Libre 2 Accuracy issues - help?

Status
Not open for further replies.

WoogieBoogie

Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1.5 LADA
Hi
I recently finished a free trial of the libre 2 sensor and was impressed - all went well. I've now been prescribed them on the NHS and here is where my problems begin

Sensor 1 I had to abort as was getting spuriously low readings - false hypo alarms at night. Abbot are replacing.

Sensor 2 I've had one since yesterday. This seems to be consistently high eg my accucheck meter is showing 6.1 and the sensor is 8.3; miles outside the expected /allowed error margin

For any longer term users... is the libre particularly sensitive to positioning on the back /side of arm? Am I just unlucky with these two sensors. Certainly it's dampened my initial excitement of having real time insights
 
Hi @WoogieBoogie
Have you taken the known limitations of CGMs into consideration?
For example, is it possible the spurious hypo alarms at night could be compression lows?
Or taken into consideration that many of us find a new sensor can take up to 48 hours to “bed in” during which time, the readings can be out by a fair way.
CGMs are amazing pieces of kit but only if you understand their limitation. Sadly, Abbott and HCPs tend not to share these limitations. However, they are repeated many many times on the forum.
 
Yep I'm aware of limitations but the sensors are meant have a defined error tolerance. As you say though I'll hang fire for a couple of days and see whether settles down. Thanks for the info - appreciated
 
Ps Thanks for the note on compression lows. Just looked that up and was completely unaware of pressure anomalies!
 
Gi @WoogieBoogie. I try and apply a sensor a minimum of 12 hours before its activated, then give another 12-24 hours, occasionally checking with a finger prick before deciding whether the readings are accurate enough or not. Also, its worth remembering that the sensor is around 10-15 mins behind the finger prick so you need to take that into consideration.

Other than that, its a great thing to have and i'd be lost without the sensor now.
 
That's a good idea. Didn't think to attach it but not activate for a day. Great idea
 
Yep I'm aware of limitations but the sensors are meant have a defined error tolerance. As you say though I'll hang fire for a couple of days and see whether settles down. Thanks for the info - appreciated
Are you aware that the "error tolerance" is only for "normal" levels and that CGMs have a tendency to be more inaccurate when high or low?
As I mentioned, these limitations are not mentioned by Abbott (or any other CGM manufacturer) but are repeated many times on the forum.
You may find some useful information if you use the Search function at the top of every page and search for "Libre". I am sure there are more limitations than those I have already mentioned here.
 
its worth remembering that the sensor is around 10-15 mins behind the finger prick so you need to take that into consideration.
The BG values reported by Libre are NOT 10 to 15 minutes behind.
The algorithm used to convert Interstitial Fluid readings to BG take this into consideration.
 
Are you aware that the "error tolerance" is only for "normal" levels and that CGMs have a tendency to be more inaccurate when high or low?
As I mentioned, these limitations are not mentioned by Abbott (or any other CGM manufacturer) but are repeated many times on the forum.
You may find some useful information if you use the Search function at the top of every page and search for "Libre". I am sure there are more limitations than those I have already mentioned here.
Excellent. Will check it out. I guess not in Abbots interest to dent confidence. Thanks again
 
The BG values reported by Libre are NOT 10 to 15 minutes behind.
The algorithm used to convert Interstitial Fluid readings to BG take this into consideration.
Often incorrectly. So if you eat and go for a walk, it incorrectly extrapolates what your bs would be and then realises it is incorrect and redraws the graph. To be honest, i think it would be better to just give the readings.
 
Will be interesting to see whether Libre 3 sees any improvement although I assumed algos same? Anyone know when Libre 3 will supersede 2. I guess ultimately depends on cost for NHS /business decision by Abbot to eventually deprecate older one
 
Hi
I recently finished a free trial of the libre 2 sensor and was impressed - all went well. I've now been prescribed them on the NHS and here is where my problems begin

Sensor 1 I had to abort as was getting spuriously low readings - false hypo alarms at night. Abbot are replacing.

