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Is DP dangerous?

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This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.
lauraw1983

lauraw1983

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
This Dawn Phenomenon thing.....I think I have it a bit.

Having a quick google some things say it's not dangerous....is this correct? High(er) morning numbers make me annoyed and anxious!

Last night I went to bed on a 5.4 (very impressed with myself, one of this few times I have seen a 5 at all!) and I'd had a lovely Sunday roast and a souffle pudding thing...

This morning, 8.8 at about 7.45am! ARGH.

I have no idea if it's a basal thing, or is DP. If it is, is there anything that can help with it?!

Thanks in advance.... x
 
Hi Laura.

Depending on when you ate your roast, it could be the tail end of that coming through. Roasts are notorious for delayed and prolonged spikes.

You'd need to testa couple of times in the night maybe to see when the rise occurred and do it on a day when you have something less fatty for your evening meal.

I eat my main meal at lunchtime so any delays occurr in the daytime. If you eat mid to late evening, say 7pm+, then I would guess on a late spike.

And IMHO 8.8 isn't too bad for waking and certainly not dangerous, but if it's consistent, you could maybe raise your basal by a unit and see what happens.🙂

Rob
 
Are you taking a reading as soon as you get up? Often, your very first reading on getting up can look fine, but take one an hour after rising and it can have risen much higher. Some people get this rise going on before they've even woken up -it can vary a great deal. For me, I usually wake on really good numbers, but if I don't inject and eat then my numbers will climb. Well, they do climb, effectively, because I have to inject far more insulin at this time of day than any other. For example, this morning I injected 7 units of novorapid for a single slice of toast - at any other time of day injecting on this kind of ratio would have me on the floor, yet I need this much not just for the toast but also to counteract the liver rise/DP.

Is it dangerous? Well, elevated levels are never ideal, but I think that if it can be kept below double figures then it probalby has little real impact if the rest of your day and night is fairly well-controlled. If you have overall poor control and the DP is really bad, then it needs tackling!
 
DP can be tackled with some strategies.........I have it and have not completely controlled it, but I can achieve single figures in the morning now, and for me that it good enough.........

the 3am test is a good one, this is usually the earliest the DP effect could begin, so if you have risen from before bed to the 3 am point, its likely you need more basal first before trying to pin down the DP..........

An Alan pointed out, turning off the DP effects with some carbs and insulin does work, so the quicker you get a bite the better........
 
Robster65 said:
Hi Laura.

Depending on when you ate your roast, it could be the tail end of that coming through. Roasts are notorious for delayed and prolonged spikes.

You'd need to testa couple of times in the night maybe to see when the rise occurred and do it on a day when you have something less fatty for your evening meal.

I eat my main meal at lunchtime so any delays occurr in the daytime. If you eat mid to late evening, say 7pm+, then I would guess on a late spike.

And IMHO 8.8 isn't too bad for waking and certainly not dangerous, but if it's consistent, you could maybe raise your basal by a unit and see what happens.🙂

Rob
Click to expand...


Was roast chicken, 3 small roast potatoes, carrots and brocolli. Oh and a yorkie pudding, a frozen type one though, not homemade - Aunt Bessie's 😛

I hadn't thought about the delayed spike thing though, but we ate at 6.30pm and at 8.40pm it was 10.2 and that before bed test was at 12.10am at 5.4....would that still tally up?! :confused:

I've just had one slice burgen with peanut butter, and having an apple. Was still 8.8 when I checked before I ate - that first test was not long before I left the house for work, I have taken 3u humalog, will see how it is in a couple of hours.

I have never been able to eat early, and I do not have the time to eat before I get to work - it just doesn't happen, and it makes me feel sick if I do anyway. Ugh. :(
 
lauraw1983 said:
I have never been able to eat early, and I do not have the time to eat before I get to work - it just doesn't happen, and it makes me feel sick if I do anyway. Ugh. :(
Click to expand...

