Help

[MonicaR]

Hi everyone. I'm in desperate need for a mentor. I've been diagnosed 3 weeks ago and had no guidance at all from my GP.
I need help.
I follow a plant base diet, vegan for many years. I was so surprised to get this diagnosis.
I'm keen to reverse this diabetes,
So, I've ordered meals replacement shakes.
Last week I've struggled with cravings. I need use to enjoy or want sweet food, but last week all I wanted was cakes and chocolate.
So, I thought today I could reset my system. Fastest all day and only had a shake for dinner around 7 pm.
Here’s what happened:

12 PM: blood glucose at 12.3 mmol/L (quite high for fasting).

All day: fasted.

6:45 PM: Blood glucose dropped to 7.8 mmol/L (better, but still a bit high for a long fast).

After 2 hours for having the shak, glucose back up to 12.3 mmol/L.

Nutritional Breakdown: Complete 360 Meal Vegan Shake

Each 100g serving of the Complete 360 Meal Vegan shake contains:

Calories:

Carbohydrates: 46g

Sugars: 2.7g

Fibre: 10g


Protein: 30g

Fat: 10g

Saturated Fat: 3.2g


Salt: 0.1g

.... What can you suggest?
I guess I shouldn't fast... So, I'll try again tomorrow without fasting.
Oh, I'm not on medication yet, waiting for a prescription....
I'd appreciate your guidance.
Thanks

 

[Felinia]

Hello and welcome. Diagnosis always comes as a shock, particularly if you think you eat healthily. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself? For example what was your HbA1c on diagnosis - you are entitled to be told, as you need to know where you are starting from? Can you give us examples of what you eat - main meals, snacks and drinks - each day? Are you a normal weight, and do you have medications for other medical conditions? This will help us to best advise you.
Whatever you decide to do, it must be sustainable long term. Diabetes treatment is often likened to a marathon, not a sprint - there is no quick fix. If you are confirmed as Type 2 you might wish to consider following a lower carb eating plan. This is considered as less than 130gm carbs a day. Others do follow the soups/shakes plan. I saw that your shake had 46gm carbs, so 3 a day would be 138gm carbs before you had anything else.
A popular breakfast is yogurt (there are plenty of vegan ones) with a few berries, nuts and seeds. My go-to lunches are home made soups in winter (without bread or thickeners like flour or potato), but including some beans like haricot, cannelloni or borlotti, and salads in summer. For main meals there are all sorts of casseroles, stews, stir fries to ring in the changes.
Depending on how high your HbA1c is, you might be able to have a very small portion of bread, rice, potato or pasta. I see you are monitoring before and after, so that would show you what foods affect your blood glucose. Every person's body is different, so there is no hard and fast rule. You just have to work out what suits you best. I got an app immediately on diagnosis, to help me control my carb intake and manage my food diary (something I do daily for the past 7 years).
You don't seem to have been given any support. You should have regular annual tests, including eyes for retinopathy, feet for neuropathy, weight, blood pressure, HbA1c (more frequently initially). If you have not been told about this, you should ask. I would hope you get to speak to a diabetic nurse at your GP, for advice on lifestyle - weight, exercise, diet. Some can be old fashioned - if that's the case you can tap into thousands of years of experience on this Forum and website.
This is a bit generic, as I don't follow a vegan diet, but I hope it gets you started.

 

[Inka]

Welcome @MonicaR 🙂 How much shake did you have - ie how many grams of carb? Fasting might just have made your body pump out glucose in the absence of food. Better to eat, I’d say. There are a number of plant-based diets aimed at helping Type 2.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Sorry to hear you’ve had some slightly perplexing results from your experiments @MonicaR

Sometimes fasting can put the body slightly into ‘panic mode’ and encourage the liver to release stored glucose.

How did your diagnosis come about? Was it completely out of the blue, or did you suspec something was ‘not quite right’ for some time? Were you told the result of your diagnosis HbA1c? That can help you understand how much your metabolism has been struggling.

 

[MonicaR]

Thanks to you all for your replies.
About me.
I'm 48,
In 2009 I had a total thyroidectomy and went for 70 kg to 85 kg
I was taking 150micrograms of levothyroxin until recently. Now I'm on 175 micrograms as I was under active.

