Hello from New Zealand

[Geministar1]

Hello, I've been diagnosed type 2 for 2 years and had a high hba1c of 136, developed an ulcer on my toe which led to the diagnosis and got to hospital for the surgeon wanting to amputate. Refused, got a huge shock and changed lifestyle dramatically and an understanding GP helped me heal my toe. Got diabetes into remission very quickly and have been doing well on keto diet. However, currently being harassed by hospital regarding cardiovascular risk and high cholesterol, I've refused statins but now not sure how to proceed. How is everyone else coping with Keto and has it raised their cholesterol?

 

[SB2015]

I can’t help with the keto diet, so will just welcome you to the forum. There are quite a few in here with low carb diets, and I will flag @Drummer who is an enthusiast.

 

[rebrascora]

Hi and welcome from me too.
I am not as strict as Keto but I follow a low carb higher fat diet and whilst my Cholesterol is above the 4 that they like diabetics to be under, (it is currently 4.8) my ratios are good, I am keeping fit, I am in the normal BMI range and none of my health care team have pushed statins at me or commented on my diet, other than the consultant saying "keep doing what you are doing because it is obviously working". My Cholesterol was 5.2 at diagnosis and I eat a lot more fat now than I ever did then and a lot of it is saturated fat from meat, cheese, cream and eggs but I am also actively doing more exercise and my weight has dropped at least a stone and a half since diagnosis.
What is your cholesterol reading and have you looked at the breakdown of them ie HDL/LDL and triglycerides?
You also need to take into consideration family history as regards cardiovascular disease and assess your risk level.

Is there a particular reason why you are resistant to statins? I know they get a lot of bad press and are almost certainly overprescribed but like all medication there are times when it can be beneficail, so don't rule them out just because you have read negative press about them and be prepared to consider trying them.... or perhaps make more of an effort to reduce your risks through lifestyle changes.... ie get fitter and lose more weight.

I will confess that I am also wary of statins and have dreaded having to have the "conversation" because I know my levels are above the guidance for diabetics and they have actually commented that my levels are higher than they would like but my ratios are good ... and left it at that.

It is as important for us to keep an open mind about these things as it is for medical professionals to take into consideration individual risk factors and what the patient is doing to mitigate them, rather than just look at the total cholesterol and say it is too high and you need statins.

 

[Drummer]

I keep my blood glucose normal and eat 40 gm of carbs a day - being very sensitive to carbs I lowered it from 50 gm a day to try to push my Hba1c down, but it did not work. I seem to be stuck at 42. As I started off at 91 it is not too bad really.
On the low carb diet I lowered my cholesterol, but I found that Metformin and Atorvastatin made my life not worth living. I had the usual consequences of Metformin, but also aches in joints and muscles plus my memory was badly affected. Even now, almost 4 years from diagnosis I am still (thankfully) remembering things I had forgotten. I took the tablets for only 5 weeks, but became suicidal until I came to my senses and threw them away.

 

[Geministar1]

Hello, thank you for your welcome. I can relate to the Metforimin (took it for 3. months and got bg 37, it crept up recently to 40 but I was happy with that. I've had a difficult spell with a few life things happening one after another and lost the plot a little where I was quite depressed since I'd lowered bg so quickly I'd triggered retinopathy (diabetic macular oedema) and had to have eye injections in each eye which I didn't cope well with. You're right that family history is a factor and I do need to lose some weight (6 months or so of not caring) requires me to get active, lose weight and lower blood pressure. My cholesterol level is high at 7.6 and the ration 5.3 so I can see why they want me on statins. I'm keen to try every thing else first before taking medications as the last resort so I was just wondering if others had any problems from a higher fat diet. "Thank you for sharing your information 🙂

 

[Perfect10]

My cholesterol was 7 when I started low carb, higher fat diet and 4 weeks later was 6.8. My HDL had also risen as part of this so I was told I didn’t need statins due to having a good ratio? I would really like to get it checked again to see if it’s still going down though. I have also lost 1.5 stones since August eating this way too.

 

[aparsonsmoore]

Why the worry about Statins? Genuinely interested as I take them to no discernible side effects....

'Nocebo effect' cause of most statin side-effects, study suggests

Negative expectations may play part, with adverse effects reported when taking placebo

www.theguardian.com

 

[Eddy Edson]

From my experience & also from the expert studies, you can get LDL cholesterol (the bad one) down by reducing saturated fats and increasing fibre. You can certainly do that on a low cal high fat diet but it would typically involve not eating much meat, dairy, coconut-related stuff, some types of vegetable oils. Go for nuts, seeds, soy, avocado instead for fats, and fibre.

However, you'll typically get a much bigger LDL reduction from satins, which in the great majority of cases involve no side effects.

The other thing to note is that reducing LDL does indeed reduce CV risk, despite the Internet. The size of the reduction & yr actual risk level is something yr doc should discuss with you, rather than just tossing you a prescription.

Good luck!

 

[trophywench]

Well lucky you. However for the people who do get the side effects either the physical or mental ones - horrific. But all of us that have suffered from taking them we know that not everyone is affected the same. They are another thing that differs for each person differently - same as diabetes does!

But anyway a lower carb + normal fat diet can and often does, change your serum chol enough so you don't get your GP telling you you'll be lucky to survive the night if you don't take statins!

