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Thanks for that tip. I’ll give it a go!
I always found it harder to get some blood out of somebody if the played the guitar as their fingers tended to be tougher.
I find the best place to prick is just at the side of the pad, put your thumb on the pad and then prick to the side, you can then use gentle pressure with the thumb to get your small drop of blood.
(needed to get blood from people to use for lab experiments, I could get 0.5ml from 1 finger prick, that is 100x more than needed for most monitors)
 
And - I think you are correct about the GP nurse too - Humulin was supposedly much closer to natural, ie human, insulin. If you ask me it was/is no closer to mine than the porcine sort I used before that. The main problem for me being that either the HI injected last night or the HS I'd had at lunchtime for my sandwich at work apparently had a peak at approx 6pm ish just when I was in traffic driving home from work ........... this is because you have to inject it in a 'great lump' rather than the clever little gizmo (aka pancreas) you have, dripping it in when Brain tells it to.

So - best start him on Humulin then and just keep him ticking over till the hospital can see him ........
 
Thank you so much for all this. I really appreciate the time and effort involved to share your experience and learning.

Just to clarify, when I left hospital I was discharged with a regime of PERT and digestive medicines but had no sign of diabetes. Four months after discharge I was beginning to struggle again and GP ordered a range of tests, one of which showed I had become diabetic. My GP made hospital referral but until then I’m being seen by the practice nurse. I think this is why my treatment isnt working as well as I’d hoped; following your thinking it makes sense that maybe the nurse will not have the experience (or authority?) to prescribe anything different/extra?

I’m been vigilant with my diet but I feel like a drunk negotiating a chicane in an articulated lorry. I’m swerving and crashing left, right and centre. I hope the help here will improve my driving.

cheers

John
Hi John,
Very sorry to hear of your troubles and wish you all the best and great to have such good advice and support from people who actually live with the condition and huge learnings to be had.
My history has some similarities to yourself in that I had a severe attack of acute pancreatitis about 18 months ago with necrosis of exocrine cells/ hospitalised and post discharge pseudocyst.
Took a few months to recover and lost lots of weight due to very strict diet/ malabsorption but spoke to dietician who told me to eat more fat from September last year and I made a great improvement and regained weight and back to normal energy levels and could eat what I wanted with the Creon.
I was told that due to the location of the endocrine cells within the Pancreas and my CT scans showed that was “ ok” then I thought I may have avoided diabetes but I have just being diagnosed this last week following a regular blood test ( I had been thirsty/ going to loo a lot) but I drink a lot of water and a man of a certain age.
So all was great until this week and given my history Type 3C was pretty obvious as apparently after pancreatic damage it can be simply how long your insulin reserves produced by Pancreas last so can be well over a year after original AP attack.
Anyway my GP etc has been fantastic so everything sorted within 2 days.My BG level has been averaging mid 20s without the insulin so have had a Freestyle Libre and associated Insulin and started insulin last nigh.
The whole process is “ overwhelming” in terms of information but I can cope with most things once I know what I need to do so can accept my situation pretty quickly but very early days.
Anyway really good to join a “ community” to support and inform each other and my challenge is to get stable within the targeted range in next few weeks and just find out how my new condition is affected by different foods and then manage accordingly.
GLA
 
PS have missed out most important bit.I am lucky to have a very supportive wife but she has just said to me “ so far”
I'm happy to go on record that I also have a very supportive wife (and she also recently said "so far"). As it happens we celebrated our 50th anniversary yesterday.

From a slightly more serious perspective, there is no doubt in my mind that managing my D is relentless in its "continuance". Even though I'm only 3.5 years in there are moments when I get frustrated (angry) and cheesed off by the alerts for falling BG, or the total lack of spontaneity in respect of meals and bolus considerations (not just carb counting, but prebolus timings and/or the effects of exercise and activity). My frustrations inevitably (wrongly of course) cascade towards my wife - however much I try to avoid that. And it takes a strength of character that I don't seem to have to keep those frustrations to myself.

So I'm in praise of our nearest partners and loved ones for having to share this D business with us!
 
I'm happy to go on record that I also have a very supportive wife (and she also recently said "so far"). As it happens we celebrated our 50th anniversary yesterday.

From a slightly more serious perspective, there is no doubt in my mind that managing my D is relentless in its "continuance". Even though I'm only 3.5 years in there are moments when I get frustrated (angry) and cheesed off by the alerts for falling BG, or the total lack of spontaneity in respect of meals and bolus considerations (not just carb counting, but prebolus timings and/or the effects of exercise and activity). My frustrations inevitably (wrongly of course) cascade towards my wife - however much I try to avoid that. And it takes a strength of character that I don't seem to have to keep those frustrations to myself.

