how long to see a difference?

[Brambleberry]

So I took my first glicazide yesterday and metformin x3 spaced out. I am recording BM readings. I had short supply of lancets yesterday from the nurse until by prescription came last night. So my readings were all over the place yesterday. First I could take was 4pm because I only had two lancets left and having begun glicazide I was concerned if I went hypo I might need one to check!
So I waited til after my nap at 4pm. I had fruit and fibre with lacto free semi skimmed milk for breakfast, and tuna with salad for lunch. 4pm BM was 3.4mm. That shocked me! Since my fasting glucose from the labs was 13. So I made broth for tea and took my BM before bed. It was 8.9mm. I usually get very hungry at bed time and it keeps me awake so I took nurses advice and had something. I had a chunk of feta cheese as it is not from the cow which I am not good with. I took fasting glucose this morning and it was 10.9mm...I have since read why and how this happens and it is normal...however it is still high...
So my question is, does it take time to stabilise these blood glucose levels. Am I expecting too much to see an immediate change with the meds and very low carb diet....I lost a pound in weight since Tuesday, long may it go in that direction.

 

[Leadinglights]

With any new medication it may take a while for it to take effect, the body had to make adjustments. Metformin doesn't act directly on food and takes a while to build up in your system.
It would be worthwhile to keep a good food diary with some focussed readings of before you eat and after 2 hours to check your meal choices are OK.
Fruit and fibre is one of the higher carb cereals, check the carbs for the portion size you had with the milk as that may have been too much for breakfast but you may need a small amount of carbs with lunch, maybe something more substantial with protein and healthy fats with plenty of veg for dinner. That may help with not feeling hungry at bedtime.
You can reuse lancets, I still have my box of from 5 years ago.

 

[Brambleberry]

LOL never thought of reusing lancets...my nurses brain automatically dispenses them whilst wondering if I should have a sharps box!
I wondered about the fruit and fibre, it was all I had ,really at the time. I could have had eggs but wanted to save protein til lunch. I did oats ( low in stock need to get more), with handful of blueberries and coconut yogurt ( hoping this does not upset the blood sugar). Quite honestly, I am hungry already. I would normally tip a whole small punnet of blueberries in.I am trying to keep the portion sizes to the suggestions on this site. Protein size of pack of cards cheese size of match box etc...and piling up the veg. I think my daughter will need to adjust what she makes when it is her days to cook...she usually makes risotto or chilli or spag bol and worse she orders take away....I think my body was not coping with all that rice! I think she could do these if she increases the veg and adds less rice. She complains when I make these dishes as I put peppers in and mushrooms and onions and courgettes to her too many veggies .

 

[ianf0ster]

Hi @Brambleberry I'm confused about your diet.
So far as T2 Diabetes is concerned, there is no reason to avoid protein - in fact quite the reverse!
Some of us use a nearly or even completely carnivore diet (meat, fish, eggs) with perhaps some cheese but hardly any veg at all.
Personally, I eat a lot of protein and the animal fat or other traditional fat that comes with it naturally and to help my belly feel fuller I also add a lot of low carb veg. I just cut down on the amount of carbs and also avoid seed oils (industrially processed not traditional).

Most T2's find they can still eat bean pasta (available from most UK supermarkets including Aldi). So meat plus sauce plus bean pasta is a possibility if your daughter hates veg.

 

[Brambleberry]

Oh I don't have an issue with protein at all. I eat fish, poultry grass fed lamb or beef and pulses and beans. I think you are misunderstanding that I have problems with dairy ( cow)so cheese, milk, yogurts which fill others I cannot have. But I have found I can get away with sheep and goat cheese , and found a 0 carb soya yogurt today.
The portion sizes I talked about were the advice on the course on learning zone here on this website that advised protein should be about the size of a pack of cards and as thick. Sometimes it is advised the size of the palm or your hand. Since I want to lose weight I am trying to not over eat anything that could restrict the weight loss.

 

[ianf0ster]

Oh, I see the confusion. The 'parent' website is a charity which is part funded by the food industry. Thus, as much as they can, they promote foods that the food industry wants to market rather than the foods that are actually healthy for Diabetics (particularly Type 2 diabetics). Fortunately, the charity doesn't impose that mistaken view on the members of this forum, who are the ones with the actual experience of T2 diabetes and what fails and what works (for them as individuals).

For the vast majority of Type 2 diabetics it is carbs or carbs plus fat which make us overweight. Not protein (even in quantities hugely over the suggested servings) and not traditional fats even when fat constitutes most of the daily calories.
The Eatwell plate, 5 a Day, low fat and 'healthy whole grains' were what made me gain 30 lbs and become Type 2 diabetic in the first place, so I now eat more protein and more fat than I ever did since I was a child 60yrs ago!

 

[Brambleberry]

I totally agree I said to my GP I follow the eatwell plate . Believe it or not I work in futher/higher education health and social care, and was a nurse for many years. So I have been teaching this nonsense to my students!
I am thankful to leading lights for her referral to the freshwell website. It is far more up to date. Whilst I take a medication that piled 5 stone on me I think the eatwell plate helped prevent me from losing it and between the two, caused the type 2 diabetes. The low fat high carbs diet brought in in the 80s was skewed research to support the industry and if you care to look our FSA board of directors are all people involve in flour, cereals, sugars etc. I did a year of a degree in nutrition and the lecturer told us it was skewed! A good book is Fat chance by Dr Robert Lustig his lectures are on youtube he spells out where its at with weight and the food industry and governments.
But where do you go to lose weight when a calorie is no a calorie? You do WW or SW and certainly SW allows you as much potato pasta rice....no wonder I struggled! And RC hip and thigh I lost my baby weight with, as soon as I went on the meds, I gained the 5 stone following the same diet just too high in carbs.
Being diagnosed only on Tuesday I am still out there for advice and experiences. I am lucky my cholesterol is low so I dont need to worry too much about that. But do want to lose this weight its tricky when I have fibro and CFS as well. Once I get blood sugars more stable and meds are balanced I will look at exercise hoping by then I wont be as exhausted.