Sensor 2 I've had one since yesterday. This seems to be consistently high eg my accucheck meter is showing 6.1 and the sensor is 8.3; miles outside the expected /allowed error margin

For any longer term users... is the libre particularly sensitive to positioning on the back /side of arm? Am I just unlucky with these two sensors. Certainly it's dampened my initial excitement of having real time insights
Hello, are you suitably hydrated? This could affect osmolarity with interstitial fluid.
 
Yes, but as a result of that algorithm, there are times when your Libre reading can be 30 mins behind actual BG. Ie when rate of change is happening or BG levels are completely changing direction.

When levels are just tootling along nicely and reasonably stable and in range, the algorithm predicts quite nicely what your BG is likely to be by extrapolating forward the 15 mins, but when levels are changing fast then all bets are off and Libre will very easily exaggerate both lows and highs. I know you know this @helli but just wanting to clarify for others. As a result, the key thing to remember is that you should only really compare Libre with a finger prick when your levels are pretty stable and not when there are significant factors in your system causing them to change .... ie you injected insulin recently or ate recently.... or you are experiencing Foot on the Floor syndrome/Dawn Phenomenon on a morning or during/after exercise.
This is why it is so important to check with a finger prick following a hypo treatment rather than rely on Libre, because Libre will almost always show your levels continuing to drop after 15 mins because it is continuing to extrapolate the downwards trend whereas your BG levels will usually have come back up after 15 mins. If you go by the Libre in this situation, you will almost always end up double treating a hypo that doesn't need it and end up high and then you are on "the rollercoaster".

So as @helli says in order to get the most from Libre you have to understand it's limitations, including compression lows and how that algorithm extrapolation works to make up the lag on interstitial fluid and when that extrapolation makes it unreliable and for how long (usually 30-45mins) for it to catch up in that situation. And when it is reasonable to assess it's accuracy against a finger prick. I always wait until my levels are stable for about an hour before I do a comparison although these days I rarely finger prick because Libre works incredibly well for me, now I understand it...... and have learned not to lie on it in my sleep 🙄 or try to (accidentally) scrub it off in the shower! o_O or walk into door jambs!!

The stock response from Abbott is to replace the sensor making people believe the sensors are unreliable, but in my experience, the sensor is rarely the problem. Problems with the LibreLink app, their phone in general and people's understanding/expectation and the sensor coming loose due to getting caught on a variety of things or occasionally the adhesive failing, are the most common problems and unfortunately the customer services staff are not capable of comprehensively dealing with these issues, so they send another sensor out which I believe are the cheapest part of the system, so the easiest option for Abbott. There are however some people whose body chemistry does not get along with the Libre and these people may be better with a different system like the Dexcom.
Not saying the sensors never fail, but mostly failure is due to other issues.
 
The BG values reported by Libre are NOT 10 to 15 minutes behind.
The algorithm used to convert Interstitial Fluid readings to BG take this into consideration.
This was what was told to me by the DSN when i first had the libre.
 
When levels are just tootling along nicely and reasonably stable and in range, the algorithm predicts quite nicely what your BG is likely to be by extrapolating forward the 15 mins, but when levels are changing fast then all bets are off and Libre will very easily exaggerate both lows and highs. I know you know this @helli but just wanting to clarify for others. As a result, the key thing to remember is that you should only really compare Libre with a finger prick when your levels are pretty stable and not when there are significant factors in your system causing them to change
This is what i meant but the DSN i had put it in a different way. Thanks @rebrascora for saying it better than i did
 
Just out of curiosity I just did a comparison as my levels have been pretty stable for the last hour....
18.41 Libre 5.2
18.56 Libre 4.4 after which I drank quite a milky coffee...
1955 Libre 5.6..... Finger prick BG 5.6.... with a Caresens BG meter, rather than the Libre reader.

Not often that they are both totally spot on but nice when it happens!

I should also say that I use the reader rather than the LiibreLink app on a phone and I find it gives me much more consistency for me. I recently had a spell of using the LibreLink and I am very happy to be back to a reader now, even though it doesn't give me the full CGM that the recent LibreLink update has provided for phone users and I have to scan with it still.... scanning is much quicker and easier than it was with the phone and the reader is small and convenient and will double as a BG and Blood Ketone meter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top