Levemir v/s Tresiba

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Purls of Wisdom

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
Hello fellow forum members,

Has anyone with T1 ever had to change from Levemir to Tresiba, by choice or not?

I have had a brainwave that Tresiba, being the longer acting insulin, might sort some of my issues. I would like to weigh out my options before taking the plunge. So, please share your experiences on this portal.

Much appreciated. ❤️
 
Hi @Purls of Wisdom 🙂 What issues do you have?
I am constantly dwindling between sharp hypers and multiple daily hypos and that's after a year since diagnosis. I just can not get my head around numbers, be it my BGs, Basal or Bolus rates and ratios.
Is the Levemir running out? @Amity Island uses Tresiba, I think.
I used to wake up in <4mmol/L. Took a Basal reduction of 1u from last week. Now I am staying well above the average overnight and waking up to horribly high readings. What am I doing wrong? Or what ever I am doing is not working.

And the self beating continues ... ...
 
Hello fellow forum members,

Has anyone with T1 ever had to change from Levemir to Tresiba, by choice or not?

I have had a brainwave that Tresiba, being the longer acting insulin, might sort some of my issues. I would like to weigh out my options before taking the plunge. So, please share your experiences on this portal.

Much appreciated. ❤️
I had to change from lantus (have also tried levemir) to tresiba, as my Dr was convinced it would sort my problems (5pm hypos), it made them so much worse. I needed less insulin then not more. I was already taking my lantus at 6pm so it would be running out at 5pm. The tresiba has such a long profile that it gave more insulin working when I needed even less working and made me have many more 5pm hypos.

Honestly I hated it, didn’t suit me whatsoever, and took me ages to convince the dr at the time of that.
 
I use Tresiba and don’t like it at all.

If you reduce it to try and stop night hypos you end up with not enough basal during the day.

With Levemir at least you can adjust it every 12 hours and Tresiba lasts 40 hours so every dose is topping up the last dose
 
I am constantly dwindling between sharp hypers and multiple daily hypos and that's after a year since diagnosis. I just can not get my head around numbers, be it my BGs, Basal or Bolus rates and ratios.

I used to wake up in <4mmol/L. Took a Basal reduction of 1u from last week. Now I am staying well above the average overnight and waking up to horribly high readings. What am I doing wrong? Or what ever I am doing is not working.

And the self beating continues ... ...

Don’t blame yourself. Sometimes diabetes can be a total pig. It’s not just you. I find basal a very fine balancing point. Could you get a half unit pen and add back half a unit of basal to try to get somewhere between below 4 and very high?
 
I am constantly dwindling between sharp hypers and multiple daily hypos and that's after a year since diagnosis. I just can not get my head around numbers, be it my BGs, Basal or Bolus rates and ratios.

I used to wake up in <4mmol/L. Took a Basal reduction of 1u from last week. Now I am staying well above the average overnight and waking up to horribly high readings. What am I doing wrong? Or what ever I am doing is not working.

And the self beating continues ... ...
Hi,

Have you tried some basal testing to establish what is happening in the background, which can also highlight bolus and food issues? If so what did you find out?
 
Have you been on a DAFNE course. If not badger your nurse to put your name down for one. The tutors on the course will go through your results with you and be able to recommend adjustments to the Levemir that will work better or that Tresiba or some other basal might be more helpful. Sometimes even adjusting the time you take your Levemir can make a big difference depending upon the problem. Or perhaps you might be more comfortable with a mixed insulin, where you just inject twice a day and have regular set meals. It is the "old fashioned" insulin regime but some people like the old fashioned stuff (doesn't mean to say it is bad.... I prefer a manual car to an automatic for instance) and if you are struggling to cope with the maths then that might take a lot of the strain out of it for you. I really wonder if your DSN is not as supportive as they could be. I know they are seriously overloaded with work at the diabetes clinics at the moment but you clearly need support and they should be providing it and discussing options with you.

Personally I would hate Tresiba and I very much doubt it would work for me, but there are people who find it great. To a certain extent it depends on your basal needs. If you need roughly the same day and night then Tresiba is a good choice. Personally I have a huge disparity between how much Levemir I need during the day and almost/often none at night, so I would inject almost no basal insulin so that I didn't hypo at night and then have to inject massive amounts of corrections through the day to keep me from going too high.

