How do we educate the general public about hypos?

[Ellie Jones]

Abi

After reading about the other forum individual, losing their driving licence because their boss over reacted to hypo's... I've got a feeling that the individual is probably being a bit economic with the truth!

If an ambulance crew attends a call out, they have to fill out a CR1 form (Patient Clinical Record in confidence form) this is basically a running record from the original call to control through to the patient either being admitted into A&E or released either to own or somebodies else's care!

The patient is given a copy (green) the ambulance services also keeps a copy for their records (if patient is admitted to A&E, they get a copy) So if the boss had over reacted and the individual had dealt with the hypo themselves, then this will all be written on the CR1 form...

And it's just a case of giving a copy of the CR1 form to the appeals panel, as prove of no treatment required, boss over reacted, If you've lost the copy, then it's a case of asking the ambulance service to supply one...

As to information the CR1 can contain, well in a couple my dogs get a mention, due to they were actually the ones who raised the alarm that lead to the paramedic being called out, and Les's last one, notes that they broke with standard operating procedure.. Due to it was pouring with rain, they didn't follow the full list of primary checks, that should be done before picking him out the puddle he was lying in, to get him onto the stretcher and into the back of the ambulance! Where they finished off the primary checks and started treatment!

 

[Tina63]

What's the point of this story? It's that most people go all rabbit-in-headlights in a crisis and start using the more basic part of their brain. Guess what? Everyone 'knows' that diabetes means insulin. I'm convinced you could lecture a bunch of Nobel Prize winners for 20 years about how to treat a hypo and 9 times out of 10, should they ever come across someone passing out from low blood sugar, their first thought will still be 'they need insulin'.

I have to attend a 12 hour first aid course every three years for my work. There was a brief mention of diabetes at the last one (St John Ambulance) and all the trainer did was passed an insulin pen around for us to look at! She actually asked if anyone had diabetes and one of my friends mentioned my son, so the trainer openly admitted I probably knew more than she did, and I just gave the group a brief rundown of my son's hypo symptoms (but he was newly diagnosed then and had only had a couple at the time so I was still very green about them) and how to treat them. Quite why everyone needed to see the pen I am not sure - because as others have mentioned, it's suggesting a first aider would need to use one. We are certainly coached in using an Epipen, so it's scary to think someone may find an insulin pen and use that too.

 

[Mel]

how do we educate the general public about hypos

I train first aid and always teach about hypo's
the problem is we get topics we have to teach on the 1 day course and then additional topics we can choose to do including diabetes - most trainers know nothing about it and think as I have heard another trainer say to candidates " there are 2 types of diabetes Hyper and Hypo" This trainer has been educated !

 

[Northerner]

Tina and Mel, both very worrying! I know first-aiders can't be expected to know everything, and I imagine most of them will never encounter someone having a hypo, but it sounds like these people you cite were simply making it up! If you choose to speak about something, and especially if you are instructing others, you should at least get your basic facts right 😱

 

[martindt1606]

Alan I did a 3 day first aid course to become the nominated first aider at work. Diabetes was covered in less than 10 minutes and I'm sure in an office environment you are more likely to encounter a diabetic than someone with an open chest wound which was covered in over 30 minutes.

Fortunately the course was 6 months before I became diabetic so I was well prepared when I became diabetic -NOT

 

[trophywench]

Oh well I expect all first aiders to be as good and caring as one of ours when i was at work.

She said to me when I said I wondered if she might like to see how my meter worked? - If you think I would TOUCH another person who was ill Jenny you've got to be joking! The most I would be prepared to do is step over you to dial 999 - it's their job and their problem, not mine.

She actually witnessed me hypo once, I was completely rigid and unable to move or speak but could see and hear. Office manager had dialled 999 when she got no response from me, 2 directors and this lady walked in as she'd got through so the two directors were carrying out instructions to lay me down and get me in the recovery position whilst That One was screaming at them 'Don't touch her, Don't touch her!' MD said 'Just shut up A - we're obeying instructions from the Emergency Services - and diabetes has never been catching!'

I subsequently asked her how she'd managed to do the 3 day course, she said it was OK because the people weren't ill .....

 

[Northerner]

Whaaaaaat????? How on earth did she pass?!!! 😱 And why on earth did she want to do the course? More money, presumably?

 

[trophywench]

No - no-one else on her floor offered so she did .....

On our floor, we said we wished they'd asked for volunteers, our Managers idea of a volunteer was to tell someone she expected them to take on this or that and it would count against them if they didn't. Whereas the First Aider herself said she didn't mind doing it but thought it would have been fairer to have put the names of everyone who didn't mind in a hat and pulled one out. manager then made her be Fire Marshal too. 'But what happens if I'm tending to an ill person at the time?' - 'I'm sure YOU will be able to work something out' was the reply. ie Cos I certainly shan't .....

Where my husband works, virtually everyone eventually gets sent on First Aid and Fire Marshal courses. And that's a factory. When our son-in'law was taken ill there, passed out in the loo (turned out it was a kidney stone) the first aider was called and he went and got son-in-law's younger bro (who also works there) to ask what he ought to do ..... his bro took one look at him and dialled 999. So getting the training doesn't cure the fact that some people don't have sufficient brain cells .....

 

[bev]

Hi Musicalmum,

I understand how frustrating it can be but to be honest I would prefer a hospital visit than being ignored. I think the General Public panic in situations like this because they arent used to dealing with it - so probably feel at least if they ring for help then they have contributed.

Having said that, we were on holiday a few years ago and Alex was fairly new to the pump. He had two set failures in a row resulting in high ketones. We went to the local minor injuries but they couldnt help so rang us ambulance. After taking the details the Paramedic told me to take his pump off!!!!!!!!! I said 'he has ketones why would I take his pump off' - then the other paramedic said 'you dont stop insulin for ketones you give more are you getting confused with hypo's''. I was really shocked that a paramedic could get confused - and if they can then there is no telling what a member of the General Public would do!

I think a general awareness campaign would be beneficial - a bit like the advert for someone having a stroke - just enough information to alert people to the idea that this could be an emergency.🙂Bev

 

[trophywench]

I hope mum now carries a syringe? LOL

 

[bev]

I hope mum now carries a syringe? LOL

Hi Trophywench,

Yes - either myself or Alex has one wherever we go.🙂 Once at A & E it didnt get any better - the Doctor wanted to take the pump off while he worked out how much insulin to give on the drip - I was so worried that I followed what they said until Alex's legs started shaking and he was crying so much I asked why they were taking so long. He said they were having trouble working out how much to give him - I said he is insulin sensitive and on tiny amounts - they looked really puzzled and didnt even understand about basals or anything. I then asked them to check for ketones again and they said 'we dont test for ketones as we dont treat them'!!!!!! I tested them myself and they had gone even higher - so said I would inject Alex while waiting - but they said no. Then another Doctor came in and took control - shouted so much at the other Doctor and gave us the pump back saying 'if anyone EVER orders you to take the pump off - DONT - nobody can remove it without your permission and they have managed to make matters a whole lot worse than they needed to'. Within two hours or so of having a new set and on 800% basal - Alex was sat on the ward and waiting for something to eat as ketones had almost gone. It was at this stage I realised that there are many in the Medical Profession who know very little about diabetes and just pleased that I was there with Alex!😱🙂Bev