Jamie Oliver's sugar tax

[Northerner]

I'm getting a bit tired of this campaign already, in particular the way the media are muddying the waters about the relationship between sugar and diabetes, and also diabetes and children. Just when you thought that perhaps the message was becoming slightly clearer that sugar doesn't cause diabetes, and that it certainly doesn't have anything to do with diabetes in children, Jamie steps in with this single issue panacea. 😡

What do others think? I do agree that fizzy drinks marketed at children should not contain the excessive amounts of sugar they do, but taxing them will do little to change attitudes, I think, it will just make hypo treatments more expensive! 🙄

 

[Worcester_Matt]

The whole debate yesterday made me incredibly angry. I need to sit down and properly read through/watch Jamie Oliver's evidence to the Select Committee, but taxing your way to better health is such a nonsense idea. It's the same with the minimum price for alcohol. All it does it make certain goods more expensive for the poor. It doesn't actually address the root cause of the problem you're trying to solve. If the Government was serious about producing a healthy society they'd invest properly in the NHS, protect playgrounds and play facilities for children and invest properly in sports and physical education. I'm certainly no expert, but the reality of public health is that it is vastly more complex than simply taxing sugary drinks more. One thought occurred to me yesterday. Generally our society was healthier 50 years ago. But the culture of society is so different now to 50 years ago. The way parents work is different, living standards are different, food costs are different, expectations and advertising are different, food standards are different, and society is far less safe (or perceived to be far less safe) for children than it was 50 years ago.

Your point about making hypo remedies more expensive is one thing that really made me angry. What goes along with it, is the moral censure that the tax would attribute. Taxes on smoking and alcohol are known as "sin taxes", and the tax on sugar would be lumped into the same category. There are people who rely on sugary drinks to keep them alive, in extreme circumstances. Labelling that as a "sin" is just appalling.

Incidentally, Jamie Oliver also gave evidence to the APPG on Diabetes. What makes him an expert on diabetes is far beyond me! This moral crusade he has going doesn't stop him selling coke etc in his restaurants either.

 

[grovesy]

During the time he was talking Diabetes Uk were tweeting every few minutes.

 

[robert@fm]

50 years ago, the arrival of McDonalds in the UK was still ten years away. I wonder if that has anything to do with the present situation.

 

[Northerner]

From the DUK news section. it seems he is aware of Type 1 hypo treatments (I wonder if anyone explained to him that there are even more Type 2s on insulin?)

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us/News/Jamie-Oliver-meets-with-Diabetes-UK-at-Parliament/

 

[TED THE BEAR]

50 years ago, the arrival of McDonalds in the UK was still ten years away. I wonder if that has anything to do with the present situation.

I have to agree with this. I think a lot of fast food is a problem. Fine maybe in moderation, but a lot of people seem to use them regularly

 

[Northerner]

I have to agree with this. I think a lot of fast food is a problem. Fine maybe in moderation, but a lot of people seem to use them regularly

I think it's not just fast food, but processed food in general. When I was a kid (I'm 57) the only processed food was (I believe) fish fingers! I do remember Wimpy around that time though, so hamburgers were around but without the massive marketing that came with Mcdonalds etc. As for sugary drinks - we had those in the '60s, a pop wagon used to deliver it in quart bottles twice a week 😱 I also used to eat bread and dripping sprinkled with salt and weetabix piled high with sugar. In general though, I think we were, by necessity, a lot more active - I walked to school and played outside every day. You might see one or two overweight children out of every 50, it wasn't the norm. No computer games, a fraction of the number of cars, only telephone boxes (we got our first phone in 1972), Practically all home cooking with fresh ingredients (no fridges - a woman up the road had a fridge with a small freezer compartment and we used to go and knock on her door and she'd give us a little ice lolly 🙂). Nostalgia over!

 

[Amigo]

That brought back so many memories northerner, like a walk down memory lane! 🙂

Jamie Oliver gets so much stick and I accept he brings a lot of it on himself. We still have medics who struggle to understand diabetes so maybe a restaurateur can be forgiven just a little. His intentions are actually good though his approach rather sanctimonious.

I'll never forget the abuse he received in the States when he visited WV and Huntington which is claimed to be a 'diabetes hot spot'. His desperate attempt to educate the school authorities into not feeding the kids junk after they claimed pizza for breakfast was ok because it contained tomatoes. I can remember reading posts from the parents of diabetic children at that time in the area who supported his campaign because the school authorities were telling them they weren't obliged to disclose the 'nutritional content of the school meals!' A have a friend who lives there who said he went through hell and cried with frustration because the children couldn't even recognise vegetables in their natural form. And unfortunately we now seem to be heading down the same path with the Sunny Delight generation for whom lunch is a something from a shop bag.

I can appreciate the criticisms but somewhere in this I feel that he is trying to make a positive difference.
There is however confusion and misunderstanding around sugar and diabetes which he'll continue to lose credibility on if he doesn't make himself more aware.

