Health warnings should be on everyday foods

Inka said:
What I found shocking was the UPF percentage of children’s diets in the U.K.
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How long ago was it now that Jamie Oliver was campaigning about school food, ‘turkey twizzlers’ and mechanically reclaimed ‘chicken’ nuggets. Bleurgh! :(
 
Amity Island said:
"We" used to get our food from the butchers, bakers, fruit and veg stall and fishmongers etc. That was until the big boys opened up their supermarkets and ended all the local businesses and all their locally sourced seasonal produce.
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True. On the other hands my parents loved it when we got a supermarket: they could buy just about everything in one shop (queuing once, parking once), rather than having to go to multiple shops. Saved lots of time.
 
Bruce Stephens said:
True. On the other hands my parents loved it when we got a supermarket: they could buy just about everything in one shop (queuing once, parking once), rather than having to go to multiple shops. Saved lots of time.
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Yes that's convenience. Convenience is the trend that is making humans sedentary and housebound. Don't cook just eat, don't go to work work from home, don't go to uni (eventually schools as well) study at home, don't go to hospital ring 111, don't visit doctor ring etc

There should be no need to "park once,". The idea of local shops (known as a sustainable community) is so you can get your food locally without needing to drive.

The big supermarkets drove the closure of many if not nearly all local independent shops. THEN, the big supermarkets (with all their ultra processed foods) moved back in to fill those places in our communities with their smaller locals. Mission accomplished.
 
I always wonder why a supermarket couldn’t be different shops under a different roof with a set of tills where you pay for everything. I know a certain supermarket has tried to replicate that idea, but I’m talking actual traditional shops - baker, greengrocer, fishmonger, butcher, ironmonger, etc etc - owned by individuals. Having them all under one roof somewhere with parking and only having to pay once (because the till identifies which shop the item is from and the money is allocated to them) would be convenient. The shops could be limited - ie no shop of Processed Rubbish!
 
Inka said:
I always wonder why a supermarket couldn’t be different shops under a different roof with a set of tills where you pay for everything. I know a certain supermarket has tried to replicate that idea, but I’m talking actual traditional shops - baker, greengrocer, fishmonger, butcher, ironmonger, etc etc - owned by individuals. Having them all under one roof somewhere with parking and only having to pay once (because the till identifies which shop the item is from and the money is allocated to them) would be convenient. The shops could be limited - ie no shop of Processed Rubbish!
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Many markets are like this, independents under one roof. Usually found in a town centre somewhere.
 
The food labels on ultra processed and junk food are akin to:

1. Telling drunk people to be drink aware.
2. Telling gamblers in a casino to gamble responsibly.

Get the idea?
 
Amity Island said:
Many markets are like this, independents under one roof. Usually found in a town centre somewhere.
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But not with one till - at least, not the ones near me. One till would replicate the convenience of supermarkets as you wouldn’t have to keep getting cash/cards out to pay.
 
Amity Island said:
Many markets are like this, independents under one roof. Usually found in a town centre somewhere.
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Leeds has wonderfull indoor market selling fresh foods & such, in fact you can buy just about anything in there. We always make a point of visiting Kirkgate market when travelling to city.
 
Inka said:
But not with one till - at least, not the ones near me. One till would replicate the convenience of supermarkets as you wouldn’t have to keep getting cash/cards out to pay.
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Ah I get you now. Yes sounds like a good idea. All that is required is a sellers id/ref number on the product and a price. There is/used to be a place like that called Botany Bay, Chorley.
 
Amity Island said:
Yes that's convenience. Convenience is the trend that is making humans sedentary and housebound.
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And yet I rather like being able to get water from a tap rather than collecting it from a well. Similarly, I'm pretty sure almost nobody will want to do without vacuum cleaners, washing machines, etc.

We live different lives now, and while some aspects of the past might seem attractive I'm not sure they're returning any time soon. On the other hand, it's quite feasible to create places large enough to support a range of small shops. Not the village I grew up in: that was just too small. But towns surrounding cities often manage. I live in Teddington which has lots of small (and branches of chains) shops, and I lived in Bilthoven near Utrecht, again with plenty of small shops (including, obviously, a couple of cycle repair shops).

You could call them 15 minute cities.
Inka said:
But not with one till - at least, not the ones near me. One till would replicate the convenience of supermarkets as you wouldn’t have to keep getting cash/cards out to pay.
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There was a plan to compete with supermarkets by doing that, I think the company was Farmers City Markets. It had good funding and was run by somebody who previous ran a supermarket, I think. There was one near me (which Yelp and Apple Maps still thinks exists). There's an obvious problem that it's very inefficient compared to a supermarket: lots more staff. It's easy to imagine having such a business which buys in from local farms and businesses and then sells (more efficiently, with fewer staff) the products, but pretty quickly you're just describing a supermarket.
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
I think one of the challenges is the Huge Hungry Machine that powers so much food production, marketing, formulation, and retail - whose main priority is on profit rather than ensuring good nutrition and/or the health of the consumers of the foods.

As examples - vegan food used to be plant based, largely made from scratch with simple wholefood ingredients, and a few nifty workarounds.

Then ‘veganism’ became popularised, packaged, shrink-wrapped, boxed and labelled. Now there are aisles and aisles of hugely processed frankenstein chemistry experiments on the shelves with a ‘vegan’ label. But I suspect many of them are far from healthy, or good for the environment for that matter.

