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I want to know more about gliclizide please

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aseret

Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Hello there,

I am not a 'new' diabetic. I have been lurking in the background for some time, in denial.

Diagnosed type 2 about 4 years ago, i was started on Metformin with disastrous results.... When speaking to the endocrinologist about an alternative, she basically said that I was grossly overweight and that if i could lose 20kilos then the diabetes would 'probably' cure itself. (i have been gaining weight steadily for the past 10 or 15 years and have followed 'expert' advice - low fat, low calorie, high carb- diets with very little success) Then she packed me off to the dietician, who went through the motions of dietary advice, so I continued to follow a low fat, low calorie, high carb diet, and made no progress whatsoever. In fact, i have probably put on a couple of kilos since i first started going there. I found her to be rather patronising and have now stopped seeing her. I did, however, buy myself a test meter, although both she and the endocrinologist advised against becoming 'obsessed' with testing.

Fast forward a couple of years. I had surgery for breast cancer in February and have just completed a course of radiotherapy. Last month, i had a health check as part of a routine follow up appointment, and i weighed in at 78 kilos, the heaviest i have ever been. Considering that i am 1.54m (about 5'1") this puts me into 'obese' category. I also had high blood pressure. My GP has insisted that I get this under control and he has prescribed gliclizide. 30mg per day 'to start'. I had a blood test this morning, have not had the results yet but I decided to wait until i do before i start taking the medication.

Obviously, as one does, i googled it today. I am a little concerned that it may cause me to gain even MORE weight. I read that gliclizide encourages the body to produce MORE insulin and also encourages the body to use it more effectively but I think that i already produce enough insulin but that my body has forgotten how to use it, OR that it has become a bit immune due to years of a predominantly high carb diet.

The hormone therapy i am on (Femara) has a side effect of increased appetite, as if that isnt bad enough for a constant diet-er.

After the weigh in, I began a low carb diet and started to test urine using keto-diastix and BS with my meter. It seems, even on adiet which restricts daily intake to less than 20g, that when i eat more carbs, for example including fruit, my urine shows high levels of sugar and when i follow a virtually carb free diet, my urine shows higher levels of ketones. the BS level has not changed very much over the month, averaging around 8.4 mmol fasting. The readings 2 hours after eating however do seem to change, depending on WHAT i eat. If i eat, for example fruit for lunch, it shoots up to over 12, if i go very low carb, no fruit etc, it averages between 9 and 10. I am sticking to less than 1200 calories per day and i dont lead a sedentary life and i eat no processed foods.

None of the health 'experts' seem to be able to answer my questions, they advise strongly against LCHF diets, and they are patronising.

Is ketosis an important part of weight loss process, as suggested by a certain diet, or should i be looking at BS levels? If so, what should i be looking for? And if my BS levels are going to be lowered artificially with a drug, what sort of dietary regime should i be following. Can i still go low carb? Why can gliclizide sometimes lead to weight gain? BTW even on 1200 calories a day, i am not losing weight, just losing my mind.

I seem to have gone on and on.....Sorry!
 
when i follow a virtually carb free diet, my urine shows higher levels of ketones
What you are describing there is nutritional ketosis, where the body us burning fat for energy rather than glucose; that's the basis for LCHF way of eating (I hesitate to say diet as it is more of a lifestyle change).

As for the gliclizide, I have not heard of weight gain being a particular problem though on a very low carb diet you do run the risk of hypo's. I was on a similar drug (glyburide) and had a miserable time with hypos as I was going lower & lower carb (before I'd even researched LCHF), in the end I took myself off this drug after a discussion with the Dr. In short, if you take gliclizide I'd suggest you carry around some hypo treatments.
 
So am i aiming to be in ketosis? Is that healthy? It seems that if i follow a LCHF diet, i slip into mild ketosis and the upside of that is that i am not seeing sugar in my urine, which is surely a good thing?I appreciate that urine test strips are not accurate, i am just using them as a guide.

I cant get the blood test strips on prescription, i buy them myself, they are quite expensive and so i only test randomly. How often should i test? Would i recognise that i am hypo without testing? How would i feel? At the moment, i just feel incredibly tired, it comes over in a huge wave and i have to stop what i am doing IMMEDIATELY and sleep for 15 minutes or so

Is it ok then to persevere with LCHF even when taking the gliclizide? What do you mean by hypo treatments? Something like a mini mars bar or sweets? .
 
If you are on a hypo causing med like gliclazide you should be getting test strips on prescription especially if you are driving as well. With a hypo causing med ideally I would test before eating for a base line and two hours after eating and before driving if driving for a while test at a maximum of two hour intervals.

For hypo treats a lot of people use jelly babies, myself I use wine gums and have a 3 pack of fruit biscuits to hand, they are also is a requirement if you drive to carry hypo treats incase you need to get your levels up. Chocolate bars tend to be to slow in raising ones levels if needed to quickly.

As for weight gain using gliclazide, due to the way it reacts with me I find I have put on weight, mainly due to me having very rapid falls from high to close to hypo within a couple of hours. This is more a quirk with me and meds, others may well find it does not cause weight gain.
 
Hi Aseret. It seems like lots of us on here that you've been given poor dietary advise for T2, it's that darned eatwell plate again, it may be fine for most people but for us It's not.
Many here use the SD Codefree meter available from Amazon or directly from Homehealth
https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/codefree-blood-glucose-monitoring-system-mmoll-or-mgdl/
It's a perfectly good meter, the test strips are around £7 for fifty. The starter kit only provides 10 test strips and lancets, so you'll need to by more. You're entitled to claim VAT relief, we use the mmol/l measurement in the uk.
Have a read of 'Test review adjust' by Alan S
http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.co.uk/2006/10/test-review-adjust.html
When you have time read his whole blog.
For future reference You'll find the above and much more in the pinned section of the newbies introduce yourself her forum, the thread is called ' Useful links for people new to diabetes'
https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/useful-links-for-people-new-to-diabetes.10406/

IMO unless you are ill or have high BGs you don't need to test for ketones. I'm pretty sure the keytones you're showing are dietary keytones like @Martin Canty has explained and are nothing to worry about.