What are your current Levemir doses?
 
Not just the same amount day and night but also the same amount every day.
My basal needs have always varied from day to day due to the exercise I do so, like you, I would hate Tresiba.

Yes, mine too. I tweak my Levemir several times a week most weeks on a day by day (well actually mostly night by night) basis. Tresiba simply would not allow that adjustment and I would end up hypo far more but be like a pin cushion through the day. It really is about horses for courses though and finding what works best for the individual and perhaps trying a mixed insulin for Purl could be the answer or perhaps Tresiba might work well for her if she doesn't do much exercise and has a fairly regular routine.
 
I had to change from lantus (have also tried levemir) to tresiba, as my Dr was convinced it would sort my problems (5pm hypos), it made them so much worse. I needed less insulin then not more. I was already taking my lantus at 6pm so it would be running out at 5pm. The tresiba has such a long profile that it gave more insulin working when I needed even less working and made me have many more 5pm hypos.

Honestly I hated it, didn’t suit me whatsoever, and took me ages to convince the dr at the time of that.
My problem is that nothing is straight forward. My readings can be all over the place within the same day. It is beyond my imagination that how many times I can tweak the insulin? It is like sending mixed messages to my body.

The DSN offered Humalog (sp) but I refused on 2 points. Firstly, I did not know much about it and secondly I felt that she was sending mixed messages, kind of discouraging me from taking up the offer.

What is one supposed to do?
 
Hi,

Have you tried some basal testing to establish what is happening in the background, which can also highlight bolus and food issues? If so what did you find
Yes, I did. Over 3 nights. Three of the pm /am readings could not be different than each other.

Seeing my all night hyper numbers, i started taking 1 extra unit of levemir at night time. Still no satisfactory outcome.

Moved down by 1u cos I was waking up to almost hypo in the early hours. In fact 14u gave me hypos and 13u hypers. No half unit pens at my disposal.

The DSN is going to call me on Tuesday. Followed by a telephonic appointment with the Consultant in May. So fingers and toes crossed.
 
Moved down by 1u cos I was waking up to almost hypo in the early hours. In fact 14u gave me hypos and 13u hypers. No half unit pens at my disposal.
Why not get a half unit pen and try 13.5u?
 
Have you been on a DAFNE course. If not badger your nurse to put your name down for one.
if only.
The tutors on the course will go through your results with you and be able to recommend adjustments to the Levemir that will work better or that Tresiba or some other basal might be more helpful.
The DSN has already told me that DAFNE is going to do nothing for me. I have been already explained everything, which the course is supposed to.
Sometimes even adjusting the time you take your Levemir can make a big difference depending upon the problem. Or perhaps you might be more comfortable with a mixed insulin, where you just inject twice a day and have regular set meals. It is the "old fashioned" insulin regime but some people like the old fashioned stuff (doesn't mean to say it is bad.... I prefer a manual car to an automatic for instance) and if you are struggling to cope with the maths then that might take a lot of the strain out of it for you.
in your opinion, what are the best times to take Basal and Bolus injections? I am willing to try everything. According to Dr Bernstein, morning and night time should be 8½ hours apart in oder to tackle Dawn Phenomenon. I am following his advice these days.
I really wonder if your DSN is not as supportive as they could be. I know they are seriously overloaded with work at the diabetes clinics at the moment but you clearly need support and they should be providing it and discussing options with you.
There came a time when I started avoiding contacting the Grey Clinic. I strongly felt that this forum was my better option. I was treated with kindness and apathy at least.
Personally I would hate Tresiba and I very much doubt it would work for me, but there are people who find it great. To a certain extent it depends on your basal needs. If you need roughly the same day and night then Tresiba is a good choice. Personally I have a huge disparity between how much Levemir I need during the day and almost/often none at night, so I would inject almost no basal insulin so that I didn't hypo at night and then have to inject massive amounts of corrections through the day to keep me from going too high.

What are your current Levemir doses?
I take 14u Levemir before breakfast and 13u before bed time.

My correction doses have mind of their own.

