Hello, I'm new here.

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I read and take in what each of you is saying, but at the end of the day, whichever way I choose, is what I consider to hopefully be the best for myself.

Thanks for being understanding @brettr

Sometimes forum members get quite passionate in defence of approaches that they find helpful. Apologies that the exchanges on your thread got a little confrontational.

Always unfortunate when that happens on a newcomer’s thread. :(

Good luck with whichever strategy, or combination of approaches you decide to try 🙂
 
I have just taken a look at the soup and shake diet page, surprisingly I heard about this on TV a few nights back on the late news. It is worth checking this out with my Dr or the Diabetic Nurses, to see what they say or think about it. The Mediterranean diet also sounds very good.

The soup and shake diet sounds a better option for me, as they keep an eye on you and give you encouragement to maintain the changes I /you would need, I think for a lot of people, lack of encouragement is one of the biggest problems that can cause lapses back into old habits or basically just giving up on the goals you are setting for yourself. At the end of the day, you are truly only letting yourself down if you fail.

No, you have not added to my confusion, I am the sort of person that needs encouragement, knowing myself the way I do, I will give up after so long, as I become disenchanted with myself.

I realise the medications I am taking are there to help, I just don't like some of the side effects that come with them ! The biggest one for me is constantly feeling bloated, which leads to quite a bit of breaking wind (trying to be polite there lol), I know that I am overweight for my height, so I do have a lot of weight to lose. The bloating I deal with makes me constantly look chunkier than I should be for what I actually eat.

I suppose their is no one way for helping to lose weight and getting my diabetes under control, usual trial and error most of the time. It comes down to knowing what works for you.

I chose this method to reverse my diabetes.
I found the advantage was it broke my link with food, so cut all the bad habits.
I went onto a Mediterranean style diet afterwards.
Overall I lost around 5 stones and reversed my diabetes.
I don't need to diet control my type 2 now, so whatever you choose, good luck.
 
The soup and shake diet sounds a better option for me, as they keep an eye on you and give you encouragement to maintain the changes I /you would need, I think for a lot of people, lack of encouragement is one of the biggest problems that can cause lapses back into old habits or basically just giving up on the goals you are setting for yourself.
That's the great advantage of the NHS Low Calorie Diet programme: it comes with personalised support and encouragement for a whole year. Most people need that in order to lay down good solid new habits and avoid lapsing back into old ones.

Currently, the main problem is that this programme is not yet available in all parts of the UK, and not even in all areas of England. Your GP or diabetes nurse will be able to tell you whether it's available in your area. (And, if it's not yet, might be able to tell you when it will be.)

Even if this programme is not available in your area yet, your GP surgery might be willing and able to do basically the same thing. NHS guidance on what GPs should be doing is here: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/health...-weight/how-your-gp-can-help-you-lose-weight/ . You'll see this includes saying your GP or practice nurse should help you devise a specific diet and exercise plan and then "should offer you regular follow-up appointments, usually every 2 weeks to a month". Also, some local-authority community health services, and some hospitals, have set up programmes to provide the sort of support and encouragement people need; again, your GP would know and could refer you.

Anyway, best of luck, and, when you have a chance, let us know how you get on!
 
That's the great advantage of the NHS Low Calorie Diet programme: it comes with personalised support and encouragement for a whole year. Most people need that in order to lay down good solid new habits and avoid lapsing back into old ones.

Currently, the main problem is that this programme is not yet available in all parts of the UK, and not even in all areas of England. Your GP or diabetes nurse will be able to tell you whether it's available in your area. (And, if it's not yet, might be able to tell you when it will be.)

Even if this programme is not available in your area yet, your GP surgery might be willing and able to do basically the same thing. NHS guidance on what GPs should be doing is here: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/health...-weight/how-your-gp-can-help-you-lose-weight/ . You'll see this includes saying your GP or practice nurse should help you devise a specific diet and exercise plan and then "should offer you regular follow-up appointments, usually every 2 weeks to a month". Also, some local-authority community health services, and some hospitals, have set up programmes to provide the sort of support and encouragement people need; again, your GP would know and could refer you.

Anyway, best of luck, and, when you have a chance, let us know how you get on!

