Just a quick question regarding cholesterol

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Whilst not convinced about sat fat debate, so don't avoid it nor go overboard with it.

Do know one thing & that is some foods can reduce cholesterol, example foods like wholegrain oats seeds & nuts, so always start day with oats then incorporate other items throughout. Seems to work as my cholesterol is very good & has been since testing began, also exercise is helpful to I'm lead to believe.
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
It’s always a tricky sell when the ideal outcome for the person taking the tablets is that nothing happens.
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If you apply the same argument to seatbelts in cars, most journeys don't end in a crash where you're glad you've worn your seatbelt, you just put it on every time and hope that you don't need it!
But saying that, I was offered statins and declined, mostly because I wasn't expecting to be offered them and I don't want to be taking more pills (and, as with all medication, a minority of people get side effects), but it's not a strong argument, it's like me not wearing a seatbelt because it doesn't match my blouse.
I will probably say yes to them at my next medicine review, when the GP offers them again.
 
AndBreathe said:
Well, I think it noteworthy that in participating in the research study I had already had an ECG, Echocardiogram, Stress Exercise Test, including gas exchanges, CT scans, including an assessment of any cardiac calcium deposits present, MRI and a Cardiac MRI Adenosine Stress Test, along with a raft of bloods, including various cardiac tests and enzymes. That seemed like a fairly decent cardiac MOT to me.

So, in terms of NICE Guidelines, they firstly state advice should be personal. I would rather have feedback based on personal and clinically accepted data that a check box on a decision tree based on a single diagnosis, age and total cholesterol figure.

Of course, you are more than welcome to hold your own view. Clearly mine differs from yours, which isn't wholly unusual.
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As you say, we each have our own views.
My preference is to keep cholesterol down, and hopefully prevent any issues arising.
Obviously, one can always wait until they fail the MOT, and have remedial work undertaken then.
 
nonethewiser said:
Whilst not convinced about sat fat debate, so don't avoid it nor go overboard with it.

Do know one thing & that is some foods can reduce cholesterol, example foods like wholegrain oats seeds & nuts, so always start day with oats then incorporate other items throughout. Seems to work as my cholesterol is very good & has been since testing began, also exercise is helpful to I'm lead to believe.
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There are a fair amount of reviews of literature/research (By medical/science folk) that are quite hard to read if you're not medical (They delve into proteins and receptors and all that stuff), but it does seem to be a mass of contradictions and doesn't really back up the diet-heart thing. Whilst there's no doubt that Sat Fat does raise LDL (And Mono/Poly have the opposite effect, plus losing weight raises LDL for a while) the link between LDL and CVD doesn't seem clear cut, as many people with high LDL don't get get problems, and many people with low LDL do have problems. Some research hints that the issue may be more to do with poor metabolic health (Something a lot of us T2s have) leading to LDL particles carrying 'bad' stuff around that ends up in the artery walls as receptors don't know what to do with.

I'm still sticking to the guidelines, myself - no oats as they raise BG, but plenty of nuts and peanut butter and virtually no red meat/animal fats. Apart from chicken skin.
 
harbottle said:
There are a fair amount of reviews of literature/research (By medical/science folk) that are quite hard to read if you're not medical (They delve into proteins and receptors and all that stuff), but it does seem to be a mass of contradictions and doesn't really back up the diet-heart thing. Whilst there's no doubt that Sat Fat does raise LDL (And Mono/Poly have the opposite effect, plus losing weight raises LDL for a while) the link between LDL and CVD doesn't seem clear cut, as many people with high LDL don't get get problems, and many people with low LDL do have problems. Some research hints that the issue may be more to do with poor metabolic health (Something a lot of us T2s have) leading to LDL particles carrying 'bad' stuff around that ends up in the artery walls as receptors don't know what to do with.

I'm still sticking to the guidelines, myself - no oats as they raise BG, but plenty of nuts and peanut butter and virtually no red meat/animal fats. Apart from chicken skin.
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Can't be bothered to read in depth medical literature if honest, just stick with info from reliable sources such as BHF.

Anyway kinda think you know when something is good or bad for you, that's my thoughts on subject.
 
nonethewiser said:
Can't be bothered to read in depth medical literature if honest, just stick with info from reliable sources such as BHF.

Anyway kinda think you know when something is good or bad for you, that's my thoughts on subject.
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Note that the BHF recommends a Balanced Diet with 'plenty of starchy foods'. I'm not sure I trust that advice.
 
