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JohnC2001

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 3c
Hello people.

I’m newly diagnosed and new to this site too. Im a few months out of hospital after lengthy stay due to acute pancreatitis and now just been diagnosed as having type 3c diabetes.

This is all new to me and I'm only 7 days on Humulin I and still struggling to understand what is going on with my body and how best to manage things. My BG readings are very high but Ive had to reduce my units as I had 3 hypos in the first 4 days of insulin. I hope to learn from others here, especially from people with type 3c diagnoses as I've found little to educate and inform me in my ignorance!

I live in London so am hoping there are groups or events around me where I can learn and will look out for any suggestions, advice or sources of wisdom.

With advance thanks

John
 
Hi John and welcome.

Sorry to hear you qualify to join our ranks here but I am sure we will be able to help you. There is a huge wealth of knowledge and practical experience here and we have several regular Type 3c s who will I am sure be able to give you some helpful input as it can be a bit trickier than Type 1. You will however find that diabetes is very individual and it is very much a question of trying different approaches to see what works for you as an individual. Even within the Type 3c category, some have had their pancreas completely removed, some partially and some have a diseased or necrotized pancreas which may or may not partially function. If you are just recovering from pancreatitis (and you have my sympathies as I believe it is excruciatingly painful... my mother had 3 acute attacks) it may be that the inflammation will subside a bit and your insulin production may recover a bit and doses need reducing..... or it may not. So lots of variables.

The insulin you have been given, Humulin I.... Do you inject that once or twice a day and when?
Was there any pattern to when you experienced the hypos? ie were they mostly around a particular time of day or totally random.

Most of us are on what is called a basal/bolus insulin regime. This is where we have 2 different insulins. One is a slow release insulin (basal) which covers the glucose our liver trickles out day and night. Your Humulin I is more or less a basal insulin and I believe the Humulin I works best as a twice a day injection as it doesn't quite cover 24 hours, so if you were taking it all in one go, that might have been part of the issue with the hypos and splitting it might help, with the hyp problem. That said, if you are not also using a meal time (bolus) insulin to cover the glucose released from your food, then the Humulin dose may have been set too high to try to cover both functions (instead of giving ypu a mealtime insulin) and that may have been the cause of your highs and hypos because it isn't really capable of doing both jobs very well.

Sometimes I think health care professionals are too concerned about overwhelming us with too much to think about.... ie 2 different insulins to manage straight off, but don't realise that trying to make do with just one is also problematic.

Anyway, I am really sorry to hear that you had such a rough first week with your insulin and hopefully we will be able to help you iron out a few of the kinks and help you get your head around how it all works. If you can give us a bit more info about your routine with the Humulin and when the hypos occurred that may help us understand what was going on.
Also, do you have Freestyle Libre or other CGM or are you managing just with finger pricking to get your levels at the moment?
It would also help to know if you are needing Creon yet? This is a digestive enzyme supplement, because the pancreas also produces those and without them your body will struggle to break down your food and get nutrients from it..... which has the added problem of how what is left comes out the other end. If you need Creon, generally you know about it because your toilet visits become "challenging" shall we say, or so I have read.

I am going to tag @Proud to be erratic and @soupdragon as they are both Type 3c and will I am sure be able to fill in a lot more blanks for you and give you some reassurance.
 
Hi John, and my sympathies - it is always a lot to get your head around since most of us don't have the slightest clue about what all our various internal organs really do, or how they do it and never thought we'd need that info anyway, otherwise we'd have all trained to be doctors!

You could do a lot worse than register for the Diabetes UK Learning Zone and having a plod through some of that to try and get some better understanding - as you have been given insulin, I'd suggest fibbing and saying you have Type 1 diabetes since there isn't yet one specifically designed for any of the Type 3s. (T3 runs from a) to k) depending on exactly what caused it)

Same questions from me as the others have already asked, plus - who is actually looking after/advising you specifically about the diabetes aspect - I would hope it is a decent hospital diabetes clinic rather than just shoving it onto your GP?
 
Hi and welcome @JohnC2001
I'm also Type 3c following a lengthy stay in hospital with acute pancreatitis.

How are you getting on? I hope your recovery is going as well as possible.

