here's the thing

[timbla]

diagnosed in april. doctor put me straight onto metformin and told me to lose weight.

i never took the metformin, and instead embarked on a committed exercise routine and low-carb diet that consisted of lots of raw food.

four months later and i have dropped two and a half stone. all good. but since my initial glucose test yielded results that put me into the pre-diabetic bracket (only just though, the 2 hour post drink test gave me a reading of 11mmol/l, where the cut-off for diabetes is 11.1mmol/l), i was never fully in agreement with the doc's original diagnosis.

so i went last week to another doc for a second opinion. i was sent for another glucose test and hey presto. my numbers have come back completely normal. fasting blood glucose of 5.5mmol/l, 8.9mmol/l at the 60 minute mark and 5.4mmol/l at two hours.

these are normal, non-diabetic numbers. i have them on an official print out, and the second doc said to me that based on these results, i do not have diabetes.

i have not allowed myself to get carried away with this though. i have already experienced the death of my former, gluttonous self, and am happy with my diet/exercise routines now. i am not looking for an excuse to return my former lifestyle.

but i do want to know what my options are. doc number two has said she will send the results to doc number one, so that my record shows this result.

but am i cured?

can i have the diabetes scratched from my medical record (i think not but..?)

what is the medical protocol when a patient presents with two completely different sets of results, admittedly separated by a few months?

i so want to believe that i have nipped it in the bud and by dropping the pounds i have restored beta cell function to normal. while i know there will be those on here who don't buy into this, i for one have been extremely bouyed in recent months by research that has suggested the unspeakable - that low-cal and raw food diets can reverse diabetes.

of course, i want to believe that this is what i have done.

but i will throw it out there and see what people think. i have the right to have my latest glucose test results appended to my medical files though, right?

tim

 

[Robster65]

Hi Timbla.

Sadly, your initial hunch was right. You still have a tendency to diabetes.

Your first OGTT, in your former guise, showed that you had some insulin resistance due to your obesity, lack of sufficient exercise and presumably poor diet.

Your have now gone back as a reformed person and your resistance has dropped to more normal figures. The 8.9 at 1 hour would imply to me that you're still not processing the carbs perfectly but your resistance is lowered sufficiently to put you in the 'normal' category at 2 hour.

They are only numbers. If you ate as you did before (which a true non-diabetic can, without high BGs) your BGs would shoot back up again.

The 600 calorie test was inconclusive but showed a link between insulni resistance and free fatty acids in/around the internal organs. It never intended to show a 'cure' because your metabolism has the same weaknesses as it did before. It's genetic rather than environmental.

Rob

 

[Northerner]

I agree with Rob - were the circumstances of your original test to be reproduced in the future, I would expect you to have similar diabetic/almost diabetic results. There is such a broad spectrum with diabetes, particularly Type 2. Some people are very much 'on the edge' and can restore good levels by relatively small adaptations to their diet and exercise, some may need the support of drugs but eventually achieve good control with weight loss and exercise, yet others may only delay the need for an increasing amount of medication.

Having said that, you have done brilliantly - so well done! 🙂 I can understand why you would not want to have 'diabetes' on your records as this can affect things like insurance. Not sure where you stand with that, but it would be interesting to know if you find out!

 

[Mark T]

Well done on the lifestyle changes and weight loss! 🙂

my numbers have come back completely normal. fasting blood glucose of 5.5mmol/l, 8.9mmol/l at the 60 minute mark and 5.4mmol/l at two hours.

these are normal, non-diabetic numbers. i have them on an official print out, and the second doc said to me that based on these results, i do not have diabetes.

Sadly, those are not complete normal, non-diabetic numbers! For a non-diabetic I would of expected something more like 5.4 mmol/L, 5.4 mmol/L, 5.4 mmol/L and possibly lower depending on what was eaten.

Yes, yes, yes - I know that a non-diabetic can apparently go up to the 7's but I believe that is with very high specific carbohydrate consumption.

My understanding from reading some of the literature is that any new beta-cells your body now creates are working correctly, however - since the rate of natural beta-cell death is faster then the rate of new cell creation - those cells you lost whilst in the diabetic ranges don't come back.

They would probably class you as pre-diabetic now, possibly as Impaired glucose tolerance.