Even before I did the shake diet, (which was only just being talked about, I did mine with Tesco shakes). I had great support from my GP, nursed, NHS dietician, NHS physio and gym, and a lot of other self help exercise classes and courses.
I did put a lot of commitment into it in return.
 
My T2D remission is due to Low Carb (ignoring calories). I found all the encouragement I needed from a combination of Lower BG meter readings and weight loss. They showed it was working, even though I couldn't (still can't) understand how I lost so much weight ( 2 stone from 12st 2lbs) so quickly, without consciously cutting (or even counting) calories.

Since the Newcastle Diet/Fast 800/ NHS diet are all effectively low carb (due to being so low calorie) and weight loss is about the same as on low carb with normal calories, I just can't see why people prefer to take the starvation route!
 
My T2D remission is due to Low Carb (ignoring calories). I found all the encouragement I needed from a combination of Lower BG meter readings and weight loss. They showed it was working, even though I couldn't (still can't) understand how I lost so much weight ( 2 stone from 12st 2lbs) so quickly, without consciously cutting (or even counting) calories.

Since the Newcastle Diet/Fast 800/ NHS diet are all effectively low carb (due to being so low calorie) and weight loss is about the same as on low carb with normal calories, I just can't see why people prefer to take the starvation route!

It's by no means starvation.
That's just a "scary" buzzword some people like to use.
It's nothing to be scared of, despite what people try to portray it as to you.

All why lock your entire future into low carb, when you could reverse your diabetes and eat anything?
I like food, I like eating out, and above all, I like trying the variety of anything on offer, without having to google the carb content, or just stick to what I know or can recognise.
Each to their own way of coping though.
 
It's by no means starvation.
That's just a "scary" buzzword some people like to use.
It's nothing to be scared of, despite what people try to portray it as to you.

All why lock your entire future into low carb, when you could reverse your diabetes and eat anything?
I like food, I like eating out, and above all, I like trying the variety of anything on offer, without having to google the carb content, or just stick to what I know or can recognise.
Each to their own way of coping though.
The latest follow-up to the DIRECT study shows that only 11 out of 149 were still in remission after 5yrs and several of those had had to do the 12 weeks of 800 calorie shakes several times during that period.

So for the vast majority, it isn't as straightforward as you suggest.
Prof Tim Spector says the DIRECT shakes method is unsustainable (at least in his opinion)!
Note that I, personally feel he is too focussed on current plant based food fa, rather than traditional food.
 
The latest follow-up to the DIRECT study shows that only 11 out of 149 were still in remission after 5yrs and several of those had had to do the 12 weeks of 800 calorie shakes several times during that period.

So for the vast majority, it isn't as straightforward as you suggest.
Prof Tim Spector says the DIRECT shakes method is unsustainable (at least in his opinion)!
Note that I, personally feel he is too focussed on current plant based food fa, rather than traditional food.

Fortunately, my body has the ability to do it's own thing.
Thankfully it doesn't read or listen to the doubters.
It just enjoys a good curry sometimes.
Today for example.

IMG_20230425_125842_5.jpg
The op has also expressed the opinion that they will decide their own path, we should respect that.
 
The latest follow-up to the DIRECT study shows that only 11 out of 149 were still in remission after 5yrs and several of those had had to do the 12 weeks of 800 calorie shakes several times during that period.

So for the vast majority, it isn't as straightforward as you suggest.
Prof Tim Spector says the DIRECT shakes method is unsustainable (at least in his opinion)!
On the other hand, that was "was more than three times" the proportion of people in the control group who achieved remission and sustained it for 5 years: https://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/articles/latest/2023/04/type2diabetesintoremissionfor5years/

(The full study doesn't appear to have been published yet; this article says the results "will be presented at the Diabetes UK Professional Conference 2023 in Liverpool on 26 April." I hope the Diabetes UK site will report on the highlights of this conference!)

Also-- I can't find any evidence that Prof Spector has ever done any research on remission of Type 2.

When you say "Prof Tim Spector says the DIRECT shakes method is unsustainable", that sounds like a misunderstanding. The idea is not that people should use total meal replacements-- the shakes-- forever; the idea is that a short period with the shakes kick-starts your loss of visceral fat, and then you move to a normal healthy diet to lose more weight and keep it off. The problem is that, unfortunately, many people find a normal healthy diet unsustainable.