I left hospital on Humulin I, which worked well for me at the time because I was still on overnight NJ feed and not managing to eat much. and so the profile of the Humulin I matched the food I was eating. Once I was eating a bit more and had the feeding tube removed I was switched to a basal bolus insulin regime (a long acting insulin once or twice a day and a short acting insulin before meals). In the long term this is much more flexible and when you're eating fairly normally again it should make it easier for you to manage the blood sugar levels.

If you're not already on Libre 2 (or similar GCM) then do push for it as it makes monitoring your blood glucose much easier. You may need to be on a basal bolus regime to qualify for it, which is another reason to ask your team about changing to it.

Just be aware that, due to the pancreatic damage, 3cs produce less glucagon (which raises glucose levels when low) which can make managing your glucose tricky.

Most of us with pancreatic damage also need to take digestive enzymes (such as Creon) so you may need to talk to your team about this.

Hoping your recovery continues well. Do ask if you have any questions.
 
Hello @JohnC2001, welcome to this forum.

Huge sympathies with what must seem like a very abrupt change to your world. In his book "Think Like a Pancreas" the author Gary Scheiner talks about Diabetes being 'Complicated, Confusing and Contradictory' and I certainly agree with that. Little in the diabetes world feels straightforward, your body doesn't always behave according to the "rules" that others say are the rules and each one of us is a bit different to another person with diabetes so we can best take note of what others are doing, try and move on if that isn't right for us! I did

I am T3c after a total pancreatectomy in Feb '20, to remove a cancerous tumour - so my end state circumstances are a bit different to yourself. But I remember the early days of trying to decide what I should do plus the many, many days when my BG was anything except normal. I wasn't given the Libre CGM for the 1st year, which was both a blessing and a curse. I'm grateful for learning how to survive with minimal tech, masses of finger pricking in conjunction with a basal/bolus regime of Multiple Daily Injections - but the availability of Libre 2 and the consequent opportunity to see where my BG was whenever I felt anxious did make a big difference. This did define the start of my marked inprovement with my BG management. By chance my body has never really worked harmoniously with Libre 2 so the readings have always been unreliable, but the trend arrows have always been accurate and so knowing whether my BG was stable, rising or falling was (still is) a great help.

I've seen your enquiry early today about Libre 2 and Apple watch, so am deducing you do have Libre and you are using an Apple phone, rather than a Freestyle Reader. It looks as though this might still not be resolved for you. I'm on Android, so can't help much your question. However, there are general limitations to using Libre, including that you MUST do a finger prick test if you feel that you might be hypo even though your Libre indicates otherwise and you MUST finger prick when Libre is showing readings out of normal range (4-10). Libre is not assured to be accurate outside of normal ranges. Also Libre is reading interstitial glucose (sub-cutaneous) and lags the actual BG that one gets from finger pricking. Hopefully you have been encouraged to watch the series of short videos from Abbott about the use of Libre 2.

All for now from me. As others have said it would be helpful to have a bit more information about your circumstances and details such as Creon, supervised by a DSN or GP Surgery, are you expecting to be changed from Humilin 1 soon? To the latter, if not what guidance have you been given about matching your insulin to your meals?

There is a fair amount more to T3c than T1, the possibility of recurring pancreatitis at different times and in different ways can add confusion to the already challenging circumstance of just managing "as if T1". But it is all manageable with time.
 
Welcome John

Sorry to hear about the hospital stay. You will find unutold knowledge here. You've definitely come to the right place.

I would say though, we've all got to start somewhere.

Good luck.
 
Dear all

Wow!

Thank you all so much... @rebrascora @Proud to be erratic @soupdragon @trophywench

You’re all so generous. I’m taken back.

In answer to the questions, I’ll turn 65 in 3 months and came out of hospital in Feb after 6 months and pancreatic challenges. I’ve been on Creons with Omerprazole and Buscopan since then. I have not been president the Libre2 as in my area they are only prescribed for type 1 diabetes apparently. I bought it as my fingers were getting sore after just a week or finger pricking and I play the guitar… I confess I fear damage to my fingers.

I have two injections of Humulin a day, before breakfast and dinner. However after walking the dog for just an hour I had a scary hypo when out alone with dog. Happily wasnt remote so able to get to shop for Lucozade and energy bar. Happened twice since so now I carry fruit pastilles with me.