I was on Gliclazide for a while, I did find it harder to lose weight.
Feel free to ask question we'll do our best to help

Ps @pav is correct if you go on Gliclazide, they should provide test strips free and if you drive you'll need to follow the DVLA rules for testing and driving, so you'll need lots of strips
 
Oooo, a lot of questions, Ill try & answer them as they come

  • There are many Low Carb style diets, some aim for Nutritional Ketosis (not to be confused with DKA), in general the lower your carb intake the more chance you will be in Nutritional Ketosis. This is a good state to be in if your aim is LCHF as opposed to other diet methods like Glycemic Load/Glycemic Index though LCHF tends to be low Glycemic Index anyway
  • As for BG, this needs to be monitored rather more accurately than peeing on a stick in which case a Blood Test meter is needed. I'd recommend the SDCodefree from Amazon along with a few hundred test strips to start; Test for Fasting Blood Glucose (FBG) and then, at first before & 2 hours after a meal.... Once you have an idea on how particular foods affect you then no need to bother testing the meal
  • Hypo.... Nasty.... You will feel odd, confused, shakey & sweaty and other feelings... A lot of people who are prone to hypo's carry gummy bears or other fast acting sources of sugar. The fat in chocolate based candy will slow the adsorption of the sugar
  • I don't think that LCHF is incompatible with gliclazide though you do have to be careful... I didn't have such a great source of information as this forum when I was on glyburide (and wasn't doing LCHF) so didn't understand the implications of having days of low carb eating while finding what I could & couldn't tolerate. As a consequence I had emergency stashes of granola bars which I raided every few days & naturally my BG's were all over the place.
 
I bought a meter soon after i saw the dietician the first time, its a boots one and uses 'freestyle' test strips, it measures in mmol. I live in France and I am not sure i can get the strips on prescription. All medications for long term conditions are completely free, I can only ask! I thought it was just the French medical profession that were pushing the '1/3 of a plate of starchy stuff' diet. The more stuff i read on the forum, i see its in the UK too. My sister is same build as me, she is now classified as 'pre-diabetic' and has been given the same sort of advice. Some 20 years ago, i lost a lot of weight on the Atkins regime, it was then that i first used the ketostix, because that is the basis of their theory. I managed to keep it off for a few years, but once i went back to eating bread and pasta, even in quite small quantities, the weight started to creep up again.
The doctor did not mention driving whilst under the influence of gliclazide, I had better read the leaflet twice.

So test BG waking/fasting
Test again before eating
Test two hours after eating

What readings am i aiming for? Presumably a lower fasting BS, and less fluctuation in the others?

Weight is a big issue for me so still a bit unsure what sort of diet to adopt, low calorie? Low carb? Low GI? Will check the weight loss threads and see what the general consensus is. I know neither the dietitian nor the GP will support LCHF as an option so i will keep it to myself at the moment.
 
What readings am i aiming for?
I wouldn't worry too much about the actual readings for right now, the aim is to get D under control.... As a consequence the readings will naturally come down.

For the readings before/after meals you are looking for no more than a 2-3mmol rise, if more than that then analyze what was in your meal & forget about eating the suspect component. However, bear in mind that tollerence for particular foods may change over time (frustrating thing about D is that it;'s not constant)
 
Message to Aseret
I too live in France. Very recently diagnosed. After I had ordered a meter from Amazon Uk I was told if I asked my doctor or my regular pharmacist (showing him my affidavit for free treatment due to maladies long duree ) I should be given metre and strips without payment or at least reclaim able from CPAM. Might be worth following up?

Apologies for using this thread to message couldn't find how to,pm directly.
 
Message to Aseret
I too live in France. Very recently diagnosed. After I had ordered a meter from Amazon Uk I was told if I asked my doctor or my regular pharmacist (showing him my affidavit for free treatment due to maladies long duree ) I should be given metre and strips without payment or at least reclaim able from CPAM. Might be worth following up?

Apologies for using this thread to message couldn't find how to,pm directly.

Thats ok, I have butted in on a few threads myself!

I just had my quarterly blood test this week, have appointment with Doctor on Monday. The good thing about being in France is that they LOVE to send us for tests... but they also LOVE to prescribe. I am uneasy with the amount of drugs i am supposed to be taking - my french is not bad, but reading all the leaftlets for contra-indications and so on is difficult. I have never felt 'unwell' due to the diabetes, went to doctor originally because i was so tired all the time, and gaining weight despite following a regime. I am going to hold off taking the gliclazide until i discuss the results with the doctor next week.

I have been following LCHF for about 6 weeks and, thanks to the french system where we get a personal copy of the test results right away, I can tell that my BG has improved. My Hba1c this week was 6.4% and my fasting BG was 7.33mmol, both of which are down from the last test, so I THINK i am on the right track with LCHF. And i weighed-in this morning and have lost 4 kilos.
 
y french is not bad, but reading all the leaftlets for contra-indications and so on is difficult
Hi aseret, if you look online, (probably under the name of the company that makes the drug) you should be able to find patient information leaflets in English for all the meds you are on (provided you can work out what they are if they're called something else in French)
 
Fantastic! I'd seriously ask to hold off the Gliclazide until you have given the diet at least 3 months, if not 6 to see how everything proceeds.

It's absolutely going in the right direction now!
 
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