DaveB said:
Note that the BHF recommends a Balanced Diet with 'plenty of starchy foods'. I'm not sure I trust that advice.
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Nothing wrong with starchy food for 90% or the population, and then many diabetics are ok with a bit of selection.
 
travellor said:
As you say, we each have our own views.
My preference is to keep cholesterol down, and hopefully prevent any issues arising.
Obviously, one can always wait until they fail the MOT, and have remedial work undertaken then.
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On that tack, I could suggest I've had the full inspection and report, suggesting I look to be OK for the time being. If not before, I am due a repeat in 4 years from now. Let's face it, I could be gone from something wholly unconnected before then.

I never say never, and in this life nothing is guaranteed, whether that be I'll be fine crossing the road or that a statin can save any individual from a CV event. We each set our risk dials and live with or die from the consequences. That's called life.
 
AndBreathe said:
On that tack, I could suggest I've had the full inspection and report, suggesting I look to be OK for the time being. If not before, I am due a repeat in 4 years from now. Let's face it, I could be gone from something wholly unconnected before then.

I never say never, and in this life nothing is guaranteed, whether that be I'll be fine crossing the road or that a statin can save any individual from a CV event. We each set our risk dials and live with or die from the consequences. That's called life.
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True.
But for the next four years I'd still cross on a green light, or at least look left and right.
Even though I have a classic car that is MOT exempt, it could pass today, and fail tomorrow. As to what could fail if I left it five years......

I set my "risk dials" to quite extreme, (some have said "moronic") but only on events I can actually pretend to myself I have some control of.

I can control my heart rate, I can control my BP, I can't really pretend I can control little furry arteries though, even to myself.
I call that reality.

(As to guaranteed, death and taxes!)

At least the op knows where we are both coming from, and can balance our answers.
 
travellor said:
Nothing wrong with starchy food for 90% or the population, and then many diabetics are ok with a bit of selection.
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Perhaps there is some correlation between that 90% and the high degree of obesity in the population 🙂
 
nonethewiser said:
Do know one thing & that is some foods can reduce cholesterol, example foods like wholegrain oats seeds & nuts, so always start day with oats then incorporate other items throughout. Seems to work as my cholesterol is very good & has been since testing began, also exercise is helpful to I'm lead to believe.
Click to expand...
I'm a hi-fibre, lots of ex kind of person, but my cholesterol went up after I cut out alcohol...go figure. o_O :confused: I should be taking statins, but always end up with an unpleasant side effect. I need to ring my GP and switch to a different one...
 
Bloden said:
I'm a hi-fibre, lots of ex kind of person, but my cholesterol went up after I cut out alcohol...go figure. o_O :confused: I should be taking statins, but always end up with an unpleasant side effect. I need to ring my GP and switch to a different one...
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Stange why cutting out alcohol would cause rise.

Mainly drink wine & would like to think that helps with cholesterol, who knows?

Only ever took 1 statin & that was Atorvastatin, took it for 3 months no side effects, maybe worth trying if not done so already.
 
travellor said:
....

I can control my heart rate, I can control my BP, I can't really pretend I can control little furry arteries though, even to myself.
I call that reality.
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Yes, but I guess the difference is I know that I had virtually no arterial plaque in June 21.

(My last contribution to this predictable spat.)

My apologies to you @Gwynn for derailing your thread.
 
AndBreathe said:
Yes, but I guess the difference is I know that I had virtually no arterial plaque in June 21.

(My last contribution to this predictable spat.)

My apologies to you @Gwynn for derailing your thread.
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To be honest, as a diabetic, I thought looking at peripheral arterial disease, or peripheral vascular disease would be a consideration before he voiced his opinion, as high cholesterol may not just be a cardiac issue.

Are we derailing the thread?
The question is about high cholesterol, and living with it, or trying to reduce it and avoid the possibility of complications.
And, as you say, we all set our risk dials differently.
Both options can be discussed, although I'm sure we are probably getting boring now.
 
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AndBreathe said:
Yes, but I guess the difference is I know that I had virtually no arterial plaque in June 21.

(My last contribution to this predictable spat.)

My apologies to you @Gwynn for derailing your thread.
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Actually this is all very interesting and informative. Thanks
 
Getting opinions about this kind of thing from unqualified message board posters seems to me to be a pretty useless undertaking, particularly since it is so easy these days to find the consensus assessments of actual experts.

Ditto for eg Youtube videos etc, mainly, except where the people have actual qualifications, aren't quacks and can present the research engagingly, like this guy:


A nice overview of the actual benefits of LDL (really, apoB) reduction - the lower the better, the longer the better. And relative vs absolute risk reductions - opinions like the-RRR-is-big-but-the-ARR-is-tiny (eg, the usual Internet discussion of the Hope3 trial, as repeated upthread) are useless if you don't take into account the size of the reduction and more importantly the time horizon.
 
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