End of may this year, I suddenly started suffering from severe back ache, I couldn't walk for about 2 weeks.

The pain in my back triggered the request of blood tests from the doctor.
The thyroid was under active
Liver function was abnormal
HbA1c was 72
Also low vitamin D and B12.

I was Immediately started on loading doses of vitamin b12 and D and increased levothyroxin
After two weeks the blood tests came abnormal again.
HbA1c was 77
I immediately replaced sugar with sweetener and started reducing my intake of carbohydrates.
I've tried to go on calories controlled diet as explained. But the cravings are unbearable.
I've always intermittently fasted, and eating regularly has been a struggle.
As explained I've been vegan for many years and as a menopausal woman with no thyroid I resigned myself to being overweight.
I'm 84.6 kg heavy 13.3stones.
I work full time and I have a very sedentary lifestyle.
I spend all my time at a desk.
I'm the single parent of a disabled young adult and I'm stressed and exhausted all the time.
I'm sure my lifestyle has a serious impact on my blood sugar... But, there's nothing I can do about that.
I've been suffering with insomnia for the last 12 months.
I need to control my cravings! This evening I could eat a horse!
I've had a salad wrap with vegan mayo (wholemeal wrap) a sugar free pepsi... But I'm craving like crazy!
I have never before felt like this.
Have you guys been through the same cravings? How do you manage it?

 

[Drummer]

Is there any way you can eat more protein and fats? Just one of the shakes you are using is more carbs than I eat in a day.

My own experience was of easily reversing my type 2 and reducing my need for thyroxine by removing the high carb foods I had been advised to eat and replacing them with protein and fats - but I am an omnivore.
I have no cravings, lots of energy - I went out with the morris dancers today as it was St George's Day - out in the sun and did not get sunburnt like I used to when using sunflower oil. I went through menopause and never even noticed.
Although I don't eat very much, two meals a day most of the time but sometimes just one, I don't limit calories deliberately as there seems to be no need.

 

[Inka]

A vegan diet is natural @Drummer People are vegan for many reasons; it’s a valid diet choice; and the only problem with it is prejudice from others.

 

[Drummer]

A vegan diet is natural @Drummer People are vegan for many reasons; it’s a valid diet choice; and the only problem with it is prejudice from others.

I was responding to the description of MonicaR's situation and condition, the intense cravings, a rise of almost 5 after one of those shakes - the amount of carbohydrate in each one - just because what is being put into a shake can be called vegan seems to me to be a justification or excuse for a pretty dire diet for any Human.

 

[Inka]

I was responding to the description of MonicaR's situation and condition, the intense cravings, a rise of almost 5 after one of those shakes - the amount of carbohydrate in each one - just because what is being put into a shake can be called vegan seems to me to be a justification or excuse for a pretty dire diet for any Human.

We only know the amount of carbs in 100g of that shake powder, not how much powder was in the actual shake. You used shakes yourself recently. Were yours “dire” for humans too? Why are you still having a dig at vegans?

 

[Drummer]

We only know the amount of carbs in 100g of that shake powder, not how much powder was in the actual shake. You used shakes yourself recently. Were yours “dire” for humans too? Why are you still having a dig at vegans?

If you read the original information things might be clearer.
When using the shakes my reaction to them meant that I needed to reduce to one shake a day, use full fat rather than skimmed milk and then eat a more normal meal to try to maintain my status in remission. I failed.
I thought that I was careful to refer to protein and fat rather than any non vegan sources - I cannot alter 1.7 million years of Hominid evolution but felt that MonicaR's situation deserved whatever assistance I could give.

 

[Inka]

But you still thought a “dire” shake was acceptable for you to consume for a number of weeks, despite all the apparent direness. And you’re still having an oblique go at vegans. No idea why. If you’re envious you could check out some of the many plant-based diets aimed at health and weight loss, and have a look at their stats - which are very good, and include lowering of blood pressure, cholesterol and more.

 

[Captainmartin]

You do need to have protein in your diet and fasting can cause your body to go into a mode where it produces more sugar. When I have a sweet craving I use some of the skinny range of sweeteners in my coffee, they also do zero carb maple syrup and golden syrup. Try baking some rhubarb with it on. Add some vegan cream and it should sort out the cravings

 

[Leadinglights]

If you have 'sweet' cravings then look on the website sugarfreelondoner for low carb cakes and biscuits, I'm sure they can be modified to be vegan if not.