 

[Northerner]

The reaction to him in the US was horrific! 😱 I have a lot of time for him, I'm just a bit annoyed at all this attention being given to sugar - not just by him, but by all sorts of people who seem to think it's the sole cause of diabetes and obesity.

 

[trophywench]

LOL - years ago when two of our grandkids - the two younger ones of No 1 daughter = chef - were little, they went on holidays to their other Grandmas's static caravan at Wells Next the Sea, as usual. When taking the dogs for a walk that evening on one of the usual routes, Neil their dad took a border fork. Why Daddy? Wait and see!

On the way back, along the edge of a particular field Daddy stopped, produced a carrier bag, and started to dig up .... some spuds. What are those? Potatoes of course! But they are DIRTY!! etc etc. As far as those two were concerned - spuds came prewashed and packed in clear polythene bags and Sainsbury's made them.

These are children who most certainly weren't fed c**p at home and were always shown how to cook everything from scratch, by someone who is REALLY good at doing that.

So if this is how those two behaved 15 years ago - I'm not actually surprised kids can't recognise stuff.

I was only thinking this year on holiday that no more can I buy loose spuds in supermarkets on holiday in France, which ability I have only lost this last year or so. Currently one can still buy most other veg loose there, but it's only a matter of time ......

But there again when I was at work full time and rushing home to get the dinner on - pre-washed & packed stuff was a Godsend - so where's the median?

 

[Worcester_Matt]

But there again when I was at work full time and rushing home to get the dinner on - pre-washed & packed stuff was a Godsend - so where's the median?

Exactly! So much of the debate in the UK about health misses out obvious issues around work and our lives in general.

 

[Caroline]

I think we should be allowed to make our own choices for ourselves and our families. Sugar is just empty calories that makes things test better, bit like excessive salt. If I can avoid using salt or sugar in things I do and avoid things like coffee because I want lots of sugar and coffee mate in it.

I think people need more education, especially the professionals who are supposed to be guiding us and if Mr J Oliver thinks we have too many sugary drinks, why does he sell them in his eateries?

 

[trophywench]

You have to re-educate your taste buds Caroline. At 22 on diagnosis I already didn't take sugar in coffee, but couldn't bear tea without about half a teaspoon - cos you know 60 years ago I already knew that too much sugar and stodge made you fat and by 50 years ago, we ALL wanted to be Twiggy.

I was admitted to hospital - MEGA thirsty. They brought me a cup of tea they said I couldn't have sugar. I drank it. OK it was vile but it WAS liquid. By the next day - I'd given up sugar in tea and was enjoying it !

Put sugar in a drink of tea or coffee now and I'll spit it out, tastes sort of sour/rancid/off - NOT sweet !

 

[robert@fm]

"Jamie Oliver is a patronising bully and he can stick his sugar tax"

 

[megga]

Sugar is only a problem because they stick it in everything, then the other rubbish goes in. Go buy a pre packed sandwich, as diabetics we know looking at it what to expect, yet there is so much more carbs, sugar and fats in it than expected.
The hardest thing i find about being diabetic is understanding food, and with packaging renaming certain ingredients with different names, just to hide what they stick in it.
If you tax sugar then you have to tax fats, processed food, red meat where does it end??
alcohol and cigarettes are taxed very heavy, yet people still smoke and drink.
I think we need real education on what we consume, not going to stop everyone, but i think it would make more impact than tax.

 

[Northerner]

Sugar is only a problem because they stick it in everything, then the other rubbish goes in. Go buy a pre packed sandwich, as diabetics we know looking at it what to expect, yet there is so much more carbs, sugar and fats in it than expected.
The hardest thing i find about being diabetic is understanding food, and with packaging renaming certain ingredients with different names, just to hide what they stick in it.
If you tax sugar then you have to tax fats, processed food, red meat where does it end??
alcohol and cigarettes are taxed very heavy, yet people still smoke and drink.
I think we need real education on what we consume, not going to stop everyone, but i think it would make more impact than tax.

I agree. I don't have children so don't know how much education kids receive about food and nutrition in schools these days, but from seeing past Oliver crusades it would seem to be very little There should be a real push to make this one of the most important items on the curriculum, teaching how to make quick, nutritious meals cheaply and why to avoid pre-packaged processed slop! 🙂

 

[soxpatch]

I was a mid/late 70s kid and we had the 'pop man' who delivered the fizzy pop and we then returned the empty bottles to the shop attached to the pub and would get a few pence for them which we would spend on sweets!
I believe my sweet tooth came from being given a dummy dipped in a syrup of some sort as I never shut up and every single holiday pic of me is being carried everywhere til
I was 8 with a stick of rock in my hand! I deffo did things differently bringing up my son.

I remember having wholesome meals cooked from scratch. Chippy tea on a thurs and no other bad food.

Those days seemed to be more families coming together to help out but we are all so busy these trying to
Do it all, that our lives are so different. So it's easy to see how things have got the way they are.