But well done on getting to where you have got to! 🙂

 

[grufflybear]

You have proven to yourself how effective the diet regime can be at improving your BG levels but as others have said, and please don't even think of trying it, that if you went back to old habits you may find that your natural mechanism would fail again. So from a health point of view well done for your success, you can say that you have controlled your diabetes with diet and exercise but my understanding is that you can be well in control without medication but not "cured". I am in similar position but I do know from my food experiments that the wrong food will send my BG high very quickly which wouldn't happen if I wasn't diabetic. I too feel a little sad sometimes that I cannot actually be cured but on the very positive side I can control the condition, I feel healthier than I have done for some years and I too am considerably slimmer.

Although the thing that made me think is this poissble scenario.... that if an individual like you was worried that they had diabetes, and before seeing a doctor went out and bought a testing machine, customised their diet, lost weight and exercised to bring the BG levels so well under control as to be almost normal.... what would be the verdict if you then went to GP and asked to be tested to see if you were diabetic ???

 

[Steff]

Hi Timbla,
Ive seen quite a few people on here ask am i cured? unforutnetly diabetes is not like a cold it cant just go again then come back etc.When I was diagnosed I never even questioned my diabetes I just got in with it,even though I dont want it I dont sit there trying to convince myself I dont have it or search around for a scrap of any figures that look like i have been.You have done massivly well so I congratulate you on that.Well done

Steph 🙂

 

[timbla]

thanks to all for the input. i accept that the one hour postprandial is a little high, even though on the printout i got, it said normal next to it. for my first ogtt a one hour blood test wasnt taken. had this been the case in the second ogtt, then what? i would have recorded figures of 5.5 at FBG at 5.4 at the two hour mark. having not already been diagnosed with diabetes at that point, and that being my first test, the doc would have told me that i wasnt diabetic right? alluding to the scenario that gruff mentioned - i'd have been given a clean bill of health in that case, right? even though i'd still have had an elevated one hour postprandial, it wouldnt have been picked up. i am just saying. different time, different context, different outcome.

i will not be returning to my old ways. i do not want to test the theory. it would be nice to be removed from the chronic illness register though. but that's just me. i am not inclined to 'just get on with it' until i am certain all possibilities have been exhausted, and i am a long way from that point yet. besides, that attitude seems a touch defeatest to me. and for the record, i am not 'sitting there trying to convince myself i dont have diabetes, or searching around for scraps of figures' that suggest there is a cure.

i have read a ton of literature since diagnoses and am well aware of the current arguments. i prefer to think that i am proactive in trying to gain a deeper insight of what this is all about FOR ME and my circumstances. i do not support or discount any theory there is out there, cos the bottom line is that diabetes affects everybody differently, right? that suggests an equally varied number of approaches in dealing with it, which in turn offers hope.

morning rant over. ive a tube to catch. its raining. but that's fine by me. happy bank holiday weekend to one and all.

t

 

[Northerner]

...i have read a ton of literature since diagnoses and am well aware of the current arguments. i prefer to think that i am proactive in trying to gain a deeper insight of what this is all about FOR ME and my circumstances. i do not support or discount any theory there is out there, cos the bottom line is that diabetes affects everybody differently, right? that suggests an equally varied number of approaches in dealing with it, which in turn offers hope.

morning rant over. ive a tube to catch. its raining. but that's fine by me. happy bank holiday weekend to one and all.

t

Yes, I think you are absolutely right. A lot of the problems with talk about cures and reversals suggests that diabetes is the same for everybody, but it is an incredibly complex and individual thing. Certainly, from what you say, had the OGTT not taken the one-hour you would have been pronounced non-diabetic. Apparently, there is no strict guideline to take a reading at one hour, which does surprise me. As a Type 1 subject to suffering hypos I know how quickly a glucose drink would hit my system and how quickly it would 'depart', so not taking a one-hour reading seems a bit silly - it would hardly cost the earth to do another fingerprick test!

You've done terrifically well getting things under control, and in a way that means you are happy to continue with the 'new you'. I'm always really pleased to hear from people who have turned things around (I won't say 'reversed' - I hate the application of that word!) 🙂

 

[timbla]

thanks again. i am well pleased with what i have achieved, and while i will continue to err on the side of caution, i am quietly confident that if nothing else, i have severely regressed the progression of the illness and my big belly has gone!

happy days 🙂