I’ve been seen by GP diabetes nurse and have my first hospital appointment in September. Another reason I bought he Libre sensor was it felt like a long time to wait with erratic blood levels.

I had the turn off the high sugar alarms on the Libre app as I’m usually in the 20’s… followed by a crash. I’m learning how to eat differently but with the dietary restrictions of pancreatitis it’s not easy.

I’m an older man and wonder how age and gender affect things too. I’m doing ok and am able to remain sanguine but thought I was on a steep learning curve before your replies. I now realise at only stood at the base of a mountain to be climbed.

I’m so grateful for your replies and this space.


John
 
Oh wow! That is worrying that you had your first hypo when you didn't have any hypo treatments with you and you were alone. Were you not advised about carrying hypo treatments with you wherever you are, including most importantly pockets or a bag when you leave the house, by the bed (you do not want to be negotiating the stairs when hypo and half asleep, and in the car if you drive. Have you been advised regarding the rules about driving and notifying DVLA and your insurance... assuming you hold a driving licence?

Walking the dog is certainly something that is known for dropping levels as your muscles are effectively using up glucose from your blood as you walk and if you have recently injected insulin then it can make it more effective. Shopping at the supermarket and having a hot bath (I also keep hypo treatments in the bathroom) are other activities that can catch you out as well as intimate bedroom activities (again, hypo treatments on the bedside table are handy). It is the amount of thought and headspace that you need to give diabetes when using insulin which is surprising. It isn't just about food but all sorts of other stuff and mostly being prepared and keeping yourself safe. It has been likened to learning to drive and I think that is a really good analogy. If you are a driver and you can think back to the first time you got behind the wheel and everything seemed so incredibly complicated and you had to check that the car was out of gear before starting it and focus on steering and changing gear and looking in the mirror and indicating and what speed you were doing and you really had to concentrate on each little task, but gradually as you got more practice, you start doing those things on autopilot and then you just had to think about the road markings and hazards on any new roads you found yourself on and the road signs to get you where you need to be. Your diabetes will eventually go into a sort of autopilot for routine days but you need to give more thought to one off events and doing things off the cuff is more challenging.

There is a huge amount to learn and 4.5 years down the line, I am still learning, but most of what I know was gleaned from the good people on this forum and it really has been a lifeline, so stick around and feel free to ask any questions you have, but remember to take things at your own pace. "Diabetes is a marathon and not a sprint" as we are very fond of saying here on the forum. Learn at your own pace and don't let it overwhelm you too much. It takes time and experience to get reasonable BG results and stability, so you have to accept that things will be rocky at first and you will get it wrong quite often and that is OK because generally you learn a lot more from those particular incidents than you do from the occasions when you get it right. Thankfully, mostly we survive the near misses like your dog walk and learn from them and I am sure we can all relate similar stories, but gradually you will get better at it and start getting more in range readings than highs or lows and it will start to become more intuitive, but you have to accept that diabetes will throw a spanner in the works from time to time and you have to just dig in and keep doing all the right things and wait for it to come right again.... and so far for me it has, but those difficult times are frustrating. Don't blame yourself when they happen because it is just the nature of the beast and it is common for the goal posts to move just when you have got the hang of hitting the net!
 
I'm sure I've missed or forgotten much of the information that I was "hosed down" with when I was first spoken to so thank you, this is all much appreciated.
I love your use of that expression "hosed down" because it is a bit like being hit with a water canon not just a hose. I know half of what I was told went in one ear and out of the other and the forum here was a godsend for filling in the blanks in between.
 
Dear all

Wow!

Thank you all so much... @rebrascora @Proud to be erratic @soupdragon @trophywench

You’re all so generous. I’m taken back.

In answer to the questions, I’ll turn 65 in 3 months and came out of hospital in Feb after 6 months and pancreatic challenges. I’ve been on Creons with Omerprazole and Buscopan since then.
John, I'm going to reply to this posting by you a bit at a time, with my thoughts or observations on what you've said.
asso, as @rebrascora previously said, Creon is an important medication for you after the damage to your pancreas. It is officially referred to as Pancreatic Enzyme Replacement Therapy (PERT) and as far as I can tell Creon is the most commonly found PERT medication in UK. There are other capsules, which all seem broadly similar in behaviour. Creon is prescribed as capsules of 10,000 units or of 25,000. I take lots, around 30 per day of 25k capsules, but there is no "minimum or maximum" - you need what you need and I generally know a few hours later if I have underdosed or (sometimes) just forgotten!