 

[Leadinglights]

Oh I don't have an issue with protein at all. I eat fish, poultry grass fed lamb or beef and pulses and beans. I think you are misunderstanding that I have problems with dairy ( cow)so cheese, milk, yogurts which fill others I cannot have. But I have found I can get away with sheep and goat cheese , and found a 0 carb soya yogurt today.
The portion sizes I talked about were the advice on the course on learning zone here on this website that advised protein should be about the size of a pack of cards and as thick. Sometimes it is advised the size of the palm or your hand. Since I want to lose weight I am trying to not over eat anything that could restrict the weight loss.

The book or app Carbs and Cals may help you with portion sizes and relative carb value. If one is reducing carbs to less than 130g per day by cutting things out or by substituting lower carb alternatives then you have to get your energy from somewhere and that is protein and healthy fats.
It maybe that when your daughter cooks she can prepare things so you can add extra veg to your portion instead of the rice or pasta. You could freeze extra portions of the things you make for taking out when she gets takeaway.
Many people even if not diabetic would benefit from reducing their carb intake anyway.
My otherhalf completely got on board with my dietary changes and we essentially both have low carb. He may have a few extras but he still lost weight which he wanted to do.

 

[rebrascora]

Oh, I see the confusion. The 'parent' website is a charity which is part funded by the food industry. Thus, as much as they can, they promote foods that the food industry wants to market rather than the foods that are actually healthy for Diabetics (particularly Type 2 diabetics). Fortunately, the charity doesn't impose that mistaken view on the members of this forum, who are the ones with the actual experience of T2 diabetes and what fails and what works (for them as individuals).

For the vast majority of Type 2 diabetics it is carbs or carbs plus fat which make us overweight. Not protein (even in quantities hugely over the suggested servings) and not traditional fats even when fat constitutes most of the daily calories.
The Eatwell plate, 5 a Day, low fat and 'healthy whole grains' were what made me gain 30 lbs and become Type 2 diabetic in the first place, so I now eat more protein and more fat than I ever did since I was a child 60yrs ago!

I think this is a bit of a harsh assessment of the situation and you are doing Diabetes UK a disservice.
Whilst I do not agree with all of the dietary advice recommended by the main charity on their website and feel it can be misleading, particularly for diet (and oral meds) controlled Type 2s, I think the problem is that they are tied too closely to the NHS/government advice rather than obligated to the food industry, from whom I don't doubt some (possibly considerable) funding comes. I do however feel that we are very fortunate and I am incredibly grateful to Diabetes UK for hosting this forum which thankfully has remained largely independent of their advice.

@Brambleberry I do wonder at your understanding of carbohydrates when you mention swapping Fruit and Fibre for porridge which is also a high carb food. I appreciate that you have issues with bovine dairy but there are still plenty of alternatives and perhaps you are restricted in your thinking/imagination by convention on what breakfast is.... it is after all just another meal.... so you can have whatever you like for breakfast, just the same as any other meal. I believe @Drummer has steak and mushrooms or chops and veg for breakfast sometimes. I absolutely love leftover curry for breakfast. You could try a low carb Protein/Nut bar for a grab and go 10g carbs breakfast like a Nature Valley protein bar or Aldi do their own Nut Bars with dark choc and sea salt which used to be 5.9g carbs per bar but they have now increased the size and they are about 10g too. I know Morrisons do a similar Dark choc nut bar. The hunger you feel is your body craving carbs and the less you eat, the less you get those cravings and eating more fat should stop if that hunger. After all most of us have enough pickings on our bones to survive weeks without food even if we aren't terribly overweight but we need to reeducate our body to burning a different fuel source fat instead of carbs. If you keep feeding it carbs, it will demand more. Once it learns to run on fat, your BG becomes more stable and the hunger goes. This has been a total revelation to me as I have suffered cravings and comfort eating for years even eating what would be considered healthy foods like porridge and beans on wholemeal toast and wholemeal pasta and brown rice. My body just kept craving more and I was eating 3 meals a day and snacks. Now I can go all day on just one or two meals and not feel hungry. I still very much enjoy my food but I was a slave to that hunger and craving for carbs before. Now, I love the freedom from that craving and urge to eat. I am sure this all probably sounds weird as it would have to me 4 years ago, but I am not the only person to find this change in my relationship to food. Most of the time I don't even feel any temptation at all when people are eating carb rich stuff in front of me because I have other things now that I enjoy.
There have been other benefits to following a low carb, higher fat way of eating too. I no longer have debilitating migraines which I had suffered for decades and my joint pain has drastically reduced to the point that I can run down steep hills whereas before I was hobbling.

Anyway, just wanted to offer some thoughts and ideas.

 

[Drummer]

I was going to back up what was written, only to realise that I had not eaten any breakfast at all today - but later on I had some sausages - and coffee.
Once carbs are minimised so they do not trigger the release of insulin, hunger really is a thing of the past.