it to full term with no problems. Hope your next ones are similarly good'uns!

 

[Martin62]

Hi Martin.

Yes I am using the Libre 2 sensor they sent but not overly impressed. I am using it with the Libre 1 reader so no alarms. It is currently reading about 1.5 mmols below fingerprick but it started out not too bad so I am not sure it is going to last the distance and I am using far too many test strips to double check because it shows me in the red far more than I am and I have sadly lost some confidence in the system which is also causing me to use extra test strips.

Starting to wonder if I should take a break from Libre for a week or two to get my perspective back. I hate the first day or two without it as you feel so vulnerable but I might come back to it more appreciative rather than resentful as I am feeling at the moment. Got a consultant tel appt coming up later this month so may wait until after that to go back to full time finger pricking.

Pleased you are getting on better and your new sensor has made it to full term with no problems. Hope your next ones are similarly good'uns!

I wouldn't let this not so good experience put you off, as you have had many more good experiences with your libre.
I have seen that dexcom has made their dexcom one ,cgm available to the NHS at a very reduced price , I may be cheeky at my next appointment with my diabetes team in November and ask to give it a try .

 

[rebrascora]

Go for it!.... Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Mentally these relatively minor experiences have affected my outlook more than I would have expected, so I think it would probably do me good to have a break for a week or two. I did agree that with my consultant when he prescribed Libre.... ie that I could talk a break from it when I needed to and in the early days I did., but now I feel I maybe need to for different reasons... not because I am overwhelmed by the data or feel that it was spying on me (no escape from the numbers etc) but just need to fully appreciate how great it is compared to finger pricking. "Absence makes the heart grow fonder" as they say!