A one-off missed Creon dose is not super critical. But in due course (I hope) you will be introduced to the twin basal/bolus insulin regime and you will need to carb count to match your carbs consumed to the insulin you are taking. It becomes important to fully digest the carbs you are eating and thus be able to depend on your carb count against that full digestion - otherwise you are chasing flying pigs. I spent over a year post op only partially digesting (a tricky bacterial infection) so it took me a long time to find some carb / insulin stability.

In the unlikely event that Creon turns out to not suit you well, there are alternatives. Also PERT is not just for those of us with pancreatic damage; there are other medical reasons why people are prescribed PERT.
I have not been president the Libre2 as in my area they are only prescribed for type 1 diabetes apparently. I bought it as my fingers were getting sore after just a week or finger pricking and I play the guitar… I confess I fear damage to my fingers.
It is disappointing to read that someone has said they can't prescribe Libre 2 in your area. Whoever said this is downright wrong. You are T3c and as if T1, but with extra complications. All T1s are entitled to Libre as laid out in the updated NICE Guidance Note from spring 2022. This has taken a few months to become accepted, but I naively thought this was now 'done and dusted' and writing that prescription is now entirely within the gift of your GP. In previous years it needed to be supported by a Consultant, but that should now be history.

That said, I think there is merit in learning how to manage without Libre, because the tech can (and does) go wrong. But since you have chosen to self-fund to help protect your fingers - you are old enough to make your own decisions on managing your BG ... So who has said no and we'll offer you ideas for how to get that resolved.

Concerning sore fingers, sometimes there are better and at other times not so good actual lancet devices. But in principle the devices have a range of depth settings and it is normally advised to start on the shallowest setting and build up from there. Those of us with poorer circulation use warm water to help, or cuddle a hot mug of liquid; I regularly give my hand a strong shake and make an effort to hold my hand low, before the actual pricking. There are a number of videos showing techniques and there will very likely be a video from the manufacturer of your device; you might find help there. Also try a search on this forum (the magnifying glass top right) where this topic frequently appears and read what others have found works for them.

All for now, will return to this posting later.
I have two injections of Humulin a day, before breakfast and dinner. However after walking the dog for just an hour I had a scary hypo when out alone with dog. Happily wasnt remote so able to get to shop for Lucozade and energy bar. Happened twice since so now I carry fruit pastilles with me.

I’ve been seen by GP diabetes nurse and have my first hospital appointment in September. Another reason I bought he Libre sensor was it felt like a long time to wait with erratic blood levels.

I had the turn off the high sugar alarms on the Libre app as I’m usually in the 20’s… followed by a crash. I’m learning how to eat differently but with the dietary restrictions of pancreatitis it’s not easy.

I’m an older man and wonder how age and gender affect things too. I’m doing ok and am able to remain sanguine but thought I was on a steep learning curve before your replies. I now realise at only stood at the base of a mountain to be climbed.

I’m so grateful for your replies and this space.


John
 
Welcome @JohnC2001 but sorry that you have needed to join our ranks. There is a wealth of knowledge to tap into as you have already seen. Which is good as there is so much to take on board at the start. ‘hosed down’ is an excellent metaphor.

The only thought from reading through your posts and replies is to push for the Libre on NHS. Your hospital team should be able to make a case for you. In Type 3c the diabetes bit is managed in a very similar ways T1, and the benefits of the Libre are the same for you as it is for us. Great that you have been able to fund it yourself at present, but you should be able to access it on NHS.

let us know how you get on.
 
Dear all

Wow!

Thank you all so much... @rebrascora @Proud to be erratic @soupdragon @trophywench

You’re all so generous. I’m taken back.

In answer to the questions, I’ll turn 65 in 3 months and came out of hospital in Feb after 6 months and pancreatic challenges. I’ve been on Creons with Omerprazole and Buscopan since then. I have not been president the Libre2 as in my area they are only prescribed for type 1 diabetes apparently. I bought it as my fingers were getting sore after just a week or finger pricking and I play the guitar… I confess I fear damage to my fingers.

