Glucomen Day CGM Review

[Lily123]

Well it lost the plot last night. I must have lay on it (feeling ill since yesterday so rubbish bgs and lots of tossing and turning trying to get any sleep) and so there was a gap in the data, but the numbers that came back in the morning made no sense. I put my phone on silent before bed so that I wasn’t woken by alarms. Photo in this one is what the graph looked like in the morning. Had been up for the loo several times in the night but did a fingerprick and was in 11s

That’s not good that just because you slept on your arm that the Glucomen lost signal and that number must have been scary until you double checked with a finger prick

 

[Lucyr]

So my fingerpricks were 11.2 and 11.5 and it came in line after i entered the two finger pricks as calibrations. At least you can calibrate it when it loses the plot but seemed a bit weird after being accurate till now. I’ll check it again later on against a fingerprick. I’m off to get some apidra, paracetamol and strepsils in the meantime.

 

[helli]

I have to say that Xdrip sounds extremely helpful and fair enough about turning alarms iff at night bu warning you 75 minutes before a hypo???? How???? Wouldn’t your numbers have changed so much in that time frame that warning you that much in advance makes you overly anxious??????

Like most things in xDrip, the predictive alert is configurable. You could set it for 75 minutes or you could set it for 5 minutes
As I have a pump, I set it for 30 minutes and suspend my basal for 15 minutes to avoid the hypo.

 

[Lily123]

So my fingerpricks were 11.2 and 11.5 and it came in line after i entered the two finger pricks as calibrations. At least you can calibrate it when it loses the plot but seemed a bit weird after being accurate till now. I’ll check it again later on against a fingerprick. I’m off to get some apidra, paracetamol and strepsils in the meantime.

It’s good that once it was calibrated that it is now more accurate

 

[Lucyr]

That’s not good that just because you slept on your arm that the Glucomen lost signal and that number must have been scary until you double checked with a finger prick

It’s on my stomach which I don’t normally sleep on so a bit odd yes. I thought the number might be real at first as I’d been awake all night and needed the loo several times as kept drinking for the bad throat. I always confirm with a fingerprick before a big correction though!

 

[Lily123]

Like most things in xDrip, the predictive alert is configurable. You could set it for 75 minutes or you could set it for 5 minutes
As I have a pump, I set it for 30 minutes and suspend my basal for 15 minutes to avoid the hypo.

Oh you can change the timing for the predictive alarm.I didn’t know that so thanks for the info

 

[Docb]

Can i bring you back to my earlier observation? In conventional terms you are not calibrating the Glucomen. To do that you would be adjusting it to an absolute and reproducible standard. What you are doing is putting in a correction factor so that the readings are reconciled to another, uncalibrated, method of measuring blood glucose.

Sorry for being a bit of a technical pedant and it is not a criticism of the system at all, far from it, but it is important when it comes to interpreting the results.

 

[Lucyr]

Can i bring you back to my earlier observation? In conventional terms you are not calibrating the Glucomen. To do that you would be adjusting it to an absolute and reproducible standard. What you are doing is putting in a correction factor so that the readings are reconciled to another, uncalibrated, method of measuring blood glucose.

Sorry for being a bit of a technical pedant and it is not a criticism of the system at all, far from it, but it is important when it comes to interpreting the results.

I’m not entirely sure what this means but “calibrate” is the word it uses on the screen in the app

 

[Docb]

Apologies if i have confused you @Lucyr, sometimes the technical half of my brain takes over when I see numerical data!

First point is that I think that the term calibration used in their literature and app is not one that I would use. A calibration is something that you would do to a system to start with and then maybe do again periodically to check that nothing has drifted. A need to do frequent "calibrations" suggests a system that is not particularly stable. I would describe it more as an adjustment to compensate for drift.

Second point is that the adjustment is not to a fixed standard. It is to a finger prick check which in itself varies quite a lot and in which any individual reading is subject to significant statistical error. It is not the way you do a calibration.

The way I look at it is that Glucomen realise that their system can drift, sometimes quite alarmingly, and have come up with a method of trying to compensate for it. They suggest checking any unexpected readings against a finger prick and then and using those results to produce what is technically called a "fiddle factor" to feed into the algorithm to compensate for the drift. It accepts that in principle the finger prick is a more reliable method of estimating blood glucose.

As far as I can see, Libra also recognise that their system can drift but their approach is to replace, seemingly without question, any sensors that don't work as expected.

Both systems have the same limitations, but the approach of the manufacturers to cope with it are different.

As I say, these thoughts are not a criticism of the systems, the fact that manufacturers are coming up with ways of remotely monitoring blood glucose is amazing and even at the current levels of development the information provided is invaluable. I am sure that there is much more to come.

 

[helli]

I think of it as calibration.
The sensor itself is not changed but the algorithm used to convert from interstitial fluid readings to blood glucose readings will take the difference into consideration. In my mind, as an engineer, this is calibrating the algorithm.
I know xDrip does more than just apply an offset as the variation is not linear. I cannot comment on the approach for Glucomen.
I find that Libre can "drift" so chose to calibrate at least once a day when my levels are stable.
Given finger pricks are not 100% accurate, I know some people only calibrate when the app reports more than 0.5 mmol/l different from finger pricks l.
I calibrate even if they are spot on and xDrip has a calibration graph and takes previous calibration into consideration. I appreciate this is my choice.
I prefer to calibrate than to report to Abbott as I have a strong dislike of any waste . Again, I appreciate this is my choice (and not an option if you are using the official app).