Plus, look what happened after the Sugar Tax. A piece of regulation intended to be helpful, but previously sugar-sweetened beverages were reformulated to have just enough sugar to stay under the threshold, but then a bucket load of sweeteners.

Did I hear the other day that the UK has one of the highest levels of consumption of industrial ultra-processed hyper-palatable foods in Europe?
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Totally agree. Not vegetarian or vegan, but love vegetarian dishes and make lots from scratch, especially when my vegetarian daughter visits. I never buy any ‘fake processed food). Vegetables and pulses are so versatile, why buy fake burgers and sausages made of god knows what
 
Bruce Stephens said:
And yet I rather like being able to get water from a tap rather than collecting it from a well. Similarly, I'm pretty sure almost nobody will want to do without vacuum cleaners, washing machines, etc.
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To use the analogy of parent and child. What one "likes" to do and what is "best" for us is not always necessarily the same thing. For example, if we allow our kids to do what they "like", it won't necessarily lead to a good outcome. Or in other words, convenience may seem great, but it will leave us all sat in seats all day, without having to do anything (but sleep and eat), without learning day to day skills and without human interaction. Some will no doubt "like" that, but I think we are currently heading in the wrong direction from a human perspective. There is a tipping point, a no going back. It seems even work is too much for some these days, because we have forgotten what it is like to have to earn and work for things, because everything is put on a plate.
 
We have been consuming overly processed high salt, high starch, high sugar products for a few decades now so it becomes normal. The long shelf life suits supermarkets and gives people what they demand 24 hour access to meals with minimal preparation. Eating mostly fresh seasonal food with occasional treats has gone out of fashion. Any government intervention will be largely ignored by most people unfortunately.
 
Amity Island said:
Convenience is the trend that is making humans sedentary and housebound.
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Convenience may contribute to lifestyle but cost of living (including the need for some to work every hour they can) is the biggest trend making people sedentary.
Unless you think people should work in fields harvesting by hand.

Exercise used to be something the “poor” did. Now only the rich have time for exercise.
 
helli said:
Convenience may contribute to lifestyle but cost of living (including the need for some to work every hour they can) is the biggest trend making people sedentary.
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I completely agree with that. For all the promises that computers would reduce our workload, we are busier than ever before. Where we once might of had to open a few letters each day we now have dozens of emails every day. Where we once were expected to write a couple of letters a day, we are expected to respond to many emails every day. Where we once had typist to write our letters for us, we now have to write our own. This is in addition to our usual workload and tasks.

We are so much more busier than before, with everything being instant. This has definitely impacted on our free time, family time, time to prepare wholesome meals. All compounded by the fact that both partners now have to work to be able to pay the bills. Not long ago only one needed to work whilst the other looked after things in the home.

Technology has generated more work, not less.
 
Amity Island said:
I completely agree with that. For all the promises that computers would reduce our workload, we are busier than ever before. Where we once might of had to open a few letters each day we now have dozens of emails every day. Where we once were expected to write a couple of letters a day, we are expected to respond to many emails every day. Where we once had typist to write our letters for us, we now have to write our own. This is in addition to our usual workload and tasks.

We are so much more busier than before, with everything being instant. This has definitely impacted on our free time, family time, time to prepare wholesome meals. All compounded by the fact that both partners now have to work to be able to pay the bills. Not long ago only one needed to work whilst the other looked after things in the home.

Technology has generated more work, not less.
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Too true. Most people do not have the luxury of setting their own work pace. We may do less physically demanding work or drudgery, but the demands of meeting someone else's deadlines leads to long hours and increased stress. Not surprised people want convenience. Long term it can't be good for people's health.
 
silver minion said:
Too true. Most people do not have the luxury of setting their own work pace. We may do less physically demanding work or drudgery, but the demands of meeting someone else's deadlines leads to long hours and increased stress. Not surprised people want convenience. Long term it can't be good for people's health.
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This could certainly be a factor in the proposed government polices for Autumn this year. 4 days week and being able to sue employers for overworking employees.

We might have time to cook a decent fresh meal at least once a week on the new day off?

Amity Island

Thread '4 day working week planned for Autumn'

Currently, employees have the legal right to request flexible working, but there is no obligation on companies to agree.

That balance of power is to be shifted, with companies instead legally obliged to offer flexible working from day one except where it is “not reasonably feasible”.

It means workers will have much greater powers to get bosses to agree if they want to complete their full week’s hours between Monday and Thursday, taking Friday off.

Also mention of reduced days / reduced pay and term time only working...
 
helli said:
Convenience may contribute to lifestyle but cost of living (including the need for some to work every hour they can) is the biggest trend making people sedentary.
Unless you think people should work in fields harvesting by hand.

Exercise used to be something the “poor” did. Now only the rich have time for exercise.
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And because of that, there are "food deserts", where fresh ingredients just aren't so easily available locally. I don't think I could buy what I need from local small shops (I think the nearest greengrocer is miles away, for example). There's a butcher nearby (who also sells fish, I think) but I think that's about it. Lots of convenience stores, and a few bakers.

The whole thing is complex: you can't just change one thing, and individuals have very little control over most of it. And I'm not sure what we should be aiming for anyway.
 
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