Having done a little searching, I think you may be thinking of this article in the Daily Mail? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...ams-NHS-soup-shake-diet-REVERSE-diabetes.html :

"Professor Tim Spector, co-founder of nutrition company ZOE, told MailOnline that ... it is 'completely the wrong message' to give people who are desperately trying to slim down that they can use ultra-processed substitutes to do so".

Well, from everything I've read, of course he's right that in general ultra-processed foods are bad for us! But-- again, the idea is *not* that people use these shakes forever. The idea is a short, sharp kick-start, and then you move to a normal healthy diet, which of course means (amongst other things) not eating too many ultra-processed foods.

Oh, and, hmm ... I hadn't realised Prof Spector had set up his own "nutrition company" ...

The NHS Low Calorie Diet Programme-- based on the research done by Prof Taylor and others around the world, *specifically* on remission of Type 2 diabetes-- is free.

Prof Spector suggests that you can lose a lot of weight without reducing your calorie intake-- and his company will tell you how, if you pay them a minimum of £25 per month plus £300 for testing (and it's only as little as £25 per month if you pay upfront for 12 months): https://joinzoe.com/faqs/gb#pricing ...

Which is not to say that there is nothing in Prof Spector's ideas! The actual scientific research done by him and his colleagues makes some very important and interesting points. But then so does Prof Taylor's work. It's a shame to see Prof Spector adopting the sort of tone he used in the Daily Mail article, when, in an ideal world, he and Prof Taylor would be collaborating.

But-- this sort of thing tends to happen when a lot of money is involved. Prof Spector's company, Zoe, has raised over £70 million in venture-capital funding: https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/01/z...s-30m-at-a-303m-valuation-to-track-nutrition/ . Venture-capital investors don't just want their money back, they want it back plus a huge profit. So of course they want to persuade people that the free NHS programme isn't even worth trying; to them, the UK's 4 million Type 2 diabetics are a valuable market. (If even one in eight of them could be persuaded to sign up to Zoe even just for a year-- that would be £300 million.)

Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with trying the Zoe plan, or that it won't work for some people; just means a little scepticism is in order.
 
I think it does bear repeating what has been said elsewhere (though maybe not directly in this thread) that if you choose to go the low calorie weight loss route, it doesn't have to be shakes unless that is what you agree with your health professionals. There is a link floating around somewhere from one of the researchers from the D1rect study with suggested homemade soups to use instead. There is the risk of vitamin deficiency then as the commercial shakes/soups are supplemented but you can always add in a multivitamin if you are concerned about that.

I chose to go low carb and also reduce calories to lose weight, but I have done all the planning myself (and some days I "spend" the carbs on small amounts of foods with higher carb levels like chocolate and bread, rather than sticking solely to foods that are all lower carb). That has worked (so far at least) for me. I try to avoid sweeteners as much as possible so that factored into my decision to avoid the commercial meal replacement products. During the summer-ish months last year (I was diagnosed in August) I mostly had salads for lunches, over the winter I have mostly had homemade soups (batch cooked and refrigerated or frozen in portions). I haven't followed the recipes mentioned above as I have often made the soups out of what was available reduced (or free via Olio) and balanced it as needed.
 
Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with trying the Zoe plan, or that it won't work for some people; just means a little scepticism is in order.
Or maybe great big lashings of scepticism, for a great big grift.

I think anybody looking into Zoe should check out views from Nicola Guess & others as part of their diligence.

Including this key insight for understanding how diet-related grifts like Zoe are usually constructed:

Sadly this is what lots of people do when they’re trying to sell a product with a veneer of legitimacy behind it: make 75% of statements reasonable and evidence-based, and people will just assume the other 25% is legit too.


 
Thanks for being understanding @brettr

Sometimes forum members get quite passionate in defence of approaches that they find helpful. Apologies that the exchanges on your thread got a little confrontational.

Always unfortunate when that happens on a newcomer’s thread. :(

Good luck with whichever strategy, or combination of approaches you decide to try 🙂
It's not a problem, I do understand that people will be passionate about how they have approached their Diabetes. They were not particularly confrontational, just each voicing their opinions.

I am having a diabetic review on 20 May, and will be mentioning a few of the things said to me on here, including about the low carb diet and the soup and shake diet.
 
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