I have two injections of Humulin a day, before breakfast and dinner. However after walking the dog for just an hour I had a scary hypo when out alone with dog. Happily wasnt remote so able to get to shop for Lucozade and energy bar. Happened twice since so now I carry fruit pastilles with me.

I’ve been seen by GP diabetes nurse and have my first hospital appointment in September. Another reason I bought he Libre sensor was it felt like a long time to wait with erratic blood levels.

I had the turn off the high sugar alarms on the Libre app as I’m usually in the 20’s… followed by a crash. I’m learning how to eat differently but with the dietary restrictions of pancreatitis it’s not easy.

I’m an older man and wonder how age and gender affect things too. I’m doing ok and am able to remain sanguine but thought I was on a steep learning curve before your replies. I now realise at only stood at the base of a mountain to be climbed.

I’m so grateful for your replies and this space.




John
Good to hear that you do have a hospital appointment coming up fairly soon. You should be entitled to Libre as a Type 3c.
Also good that you've bought sensors in the meantime which should be very helpful. I set the low alarm at the maximum 5.6 at any time when I'm at all active to try to avoid hypos if possible.

The effect of Humulin I is greatest a few hours after taking it (if you google Humulin I insulin profiles you can find graphs which show this) so just be aware that there will be times of the day when you have a lot of insulin on board, making hypos more likely.
 
John, I'm going to reply to this posting by you a bit at a time, with my thoughts or observations on what you've said.
asso, as @rebrascora previously said, Creon is an important medication for you after the damage to your pancreas. It is officially referred to as Pancreatic Enzyme Replacement Therapy (PERT) and as far as I can tell Creon is the most commonly found PERT medication in UK. There are other capsules, which all seem broadly similar in behaviour. Creon is prescribed as capsules of 10,000 units or of 25,000. I take lots, around 30 per day of 25k capsules, but there is no "minimum or maximum" - you need what you need and I generally know a few hours later if I have underdosed or (sometimes) just forgotten!

A one-off missed Creon dose is not super critical. But in due course (I hope) you will be introduced to the twin basal/bolus insulin regime and you will need to carb count to match your carbs consumed to the insulin you are taking. It becomes important to fully digest the carbs you are eating and thus be able to depend on your carb count against that full digestion - otherwise you are chasing flying pigs. I spent over a year post op only partially digesting (a tricky bacterial infection) so it took me a long time to find some carb / insulin stability.

In the unlikely event that Creon turns out to not suit you well, there are alternatives. Also PERT is not just for those of us with pancreatic damage; there are other medical reasons why people are prescribed PERT.

It is disappointing to read that someone has said they can't prescribe Libre 2 in your area. Whoever said this is downright wrong. You are T3c and as if T1, but with extra complications. All T1s are entitled to Libre as laid out in the updated NICE Guidance Note from spring 2022. This has taken a few months to become accepted, but I naively thought this was now 'done and dusted' and writing that prescription is now entirely within the gift of your GP. In previous years it needed to be supported by a Consultant, but that should now be history.

That said, I think there is merit in learning how to manage without Libre, because the tech can (and does) go wrong. But since you have chosen to self-fund to help protect your fingers - you are old enough to make your own decisions on managing your BG ... So who has said no and we'll offer you ideas for how to get that resolved.

Concerning sore fingers, sometimes there are better and at other times not so good actual lancet devices. But in principle the devices have a range of depth settings and it is normally advised to start on the shallowest setting and build up from there. Those of us with poorer circulation use warm water to help, or cuddle a hot mug of liquid; I regularly give my hand a strong shake and make an effort to hold my hand low, before the actual pricking. There are a number of videos showing techniques and there will very likely be a video from the manufacturer of your device; you might find help there. Also try a search on this forum (the magnifying glass top right) where this topic frequently appears and read what others have found works for them.

All for now, will return to this posting later.
Thank you so much for this, you've (all) been incredibly generous. My feeling is that the GP Practice diabetes nurse is offering me a 'holding treatment' until my first hospital appointment in September. Consequently Im happy to pay and use the Libre 2 as Im still finger pricking but only 3 times a day to correlate with Libre and get accurate measurements before insulin dosing. When the hospital see me I will ask about NHS provision and a change in insulin regime; thank you for your helpful thoughts.
 