So I'm in praise of our nearest partners and loved ones for having to share this D business with us!
Thanks for kind words and advice and sure the journey forward will be peaks and troughs.
one thing I would appreciate advice on is how long it took to stabilise the BG levels within the targeted range.
I know everyone is different depending on where they started from/ individual body responses and normally takes 2-3 weeks for other types of diabetes so not sure if it similar for a Type 3c( appreciate can’t be certain if Pancreas is producing what level of insulin ( if any).
My loading dose is 2 units of Novo D 3* a day before meals and once a day 6 units of Lantus.My weight is 75kg and have pretty average diet.
Thanks in advance
 
I am Type 1 not Type 3c but generally they like to start you on small conservative doses and bring your levels down slowly over a period of weeks. The reason for this is that that it means that it creates less stress on the body and particularly the fine blood vessels in the eyes which are very vulnerable to bleeds if BG levels drop fast. Generally our levels take time to get to the high level at diagnosis, so the body adapts to these high levels gradually, so it is important to give it time to gently readjust to them coming down again. You may well experience blurred vision as your levels drop even with a slow descent as the change in sugar solution in the lens of the eye causes it to change shape and therefore change the focal length and the muscles in the eye take time to learn how to refocus for the changed lens shape.
Also, hypos are not nice at the best of times, dangerous and even life threatening on occasion and your first few hypos iften feel like you are about to pass out and they catch you at unexpected moments, like whilst out walking the dog on your own as one member recently found out. They are particularly unpleasant when they drop fast from a high level, so starting on a much lower dose than you are likely to need, helps reduce the risk of hypo and certainly a nasty one and gives your nurse a chance to see how your body responds to the insulin and food you eat and make gentle adjustments. Eventually you will learn how to adjust your own doses, but in these early stages it is about bringing your levels down cautiously and gently over several weeks. Once you get into range you will still find your levels go up and down a lot and trying to keep things steady can be like trying to herd kittens, but gradually you start to see patterns and find tips and techniques which work for your body and the food you eat and the exercise you do..... but it all takes time and experience and there is no short cut to that.
The important thing is to always be prepared with hypo treatments to keep yourself safe and have a structured approach to treating them because when the panic sets in and your brain gets muddled, it can be challenging.
 
Thanks Barbara and my Diabetes specialist did mention the point about slowly adjusting your dose and being very conservative in approach due to managing retinal concerns.
As my levels are very high at the moment not sure I have to worry about hypos for a few weeks but also monitoring every 2 hours and being very careful re diet and exercise until stable but still recognise risks.
Another question is on timing in that it is obviously more comfortable working from home when I can plan and control timing of injections/ meals etc and would only be happy to return fully to my normal job which involves a lot of driving and visits to customers when I am stable and can better manage my condition.
Thanks again.
 
Thanks for kind words and advice and sure the journey forward will be peaks and troughs.
one thing I would appreciate advice on is how long it took to stabilise the BG levels within the targeted range.
I know everyone is different depending on where they started from/ individual body responses and normally takes 2-3 weeks for other types of diabetes so not sure if it similar for a Type 3c( appreciate can’t be certain if Pancreas is producing what level of insulin ( if any).
My loading dose is 2 units of Novo D 3* a day before meals and once a day 6 units of Lantus.My weight is 75kg and have pretty average diet.
Thanks in advance
I agree with all that @rebrascora has said, above. Also, it is difficult to advise on a timescale to achieve that "stabilisation" you aspire to.

Firstly there are many insulin dependent folk on this forum who could tell you that stabilisation is a bit of a pipe dream. No sooner do you think you've mastered this D malarkey than something changes and the known rules aren't being obeyed and anarchy has resumed! I don't mean to be defeatist in telling you this - but there is a lot to get on top of and it takes time.

Secondly, my own experience was that I spent my first 12 months without CGM (Libre 2 at that time) and I was struggling with malabsorption for at least 18 months. So even after that amazing dramatic insight into not only what my BG was recording at any one moment AND telling me whether it was level, going up or crashing - and I was happily carb counting and adjusting my insulin doses accordingly - my malabsorption meant the carbs I was counting and eating weren't actually being fully digested. So that aspect was a lottery!