 

[Geministar1]

I did try statins once and unfortunately did have huge problems, I also have fibromyalgia and it became unbearable. I am using plant sterols, increasing exercise, eating low fat to lose some more weight so hopefully it will decrease it. I think there is always a place for medication but I also believe it is a last resort.

 

[Eddy Edson]

I did try statins once and unfortunately did have huge problems, I also have fibromyalgia and it became unbearable. I am using plant sterols, increasing exercise, eating low fat to lose some more weight so hopefully it will decrease it. I think there is always a place for medication but I also believe it is a last resort.

Understood - see how you go; I'm sure there'sno need to fix things absolutely overnight. If you do end up in a position where meds would be useful, there's other things besides statins, but again yr doc should be on top of that & hopefully be willing and able to explain things to you.

 

[Drummer]

If you do find that you start to get problems with statins I can only advise to stop taking them at once. In the week before Christmas 2016 I was suicidal. Stopping taking them does give some small relief in the next month - but the aches in my legs took 18 months to resolve, and my memory was just broken. I did the Christmas shopping twice, lost the car in the car park - had to relearn over 300 songs, and my cholesterol levels went down as I cut back on the carbs.

 

[Geministar1]

aparsonsmoore I have read the nocebo article, however I certainly had side effects that were horrendous. Like everything people have different outcomes, there are also articles that have researched and found side effects. For a long time drs suggested that Fibromyalgia, ME etc were a nocebo type effect.

 

[grovesy]

aparsonsmoore I have read the nocebo article, however I certainly had side effects that were horrendous. Like everything people have different outcomes, there are also articles that have researched and found side effects. For a long time drs suggested that Fibromyalgia, ME etc were a nocebo type effect.

Some of us have had side effects from Statins, and at the end of the day for me it is about quality of life.

 

[KARNAK]

I`m with @grovesy, TW and @Drummer on this one, but the only sure way to know
is try them but you already have. Nearly killed me and I tried 3 different types but I
know lots of people who take them with no adverse side effects, glad your toe has
been sorted HCP`s are only too eager to get the knife out ask one of our dear members
@Flower but she won`t give in.

I have read some of your posts and congratulate you on the knowledge you have gained
which may help other members on their D journey, just one more point to add.

Welcome to the forum.🙂

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Good luck with your chol efforts @Geministar1

Have you had a full lipid panel as well as as total chol and ratio? I have seem some suggestions that trigs can be a helpful proxy for the nastier ‘gritty’ vLDL particles, rather than the benign ‘fluffy’ LDL ones.

How many statins have you tried? it may be that if you decide to give statins another go, you might be able to try one or more alternatives which may suit you better.

 

[JMyrtle]

I must be one of the lucky ones!
Our very small country practise joined with a group practice from one of the larger local towns in April so we suddenly had new GPS with lots of smart "townie ideas"
With me it was female, over sixty five, diabetic = statins no argument.
However after a slight spike in b/g my readings have gone down quite a lot particularly the first one in the morning, down from mid 7.0s to about 6.7.
I had a three month review by 'phone last week to see if there were any side effects, no b/t needed as my cholesterol wasn't raised.
The only two effects I had noticed was a slightly runny nose and a reduction in b/g from between 6.5 to 8.00 to between 5.5 to 7.0 including two hours after eating.
Apparently there is now revised thinking that low b/ g is as dangerous as high and normal readings should be somewhere between 6.0 and 7.5 so my new just before eating reading of the low 5.0s is too low and I must get it above 6.0 although he is happy with my daily and monthly averages of 6.7.
Couldnt make it up could you.

 

[KARNAK]

I must be one of the lucky ones!
Our very small country practise joined with a group practice from one of the larger local towns in April so we suddenly had new GPS with lots of smart "townie ideas"
With me it was female, over sixty five, diabetic = statins no argument.
However after a slight spike in b/g my readings have gone down quite a lot particularly the first one in the morning, down from mid 7.0s to about 6.7.
I had a three month review by 'phone last week to see if there were any side effects, no b/t needed as my cholesterol wasn't raised.
The only two effects I had noticed was a slightly runny nose and a reduction in b/g from between 6.5 to 8.00 to between 5.5 to 7.0 including two hours after eating.
Apparently there is now revised thinking that low b/ g is as dangerous as high and normal readings should be somewhere between 6.0 and 7.5 so my new just before eating reading of the low 5.0s is too low and I must get it above 6.0 although he is happy with my daily and monthly averages of 6.7.
Couldnt make it up could you.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Apparently there is now revised thinking that low b/ g is as dangerous as high and normal readings should be somewhere between 6.0 and 7.5 so my new just before eating reading of the low 5.0s is too low and I must get it above 6.0 although he is happy with my daily and monthly averages of 6.7.

Were you given a source for that @JMyrtle?

It seems unusual advice, since 5 is well within the safe zone for BG and would offer a little more ‘wiggle room’ for post-meal rises. I’d want to know where it came from and to read the detail behind the suggestion (eg whether it was to protect folks on certain meds from hypoglycaemia and potential falls)

 

[grovesy]

Were you given a source for that @JMyrtle?

It seems unusual advice, since 5 is well within the safe zone for BG and would offer a little more ‘wiggle room’ for post-meal rises. I’d want to know where it came from and to read the detail behind the suggestion (eg whether it was to protect folks on certain meds from hypoglycaemia and potential falls)

I wonder if they are taking the interpretation from the study that some older Diabetes are at risk from what they classed as intensive Blood Sugar control.