Hi John and welcome to the forum 🙂

Just one thing to add to all the information people have already given you - when you prick your fingers, were you told to only prick the sides and not the finger tips? Near - but not too near! - to the sides of your nails is the best place, and it shouldn't hurt if you prick there (so long as your pricking device isn't turned up too high) and shouldn't damage your fingers or effect your guitar playing. Also, you may have been told to only prick one or two fingers, but most of us prick all our fingers and thumbs in turn, both sides, so we can have a rota of 20 different places to prick.
 
Hi John and welcome to the forum 🙂

Just one thing to add to all the information people have already given you - when you prick your fingers, were you told to only prick the sides and not the finger tips? Near - but not too near! - to the sides of your nails is the best place, and it shouldn't hurt if you prick there (so long as your pricking device isn't turned up too high) and shouldn't damage your fingers or effect your guitar playing. Also, you may have been told to only prick one or two fingers, but most of us prick all our fingers and thumbs in turn, both sides, so we can have a rota of 20 different places to prick.
Excellent tips there.

I also tilt the pen so I can see exactly how close the opening is to my finger. I had the pen on the lowest setting but still seemed to be a bit hit and miss.
 
Thank you so much for this, you've (all) been incredibly generous.
John, continuing my thoughts ...

Remaining sanguine is excellent, well done. Going off on a tangent for a moment one of the generic complications of diabetes is that there are loads of factors that can affect our BG (a list of 20 was recently updated to become 42 factors) and stress is a big hitter of BG. Stress can be from emotional variations, from pure worry and even from illness. Back in 2020 I knelt on a thorn, didn't realise and later that night my BG rose inexplicably (to me). My knee wasn't painful at first , uncomfortable a day later and eventually I needed a GP nurse to treat, followed by urgent referral direct to a Specialist at my local hospital, strong antibiotics and 9 days in a leg brace to sort that out. My BG remained stubbornly high for 5+ days - simply because my body was, behind the scenes, fighting the infection. Illness (= medical stress) is a common explanation for elevated BG. I was lucky to get such prompt treatment and referral; I was undergoing chemo at the time, so very well looked after.

Something I said yesterday about carbs and insulin was lazily written by me. I should have talked about matching insulin to carbs, not the other way around. When you are going low or hypo you respond by eating high GI carbs such as Pastilles. One is at that moment, very necessarily, chasing the excess of insulin with carbs. But in general the goal is for one to count the carbs going to be consumed and take an appropriate insulin dose to offset those carbs, ie the insulin is chasing the carbs. The carb counting is the primary step. But understanding your body's metabolism and its responsiveness to insulin is an art rather than a science; so we try to manage the timings of glucose arriving in our blood stream against the time needed for insulin injected in a sub-cutaneous place to reach your actual blood. Don't be daunted by this, we all learn what works for us and over time get better at smoothing the peaks and troughs displayed on our libre graphs. And we do this without necessarily reading a reference book on metabolism!
My feeling is that the GP Practice diabetes nurse is offering me a 'holding treatment' until my first hospital appointment in September.
I think it is helpful to understand a bit about who does what in the world of the NHS. This, of course, needs a 31 volume reference library and would still be wrong! But in principle Type 2 diabetes is managed at GP level - by definition. The National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE) have laid down that T2 (some 90% of people in UK with Diabetes) comes under General Practice and T1s are to be managed by Hospital Specialists. Other types (with descriptors such as LADA, MODY, T3 [ie recognisable by virtually no-one outside the medical world] [except Gestational diabetes]) are in such small quantities they also should fall under hospital teams.

In my non-medical opinion no GP or Practice Nurse is going to be sufficiently knowledgeable to provide appropriate treatment for T3c. You are as if T1, but with the added complication of pancreatitis - and as you have already remarked that pancreatitis has a huge bearing on what you can eat and thus what you are willing to risk eating. So insulin dosing is a big deal to match your carb intake and this is well beyond what any Practice Nurse or GP routinely deals with. This is not me being blatantly rude about GP Surgeries, just reflecting the harsh reality that your diabetes needs the right specialist. I'm surprised that you were discharged from Hospital back to GP care, rather than to your local Hospital Team - where there would normally be a Diabetes Specialist Nurse (DSN) who works in close collaboration with Endocrinologist Consultants and both supported by specialist dieticians.
Consequently Im happy to pay and use the Libre 2 as Im still finger pricking but only 3 times a day to correlate with Libre and get accurate measurements before insulin dosing. When the hospital see me I will ask about NHS provision and a change in insulin regime; thank you for your helpful thoughts.
Yes, good pragmatic (and low stress) perspective.
Returning to your previous post

