high morning bGs if I eat too late at night

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Dory

Dory

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
Hi all,

I've been noticing a trend for a long time now which really baffles me. If I eat too close to bedtime (ie within 3 hours or so) and have anything more than a snack (ie a few bites of anything) my readings in the morning will be high.

It doesn't matter whether it's CHO food or not (it can be soup, a banana, cold sliced meats, cereal etc) - it still has the same result. It's not my basal/bolus/correctional, as if I check my readings before I go to bed they're normal (6-8).

The only thing I can think of is that the food, which presumably won't get digested enough before my body goes to sleep mode, sits in my stomach and somehow causes the rise indirectly (it can't be as simple as the sugars in the food; as I say sometimes I don't even have CHO late in the evening).

Has anyone noticed this? Does anyone have any tips? I can't eat earlier - I don't get home from work until about 7pm eaach night as is (sometimes later) and most days during the week I have to then shoot off to the gym for classes and then dont' get home until 8.30-9pm.
 
That's really interesting. I have noticed this too. I had some cheeses at 10pm. Was 6.0 at 12am but 10.1 at 3am. I thought there must be some weird effect from the fat and protein but who knows.
 
could you test your blood every hour overnight when you do have something to eat........?

might shed some light.....
 
I have this happen because of my gastroparesis
 
novorapidboi26 said:
could you test your blood every hour overnight when you do have something to eat........?

might shed some light.....
Click to expand...

but i know what's happening overnight - the sugars are rising 🙂 I need to work out why - as in what is it do do with eating food late....

AJLang said:
I have this happen because of my gastroparesis
Click to expand...

what's that AJ?
 
pgcity said:
That's really interesting. I have noticed this too. I had some cheeses at 10pm. Was 6.0 at 12am but 10.1 at 3am. I thought there must be some weird effect from the fat and protein but who knows.
Click to expand...

Oh I'm so glad I'm not the only one noticing this. It's so frustrating! my DSN has suggested I just give myself a bit more bolus than usual but that's a bit dangerous as I will have no idea how much to give myself for each different type of food (not to mention bolusing for cheese seems wrong! 🙂 )

I don't really know what to do - I can't not eat as usually I've had nothing by the time I get home from the gym and like to eat some chicken/turkey.seafood etc to get protein back in my body (plus if I don't eat then I'll be starving the next morning)
 
Hi Dory it's a complication of diabetes which causes delayed emptying of food from the stomach into the intestine which causes erratic blood levels but also other symptoms such as nausea/vomiting, bloated stomach etc. It has to be diagnosed through tests such as a gastric emptying study which is completely pain free. It's a form of neuropathy caused by damage to the vagus nerve. Treatment varies but I have four doses of domperidone and erythromycin a day, test my BG about ten times a day and make adjustments as necessary.. I use a multiwave for my evening meal but that still isn't good enough for the sudden 3am increases so I'm currently experimenting with increasing my basal from 2-4am but this then risks a hypo if I have a "good" gastroparesis day.
 
The simple solution is to have a different carb ratio for that time of the evening and see what happens. 🙂
If I eat a lot of protien/fat for an evening meal then I need to set an extended bolus or a temp basal to counter act the rising blood sugars.
 
Sue - that won't solve it, as when I'm having food with no carbs (ie sliced chicken, or scrambled egg, or cheese or something) i don't even bolus!! hence my concern above at having to bolus even when I'm having no CHO!
 
Dory said:
Sue - that won't solve it, as when I'm having food with no carbs (ie sliced chicken, or scrambled egg, or cheese or something) i don't even bolus!! hence my concern above at having to bolus even when I'm having no CHO!
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There lies your problem it's a load of protien and or fat. Many if not all type 1's who just have a protien meal need as much insulin for that as they would for a carb meal. 🙂

You have proved this by saying your blood sugar rises each time you eat like this. 🙂
 
yes but if i changed my evening bolus ratio i would be low before bed (my bedtimes readings are currently 5-6). ideally what I need is a bolus that will release 3-4 hours after I go to bed. the only thing I can think of is an extended bolus, but how on earth do i work that out for protein food?!!!!!
 
and also, if it is just the type of protein, why does this not happen during the say (ie if I have a chicken salad at lunch and bolus I would go low a while later!) Why it is only at night? Is it because the body doesn't convert he protein perhaps as it would during waking hours?
 
Well it could be because of lack of activity, yes.

In which case could you set up a separate basal pattern to cater for it? and just swap to that at bedtime if you have eaten such a meal? (if you have one spare)

But if you are saying it's unpredictable (doesn't always happen even if you do have the same meal at the same time after having done that same gym activity) then it could be gastroparesis, because as Amanda and others will confirm, that little darling is NOT predictable. In fact, that is about the only thing you can be absolutely sure about with it! - that it is unpredictable.
 
Thanks all. Will try a diff basal rate for nights like that but you're right, sometimes it doesn't happen sometimes it does...I really hope it's not GP as I have enough wrong with me already because of this damn diabetes (PCOS and hypohyroidism)!!!


:(
 
Hi Dory, its the same with me, i have dawn highs, but when i fast i find the levels are fine. So at night not to stick any carbs in me i would have, boiled egg, cheese, ham ect but my bg in the morning my bg was high.
After joining this forum i started th reserch protien and fats efects on the blood, i found that (for me) it turns in to glucose and sends my b/s high over night, taking this info on board, for the last 6 mornings my bg has been singl figures.
Its a complete bugger, but diabeties just dont behave, and carb = insulin is not the equation.
But saying that, at least you questioning it, and thats the right track.
 
megga said:
Hi Dory, its the same with me, i have dawn highs, but when i fast i find the levels are fine. So at night not to stick any carbs in me i would have, boiled egg, cheese, ham ect but my bg in the morning my bg was high.
After joining this forum i started th reserch protien and fats efects on the blood, i found that (for me) it turns in to glucose and sends my b/s high over night, taking this info on board, for the last 6 mornings my bg has been singl figures.
Its a complete bugger, but diabeties just dont behave, and carb = insulin is not the equation.
But saying that, at least you questioning it, and thats the right track.
Click to expand...

Do you mind me asking what you do Megga? Do you dodge the fat/protein in the evening or have you figured out a bolus ratio? Thanks!
 
I,m going to try try adding 0.5u to my bolus and extending half over 3 hours for high fat/protein meals
 
Twitchy said:
Do you mind me asking what you do Megga? Do you dodge the fat/protein in the evening or have you figured out a bolus ratio? Thanks!
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Yep, I'm intrigued to know how Mega got round this too.

Also PG I think I'm going to do the same - ie even if I have a protein only meal later at night will give myself a little extended bolus. Perhaps start off sloe and do 1u over maybe 3 hours??

Guys, I cannot thank you enough for the support and help you've given me about this. It has caused me no end of grief for the last few years (since I first started noticing the problem) and just this thread has lifted this huge weight off my shoulders. You are all so helpful - more help than I've ever had with the DSN nurses (who I'm lucky if they contact me once a year). Thank you thank you thank you......
 
Another suggestion......... branching out from what TW has already said.
Have a protien meal/snack and then basal test, see exactly where you start to rise and follow through until the morning. From the amount your blood sugar rises work out how much extra basal you need and from when then set that as another basal pattern. If the rise starts at midnight then start the bolus at 11pm.
Chicken is the worst ofender for me and unless I make sure I have extra insulin to kick in around the 4 AM time then I can guarantee a higher than desired fasting level 😡
 
What a good idea Sue - will try that tonight and see how I get on 🙂

A work from home day is calling tomorrow me thinks......
 
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