Thirdly, my DSN from our local hospital had no grasp of the significance of my T3c - with absolutely no pancreas at all. So much so when my GP arbitrarily rationed my test strips down to 4 per day, my DSN was consulted (unknown to me) and told my GP I didn't need to test more than 4 times daily. I was driving to Chemotherapy, 4 return trips per fortnight - yet apparently testing wasn't appropriate, I could ask someone else to drive me (or perhaps in her mind I was totally senile and incapable .....) I must admit I am still extremely bitter about that experience of 3 yrs ago: a previously alert and clever GP didn't have the courtesy to discuss this with me or recognise that no pancreas meant that testing was vital; and a DSN was simply badly adrift and I lost all confidence in her abilities and experience. But the significance for you @Wendal is that you are already "well ahead of the curve". You seem to have a great D team not rar away (intellectually) and you have found this Forum where people are happy to answer questions and NO question is stupid. Everyone on this forum has some memory of how confusing it used to seem and how wretched things could sometimes feel.

Lastly, I don't think anyone gets on top of this in a couple of weeks.
Thanks Barbara and my Diabetes specialist did mention the point about slowly adjusting your dose and being very conservative in approach due to managing retinal concerns.
As my levels are very high at the moment not sure I have to worry about hypos for a few weeks but also monitoring every 2 hours and being very careful re diet and exercise until stable but still recognise risks.
My reaction is that being very high at the moment will NOT and should not stop you from being wary of hypos from now on.

Just now being on insulin can create a scenario of pancreatic recovery (albeit temporarily) and suddenly hou could have natural and injected insulin in your system overwelming any glucose in your blood. Even if that doesn't apply (I have no pancreas so it can't apply to me) just one energetic session can change that apparent high BG status. It doesn't have to be a sprint for a bus or a 5 km walk; just walking around inside a shop or pushing a vacuum cleaner can and does create low glucose conditions. Personally I have a hypo response something with me at ALL times: in the bedroom, bathroom, both cars, all coat pockets - literally always available. I also have my CGM alert set at 5 or higher so that I get an alert, rather than an alarm and can treat a lowering BG BEFORE it becomes a hypo.
Another question is on timing in that it is obviously more comfortable working from home when I can plan and control timing of injections/ meals etc and would only be happy to return fully to my normal job which involves a lot of driving and visits to customers when I am stable and can better manage my condition.
Yes, I think managing my D from home is vastly easier than when away. But I do drive long distances and nowadays take overnights away 'in my stride' which I doubted was going to be possible 3 yrs ago. But my situation is different to yours.
Thanks again.
I totally want you to master this in weeks, not months. I truly want you to absorb all the D understanding quickly and simply. But I want to try and manage your expectations. The US author Gary Scheiner, in his book "Think Like a Pancreas" [a book I found most helpful] early on states that Diabetes is Complicated, Confusing and Contradictory. Reluctantly, I agree with that analysis and the more I find out the more complicated, confusing and contradictory it becomes. I am in no doubt that it suits me to be well informed and to have a good sense of understanding of what is going on. I am a retired Civil and Structural Engineer and I was indoctrinated in my 20s to the concept that Knowledge Dispels Fear - so I like to try and know about "what is what and why". T3c is at first glance just a variation of T1, yet in so many ways it is far more than that. Different metabolic processes going on than T1 driven by the autoimmune circumstance; different dietary responses because of (in your case) pancreatitis and surgery or treatment affecting your digestion; and different understanding by most Health Care Providers (HCPs) of your diabetes - or rather appallingly little understanding by most HCPs.

YOU have to look out for THEIR stupidities. During an emergency hospital admission for a blockage on scar tissue from my original Whipples Procedure, when my BG was dropping after the emergency surgery the Nurse insisted I needed more insulin because the Hospital's own Endocrinology Team had written that into their protocol. Defies belief! After I'd most robustly refused their intervention and then fallen asleep, this protocol was manuscript amended (corrected) - then the Duty Dr later denied it was ever changed (despite the evidence). 24 hrs later during a friendly discussion with a junior registrar, I asked about this discrepancy and she assured me there were safeguards and the protocol would have been fully scrutinised and tested. But when asked to explain or demonstrate that safety she went silent.

T3c is not particularly easy being 2 potentially conflicting ailments: diabetes and pancreatitis (for you). It might take more than a few weeks to get comfortably on top. You will get there. Good luck.
 
Proudtobeerratic,
Thanks a lot for comprehensive reply and for giving realistic expectations of journey ahead which as you say none of us know for certain as we already know your whole world can likely change within a day or days.
Like you I want to find out as much as possible so I can make rationale decisions especially when as you say some of the “ advisors” may not be totally up to speed.
Fortunately I do have access to a great GPs and a supportive DSN/ family and a diagnosis T3C (PPDM) and have access to a dietician etc and no other comorbidity s and of course have discovered the learnings offered by this forum.
will take each day at a time and if course concentrate on what you can do rather than what you can’t.
Anyway thanks once again and speak soon
 
Hi Wendal and everyone. Im like Wendal in my gratitude and appreciation for the support here. Just 2 weeks into this new life I have so much to learn. My treatment was changed this week after a call to the GP for advice led to an emergency appointment and sudden change of treatment - persistently high BS. My GP and surgery have been great but until I see a hospital specialist to get a formal diagnosis I’m now being treated as a type 1 patient. I hope to avoid the issues Roland experienced but now armed I’m in a better place to “manage out/up” the HCP around me should I need to - Thanks to you all!
 