I have two injections of Humulin a day, before breakfast and dinner.
I know extremely little about humulin having only encountered a basal/bolus regime. To me humulin feels counter intuitive and constraining. But no doubt the hospital had a better perspective of your needs.
However after walking the dog for just an hour I had a scary hypo when out alone with dog. Happily wasnt remote so able to get to shop for Lucozade and energy bar. Happened twice since so now I carry fruit pastilles with me.
@rebrascora is right. I have hypo treatments close to hand at all times and everywhere in the house.
Do you drive? The answer to that has various ramifications, but could also provide a lever for getting you prescribed CGM.
I’ve been seen by GP diabetes nurse and have my first hospital appointment in September. Another reason I bought he Libre sensor was it felt like a long time to wait with erratic blood levels.

I had the turn off the high sugar alarms on the Libre app as I’m usually in the 20’s… followed by a crash.
The alarms can be a nuisance. In passing, have you worked through the Freestyle series of short videos. If Libre were being prescribed the NHS make viewing those obligatory. They provide a glossy spin on Libre 2, but are still pertinent even though some of the Libre limitations are underplayed.

My diabetes from having no pancreas whatsoever, is described as brittle. I can crash very abruptly, because I'm missing all of the other pancreatic functions, which might otherwise provide some checks and balances between insulin release and glucose releases from the liver store. Have you been able to make time to read up about what a normal pancreas does? I looked on the Panreatic Cancer website and found great info there; but I'm sure there was an equivalent site for pancreatitis help.
I’m learning how to eat differently but with the dietary restrictions of pancreatitis it’s not easy.
Yes, not necessarily appreciated even by Specialists.
I’m an older man and wonder how age and gender affect things too.
I'm 74 this month. Now I've pushed the cancer into remission and because I diligently count my carbs (and eat my spinach) I'm taking such good care of my D and my general well being that my aspiration is for another 40 years. It's my brain cells that I can't truly keep working so well as in previous years.

Slightly less glib - I notice aches and pains more and sometimes feel older but I intend to pace myself better. I do most things I've ever done, just some less frequently. And the diabetes does cause me to get out walking, if no longer sprinting, because the exercise is an alternative way of lowering BG highs, as an alternative to taking corrective insulin doses. That reflects my confidence in my ability to manage my D - learnt over the last 3 years - rather than my desire to save the NHS the cost of a few units of insulin.
I’m doing ok and am able to remain sanguine but thought I was on a steep learning curve before your replies. I now realise at only stood at the base of a mountain to be climbed.
The mountain has, for me, become a more modest, manageable hill.
I’m so grateful for your replies and this space.

John
 
John, continuing my thoughts ...

Remaining sanguine is excellent, well done. Going off on a tangent for a moment one of the generic complications of diabetes is that there are loads of factors that can affect our BG (a list of 20 was recently updated to become 42 factors) and stress is a big hitter of BG. Stress can be from emotional variations, from pure worry and even from illness. Back in 2020 I knelt on a thorn, didn't realise and later that night my BG rose inexplicably (to me). My knee wasn't painful at first , uncomfortable a day later and eventually I needed a GP nurse to treat, followed by urgent referral direct to a Specialist at my local hospital, strong antibiotics and 9 days in a leg brace to sort that out. My BG remained stubbornly high for 5+ days - simply because my body was, behind the scenes, fighting the infection. Illness (= medical stress) is a common explanation for elevated BG. I was lucky to get such prompt treatment and referral; I was undergoing chemo at the time, so very well looked after.