 

[MonicaR]

Thank you everyone for your advice and suggestions.
I truly appreciate it.
Many people ask about my protein intake and often find it hard to understand the variety I actually have access to.
I’ve always been proud of eating clean and healthy. I’ve never really enjoyed sweet foods, and my only regular sugar intake has been 2 teaspoons of granulated sugar in my morning coffee.
So, I was genuinely surprised to find myself craving sweet foods recently.
Regarding protein shake, I have 100g of protein shake mixed with 300ml — half water and half unsweetened oat milk. I've reduced the dose today to 70 gr .

I need to push with my GP about prescribing medication, as I can’t take Metformin (sukkarto) , it’s not vegan and contains animal-derived ingredients like shellac, a resin secreted by a bug. The process of obtaining the resin is, in my view unnecessary and we as humans shouldn't be squeezing bugs to consume their secretions.

I know I can reverse this diabetes and I'm grateful you are all here... vegan and non vegan,.
I'm 3 weeks in... I welcome your knowledge and experience and I hope your journey in fighting this condition is going well.

 

[Drummer]

But you still thought a “dire” shake was acceptable for you to consume for a number of weeks, despite all the apparent direness. And you’re still having an oblique go at vegans. No idea why. If you’re envious you could check out some of the many plant-based diets aimed at health and weight loss, and have a look at their stats - which are very good, and include lowering of blood pressure, cholesterol and more.

The shakes I used were the Tesco ones - combined with a normal meal - not dire at all. The diet didn't work for me - increasing my HbA1c, and reducing my energy and sense of wellbeing, but I am sure it is perfectly fine for many people. It is, after all, intended to be temporary.

My blood pressure is normal, my cholesterol - from what I can discover, is close to ideal for longevity. Plant based really would not work for me - I was pushed to eat low fat 'healthy' foods for half a century and ended up hugely overweight. I almost lost one of the children 40 years ago due to the threats and insistence on my eating 'a healthy diet' causing eclampsia.

 

[Inka]

So what makes the OP’s shakes dire then? Although I’d never manage on shakes because I’d get hungry, I fail to see why one shake is ok, but another is “dire”, nor why you keep having a go at vegans. There are plenty of people on this forum that have tried shakes of various kinds.

 

[Lucyr]

I need to push with my GP about prescribing medication, as I can’t take Metformin (sukkarto) , it’s not vegan and contains animal-derived ingredients like shellac, a resin secreted by a bug. The process of obtaining the resin is, in my view unnecessary and we as humans shouldn't be squeezing bugs to consume their secretions.

Why are you focusing on the one brand that contains shellac not the hundreds of others that don’t? Standard metformin doesn’t contain shellac and is vegan. Not all slow release metformin contains it either. Mine doesn’t contain it.

 

[MonicaR]

Why are you focusing on the one brand that contains shellac not the hundreds of others that don’t? Standard metformin doesn’t contain shellac and is vegan. Not all slow release metformin contains it either. Mine doesn’t contain it.

This is what I was prescribed
I'm waiting to speak to GP so I can ask for a different medication.
I'm glad to hear there's options for me. Hopefully it's not going to be a battle to get a new prescription.

 

[grovesy]

There are many differnt brands of Metformin Slow/Modified release, I think I most have had a least 12 differnt brands over the years.

 

[Drummer]

So what makes the OP’s shakes dire then? Although I’d never manage on shakes because I’d get hungry, I fail to see why one shake is ok, but another is “dire”, nor why you keep having a go at vegans. There are plenty of people on this forum that have tried shakes of various kinds.

For a start the amount of carbs in each one of those shakes the OP used would be really problematic for many on a low carb diet.
Just because the powder is vegan it doesn't make it automatically good for someone - just read the information given and the reports on how the OP is feeling. That is the important thing I am trying to address.

I tried using and evaluating the effects of slimming shakes and following at least some of the advice given on the regime - I'd have done more except for the wake up call from the blood test showing that things were not going right.

At one point I was experiencing hunger, so I evaluated the situation and dealt with it - I am sharing my experiences such as they are. The vegan shakes fall at the first requirement for me to try - one serving is way over my daily carb intake.