The meal time ratios stayed 1:10 for a long time. Only now I have started to change it to almost 1:5+.
Nothing seems to be working for me. If I am not hyper then I am hypo. My BG average is still 10mmol/L, which I am not too happy about as it is, but I am hardly at those readings, forget getting them <8. It is laughable though. I have seen my time in range being 0%.

Honestly speaking, I have every reason to worry.
 
Ask who? GP point blankly refuses to deal with insulin related issues and DSN is hard to get hold of.
Make a written request to GP and if that fails then leave a voicemail with dsn
 
Presuming your GP is prescribing them, your GP. It's a simple thing to change so ought to be easily done. If your GP surgery has a pharmacist you might try asking them (that worked for me though I'm sure my GP would have done it too).
Thanks. Called the GP surgery and asked for the half unit pens. The surgery nurse suggested to ask the DSN. At least things are on the move.

I understand it is only the Basal insulin which requires 0.5 units. You may think that I am a complete idiot who is wired to the moon. In truth, this is how this ailment has effected me.

I have also requested the nurse to put my name down for the DAFNE course. She told me that there was a 2 years' waiting list, 6 months ago.
 
The DSN has already told me that DAFNE is going to do nothing for me. I have been already explained everything, which the course is supposed to.
Put it in writing that you are struggling with your diabetes management and would like a referral onto a DAFNE (Dose Adjustment For Normal Eating) course and send a copy to your GP and a copy to your Consultant. Your DSN has no right to exclude you from an education course because he/she feels it will not help you.
in your opinion, what are the best times to take Basal and Bolus injections? I am willing to try everything. According to Dr Bernstein, morning and night time should be 8½ hours apart in oder to tackle Dawn Phenomenon. I am following his advice these days.
There is no "best time" to take basal and bolus insulin, only what is best for your body. You have to experiment to find what works for you. That involves keeping records and spending some time going through them to figure it out. Once you figure it out, then you may need a bit of tweaking every now and then but mostly you find a routine which works well most of the time for your body and the insulin you use and the food you eat.
For me, that is injecting my morning basal and breakfast bolus (usually + 1-2 units) as soon as I wake up and before I get out of bed. Usually around 7am but if I wake up earlier and I am getting up then it might be 6am or if I have a lie in it might be 8 or even 9am. My evening basal is usually before bed but sometimes I go through spells where my levels start to drift upwards on a night and I need to take it at 7 or 8pm instead of the usual 11pm-12midnight. My evening basal dose needs regular tweaking depending upon what I have done during the day, so a mostly sedentary day will mean I need 1-2 units more at night, a very active day will mean less. 2 physically active days in a row and I don't need any evening basal..... but my average evening dose is 2-3units so dropping to zero isn't a massive drop.

I need about 45mins prebolus time with Fiasp before my usual yoghurt and berries low carb breakfast and 10-20 mins at other times of day. If my levels are 8 or above when I inject I will need to wait longer, if they are in the 4s I will need to wait less time or can sometimes eat straight away.

These timings and adjustments work well for me but it has taken me 4 years to understand how my body and insulin works and fine tune this regime to fit. I can almost guarantee that it will not work for your body, because you eat different food and have a different gut biome and metabolism and different lifestyle and different insulin.

I have no idea what you mean about Dr Bernstein suggesting that morning and evening doses being 8.5 hours apart although if you mean 8.5 hours between evening Levemir and morning, I suppose that is pretty much what I do.... when I need an evening dose, but often I don't need any evening basal. Exercise the previous day takes care of Dawn Phenomenon for me and I inject the +1-5-2 units of bolus insulin mentioned above before I get out of bed to deal with Foot on the Floor Syndrome.

I have watched the occasional You Tube video by Dr Bernstein and it is interesting.... and he is very impressive, but I "follow" what my body tells me rather than anybody else.... and that includes my consultant. I will bounce thoughts and ideas off my consultant but ultimately I make the decisions because I have to live with my diabetes and I know it and my lifestyle far better than he does. I think it is dangerous to take guidance from any one person, which is why this forum works so well, because it gives you an array of answers to choose from and then you experiment to find what works for you personally. It is one of the reasons I didn't offer to mentor you a month or so ago when you were asking. Discussing things on the open forum is where you have checks and balances to ensure that if I say something incorrect, someone else will spot it and correct me or say "that might work for you but it could be dangerous for someone else to try".
Taking advice from a range of sources and then figuring out if it will work for you is always better than just following one person's advice.