Something I said yesterday about carbs and insulin was lazily written by me. I should have talked about matching insulin to carbs, not the other way around. When you are going low or hypo you respond by eating high GI carbs such as Pastilles. One is at that moment, very necessarily, chasing the excess of insulin with carbs. But in general the goal is for one to count the carbs going to be consumed and take an appropriate insulin dose to offset those carbs, ie the insulin is chasing the carbs. The carb counting is the primary step. But understanding your body's metabolism and its responsiveness to insulin is an art rather than a science; so we try to manage the timings of glucose arriving in our blood stream against the time needed for insulin injected in a sub-cutaneous place to reach your actual blood. Don't be daunted by this, we all learn what works for us and over time get better at smoothing the peaks and troughs displayed on our libre graphs. And we do this without necessarily reading a reference book on metabolism!

I think it is helpful to understand a bit about who does what in the world of the NHS. This, of course, needs a 31 volume reference library and would still be wrong! But in principle Type 2 diabetes is managed at GP level - by definition. The National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE) have laid down that T2 (some 90% of people in UK with Diabetes) comes under General Practice and T1s are to be managed by Hospital Specialists. Other types (with descriptors such as LADA, MODY, T3 [ie recognisable by virtually no-one outside the medical world] [except Gestational diabetes]) are in such small quantities they also should fall under hospital teams.

In my non-medical opinion no GP or Practice Nurse is going to be sufficiently knowledgeable to provide appropriate treatment for T3c. You are as if T1, but with the added complication of pancreatitis - and as you have already remarked that pancreatitis has a huge bearing on what you can eat and thus what you are willing to risk eating. So insulin dosing is a big deal to match your carb intake and this is well beyond what any Practice Nurse or GP routinely deals with. This is not me being blatantly rude about GP Surgeries, just reflecting the harsh reality that your diabetes needs the right specialist. I'm surprised that you were discharged from Hospital back to GP care, rather than to your local Hospital Team - where there would normally be a Diabetes Specialist Nurse (DSN) who works in close collaboration with Endocrinologist Consultants and both supported by specialist dieticians.

Yes, good pragmatic (and low stress) perspective.
Returning to your previous post


I know extremely little about humulin having only encountered a basal/bolus regime. To me humulin feels counter intuitive and constraining. But no doubt the hospital had a better perspective of your needs.

@rebrascora is right. I have hypo treatments close to hand at all times and everywhere in the house.
Do you drive? The answer to that has various ramifications, but could also provide a lever for getting you prescribed CGM.

The alarms can be a nuisance. In passing, have you worked through the Freestyle series of short videos. If Libre were being prescribed the NHS make viewing those obligatory. They provide a glossy spin on Libre 2, but are still pertinent even though some of the Libre limitations are underplayed.

My diabetes from having no pancreas whatsoever, is described as brittle. I can crash very abruptly, because I'm missing all of the other pancreatic functions, which might otherwise provide some checks and balances between insulin release and glucose releases from the liver store. Have you been able to make time to read up about what a normal pancreas does? I looked on the Panreatic Cancer website and found great info there; but I'm sure there was an equivalent site for pancreatitis help.

Yes, not necessarily appreciated even by Specialists.

I'm 74 this month. Now I've pushed the cancer into remission and because I diligently count my carbs (and eat my spinach) I'm taking such good care of my D and my general well being that my aspiration is for another 40 years. It's my brain cells that I can't truly keep working so well as in previous years.

Slightly less glib - I notice aches and pains more and sometimes feel older but I intend to pace myself better. I do most things I've ever done, just some less frequently. And the diabetes does cause me to get out walking, if no longer sprinting, because the exercise is an alternative way of lowering BG highs, as an alternative to taking corrective insulin doses. That reflects my confidence in my ability to manage my D - learnt over the last 3 years - rather than my desire to save the NHS the cost of a few units of insulin.

The mountain has, for me, become a more modest, manageable hill.
Thank you so much for all this. I really appreciate the time and effort involved to share your experience and learning.

Just to clarify, when I left hospital I was discharged with a regime of PERT and digestive medicines but had no sign of diabetes. Four months after discharge I was beginning to struggle again and GP ordered a range of tests, one of which showed I had become diabetic. My GP made hospital referral but until then I’m being seen by the practice nurse. I think this is why my treatment isnt working as well as I’d hoped; following your thinking it makes sense that maybe the nurse will not have the experience (or authority?) to prescribe anything different/extra?

I’m been vigilant with my diet but I feel like a drunk negotiating a chicane in an articulated lorry. I’m swerving and crashing left, right and centre. I hope the help here will improve my driving.

cheers

John
 
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