Hi Wendal and everyone. Im like Wendal in my gratitude and appreciation for the support here. Just 2 weeks into this new life I have so much to learn. My treatment was changed this week after a call to the GP for advice led to an emergency appointment and sudden change of treatment - persistently high BS. My GP and surgery have been great but until I see a hospital specialist to get a formal diagnosis I’m now being treated as a type 1 patient. I hope to avoid the issues Roland experienced but now armed I’m in a better place to “manage out/up” the HCP around me should I need to - Thanks to you all!

Hi John.

Sorry to hear that you needed an emergency appointment but good to hear that your treatment has been upgraded. Do you now have a fast acting insulin for meal times as well as a long acting insulin? If so, which insulins are you now using? Also, have they prescribed Libre for you now, so that you don't have to self fund?
 
Hi Barbara. Yes I’ve been prescribed a Libre2 sensor and I’ve even downloaded sweet dreams so have constant display of my level on my watch.

I’m now Toupejo background and Humalog at meal times. I’m finally in the green zone on the Libre app and learning how to manage spike and drops. I’m still some weeks away from a hospital specialist so hope things will improve when they get involved.

Thank you for asking.

I assume (hope) you and the other more experienced diabetic travellers continue to be well and manage your BG levels with ease. I do hope so, the nightmare stories are too awful to contemplate.
 
Great to hear you are feeling like you have better tools to manage things now and you are hitting the green zone at last.

Yes, all good here with me thanks..... at least at the moment.... but I try not to think about the nightmare stories and focus on the fact that I am now fitter and healthier than I was pre-diagnosis and feel that I have a better quality of life. I am actually feeling quite smug today as I had lunch out with a friend and was naughty and had a dessert. Not just any dessert, but a sticky toffee pudding with ice cream. I normally follow a low carb way of eating so this was my first really naughty dessert since diagnosis 4.5 years ago and I only had a very slight excursion out of the green up to about 11 for a brief spell, so that counts as a serious victory. It will be a long time before I do it again, as I felt horribly full afterwards, but felt like it was a big win in the constant challenge that diabetes presents...... and it was rather nice! So grateful for Libre which is an amazing benefit in helping to manage my diabetes. Really pleased to hear that you now have it prescribed.
 
Thanks for that tip. I’ll give it a go!

I’ve been playing guitar for a year or two longer than I’ve had diabetes (30+ years) and can fully vouch for @TheClockworkDodo ’s recommendation. I have callouses on my fretting hand, more recently callouses on my fingerstyle bass hand, and also callouses on the sides of my fingerpricking fingers, but none of them inconvenience the others 🙂
 
Hello again @JohnC2001, just reading in another post from you this morning about your emergency admission to A&E, so thought it might be useful to check in and see how you are getting on?

I don't think I mentioned the risks from scar tissue after surgery. My admission to A&E in mid 2022 was because of a blocked colon, snagged on a bit of scar tissue after my original Whipple's Procedure in Feb 2020. This apparently is not as unavoidable as it might be, but needs a form of gentle massage quite early on post op to prevent the subsequent hardening. I have since found out there are Scar Tissue Therapists within the NHS, but also within the specialist organisations such as MacMillan and the Rennie Grove Organisation. This might be relevant if you've just had some further surgery.

Anyway, my original question was how are things?
Roland
 
Thanks so much for this kindness Roland.

Im doing fine thank you. I was admitted as I had another acute pancreatitis episode but it was complicated due to my diabetes which had caused a kidney infection! Just a few days hospitalised and sent home when stable, armed with meds.

I’ve been lucky in only needing “single incision surgery” so far. I’ve not had the complications (or horrors) you’ve had to endure. So I’m grateful and sanguine but I’m beginning to see why so many talk about mental health being important.

I imaged my retired sixties would be spent with a bottle of fine red wine at my elbow, and beef wellington inside me and large custard & spotted dick pudding awaiting the same fate. I didn’t think I’d need to inject myself, take pills and “evaluate” everything before I eat. I guess I’m beginning the process of mourning the loss of my previous healthy life - it was only 12 months ago that I was perfectly well.

I do wonder how people keep positive, especially when they’ve had hardships in their treatment and care?
 
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