I take 14u Levemir before breakfast and 13u before bed time.
If these doses keep your levels relatively steady in the absence of food, day and night (I note you only mention overnight basal testing... which is really only half the picture and I assure you you will not starve if you skip a meal once a day to test daytime levels), then Tresiba may well be a good choice for you BUT I very much doubt it will solve your diabetes management issues. Learning about how your body works will.... and DAFNE will help you to understand that.

I understand it is only the Basal insulin which requires 0.5 units. You may think that I am a complete idiot who is wired to the moon. In truth, this is how this ailment has effected me.
Good that you are enquiring about a half unit pen but I don't understand your comment about only basal insulin needing it. I find half unit pens useful for bolus and basal and use the half unit option regularly. One of the main benefits of these pens though is that they tell you roughly how long ago your last dose was and how much you injected. This is incredibly useful for those "Did I or Didn't I" inject my insulin before this meal or before bed or whatever. After a while injecting becomes so automatic, I can do it whilst I am half asleep (if my high alarm wakes me in the night) and I can be back to deep sleep in minutes afterwards and not even need to put the light on and plenty of times I decide on a dose and then have a change of heart and add a bit more or less and then 5 mins later when I come to record it on my Libre reader I can't remember which dose I settled on in the end, but my Novo Pen Echo has it recorded, so it is a function that I use regularly.... and perhaps it is partl;y old age that I forget what I decided or if I injected when I got my pen case out or if I got distracted by that phone call and actually didn't inject as intended. I doubt I am alone in having these "senior" moments and being able to check the pen and see what I did really helps me keep on the straight and narrow..... Especially the time I injected 24 units of Fiasp before I got out of bed instead of 24 units of Levemir one morning!! 😱 Then I had to inject the 24 unts of Levemir correctly and then start eating carbs to soak up the Fiasp like my life depended on it. 🙄.... which of course it did! o_O.

Anyway, I am very aware that I have typed too much as usual. 🙄 Hopefully you will be able to follow most of my ramblings. If you have any questions, just ask.

If you want to post some photos of your Libre showing particular problems then do so, but first and foremost, you need to establish that your basal dose is correct during the day as well as the night, so perhaps do some basal testing as your basal dose is key to everything else making sense.... and log as much info on Libre as you can at least for the time being whilst you are having problems.
Keep asking for a DAFNE course and put it in writing to make it difficult for them to say "NO" and ask for a written explanation of why they will not refer you onto it if they keep saying "NO" Make it easier for them to just say YES and chase it up if you don't hear anything afterwards.
Focus on just one aspect of your diabetes at a time. So basal first. Get that reasonably well sorted and maybe take at least a week just to work on that and just go through the motions with everything else and then look at individual meal times and ratios, maybe one week to get breakfast sorted and then next week lunch and then evening meal. Then move on to working out corrections. Then move on to timing of your bolus doses. Gradually once you start to get things ironed out a bit, you will start to not just see the wood for the trees but be able to identify the species of tree. You need to approach it slowly and systematically though.
 
@Purls of Wisdom to expands a little on what @rebrascora wrote about basal testing (yes, there is a lot to it), the reason why it is useful to do a basal test during the day as well as during the night is that our basal needs often vary between the day and night. And, confusingly, we are all different. Some may need more during the night and some may need more during the day. The great thing about Levemir (especially compared to Tresiba) is that you can take different mount sof basal for the day and night. I think you mentioned that you spend your days running around after children. If that is the case, it is very likely you may need less during the day. You may even find you need different doses when you have days off because you are not running around as much - I used to have a weekend and a week day dose. This is not possible with Tresiba because takes 3 or 4 days for a change to take effect.

This is a very longwinded way of agreeing with rebrascora to do a day time basal test so you can work out what your morning Levemir dose should be. It is very unusual for it to be the same as your night time dose.
 
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