I feel the same, as I am sure many others do, but if you can get the readings to support that the DP is giving you problems, you might need to reconsider.........

I have a small 125g pot of yoghurt at 15 g carbs, so something small, fresh and enough to get the liver to stop.........
 
My routine has always been to test on waking, then jab and eat my 'standard' breakfast.

In the past this was a shake some cereal in the bowl and guess the amount but more recently has been a measured amount and it keeps me happy through until lunchtime.

I suppose being diagnosed as a youngster sets routines early on that are easier to follow. Ive never really had a choice on skipping breakfast, bar the odd heavy hangover as a teenager, so have never noticed a problem.🙂

Rob
 
My DP seems to kick in sometime between 7am and 10am which I find sort of odd since it's relatively late! Apparently having something small protein based before you go to bed can help? Can't say i've tried it though.

As for the roast, have you tried sweet potato roasties? If roasts are a common thing for you it may be something worth switching to 🙂 I get my mum to do them when we have roasts sometimes. Real potatos are a treat!

Is it also the case that the liver is storing those carbohydrates from your last meal, for example if they're used up or you didn't eat then you wouldn't get DP? I often find my morning numbers are well in range when I eat 'good carbs' such as some sweet pot mash and sausages and bit of veg.
 
lizabetic said:
Is it also the case that the liver is storing those carbohydrates from your last meal, for example if they're used up or you didn't eat then you wouldn't get DP? I often find my morning numbers are well in range when I eat 'good carbs' such as some sweet pot mash and sausages and bit of veg.
Click to expand...

Doesn't work like this im afraid.............

your liver will always have stores of energy in there, to supply your vital organs etc as they need fuel even when you are not eating..........

so the process of DP will always happen..............
 
novorapidboi26 said:
I feel the same, as I am sure many others do, but if you can get the readings to support that the DP is giving you problems, you might need to reconsider.........

I have a small 125g pot of yoghurt at 15 g carbs, so something small, fresh and enough to get the liver to stop.........
Click to expand...


Do you not inject for that then? Just eat it, to get the liver to stop spitting out glucose, then have a "proper" breakfast at whatever time suits you? What yoghurts do you choose? I think I could handle that....if it works! Lol. Wonder what those wee drinking yoghurts are like carb wise, will need to have a look....that would be easy to swig and go!
 
novorapidboi26 said:
the 3am test is a good one, this is usually the earliest the DP effect could begin, so if you have risen from before bed to the 3 am point, its likely you need more basal first before trying to pin down the DP..........
Click to expand...


I need to do this first then too, will do it on days when I am not at work this week I think! I don't think the basal is right, because I have been put on this Humulin I and not a longer acting one....we shall see I guess....
 
Last edited by a moderator:
lauraw1983 said:
This Dawn Phenomenon thing.....I think I have it a bit.

Having a quick google some things say it's not dangerous....is this correct? High(er) morning numbers make me annoyed and anxious!

Last night I went to bed on a 5.4 (very impressed with myself, one of this few times I have seen a 5 at all!) and I'd had a lovely Sunday roast and a souffle pudding thing...

This morning, 8.8 at about 7.45am! ARGH.

I have no idea if it's a basal thing, or is DP. If it is, is there anything that can help with it?!

Thanks in advance.... x
Click to expand...

....you might also be going hypo during the night and bouncing in the morning, 5.4 is quite low to go to bed on, unless you really,really know your diabetes! A couple of nights with 3am tests could be the answer 🙂
 
Let's think about this - Humulin I peaks at around the 5 hour mark

http://www.diabetes-support.org.uk/info/?page_id=408

Sorry bout the size of the graphs for Humulin; those arethe ones that are in the public domain.

So when do you take it, and what time thereafter is your greatest need for insulin? - you'll have to do the 2-hourly basal tests for that LOL (gave you the link to that the other day)
 
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This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.
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