 

[Lucyr]

Thanks for the extra explanations, I have only used the official libre app so can’t compare against xdrip but it sounds like that is an unofficial way to get the extra things I like from the Glucomen.

Todays update, no real issues to report, still feeling rubbish and bgs on high side but PCR negative and sensor as reliable as previous reports.

Another experiment I would like to do is to test how quickly the sensor responds when my bg goes from being flat to changing, to understand the lag time. I’m not sure how to carry this out, I guess maybe with a correction or a meal and regular finger pricks /scans? Any thoughts?

 

[Lucyr]

That's an interesting experiment, which you can do if you want, or you could accept the usual time lag of about 10 to 15 minutes.

If you wanted to perform your own experiment:

• Start with flat glucose level
• Eat an amount of glucose, dex tabs, or jelly babies, (20g should be enough)
• Finger prick and check your sensor every 5 minutes until your glucose level stops rising and becomes flat again.
• Plot the points on a graph and draw a curve for each device.

Personally I would skip the test and accept the 10 to 15 minutes lag.

I know it’s 10-15 minutes lag on libre, but some of my early results gave me the feeling that the Glucomen could be slightly longer lag. I didn’t have any proof of that though, it was just a feeling

 

[helli]

Libre 2 algorithm predicts the 15 minute delay so appears not to be too behind.
This is great most of the time unless your blood sugar trend changes direction in the last 15 minutes such as when recovering from a hypo which is why it appears to take longer for hypo recovery if you are only relying on Libre.

 

[Lucyr]

Having used this a bit more, I think my conclusions are:

Pros

• No scanning is amazing, libre is a pain for needing you phone just so
• Accuracy was good for me
• Very sticky, no reactions to the adhesive, an extra patch provided to hold it down too
• Reads every minute
• Much more variety of alarm than libre gives with official app
• Worn on stomach I like as less visible and less likely to get knocked
• So much less plastic waste than libre is great. Reusable applicator!
• Customer service seemed really friendly and keen to help me get the most from it
• At the time it was potentially slightly cheaper than libre but only if you purchased whilst on offer and paid for the full 12 month subscription at £90ish a month. If not on offer or purchasing a sensor at a time then it’s more expensive.

Cons

• Have to remember to charge the transmitters for 4 hours ish before changing sensor
• Needing calibration just makes it that bit more of a hassle, thinking through when will be the right time to calibrate is just one extra diabetes thing to think about
• This is probably an individual one. Both my sensors ended early with no explanation of why just “sensor error”. I know some people get this a lot with libre but I don’t.
• Alarms use your phone sounds, not different sounds so you can distinguish them
• The clip that holds transmitter in seems really easy to nudge open. I knocked mine out just showering and not noticing how close my hands went. I was able to put it back in after drying off, the filament is covered so that didn’t come out.
• More expensive than libre if you don’t want to use it full time, or if it’s not on offer when you buy
• It’s got a more bulky profile, not sure if this is really a con though as it’s worn on stomach, the tape covers a much bigger area though so I felt more conscious of it. Probably just it being new feeling to me though.

Overall verdict: No switch for me. It’s accurate enough to use, customer support seemed helpful, less plastic waste is great, and has some definite benefits over libre, but they just weren’t big enough to convince me to pay more than libre or to commit to using it full time to get the price down to a more affordable price point.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Having used this a bit more, I think my conclusions are:

Pros

• No scanning is amazing, libre is a pain for needing you phone just so
• Accuracy was good for me
• Very sticky, no reactions to the adhesive, an extra patch provided to hold it down too
• Reads every minute
• Much more variety of alarm than libre gives with official app
• Worn on stomach I like as less visible and less likely to get knocked
• So much less plastic waste than libre is great. Reusable applicator!
• Customer service seemed really friendly and keen to help me get the most from it
• At the time it was potentially slightly cheaper than libre but only if you purchased whilst on offer and paid for the full 12 month subscription at £90ish a month. If not on offer or purchasing a sensor at a time then it’s more expensive.

Cons

• Have to remember to charge the transmitters for 4 hours ish before changing sensor
• Needing calibration just makes it that bit more of a hassle, thinking through when will be the right time to calibrate is just one extra diabetes thing to think about
• This is probably an individual one. Both my sensors ended early with no explanation of why just “sensor error”. I know some people get this a lot with libre but I don’t.
• Alarms use your phone sounds, not different sounds so you can distinguish them
• The clip that holds transmitter in seems really easy to nudge open. I knocked mine out just showering and not noticing how close my hands went. I was able to put it back in after drying off, the filament is covered so that didn’t come out.
• More expensive than libre if you don’t want to use it full time, or if it’s not on offer when you buy
• It’s got a more bulky profile, not sure if this is really a con though as it’s worn on stomach, the tape covers a much bigger area though so I felt more conscious of it. Probably just it being new feeling to me though.

Overall verdict: No switch for me. It’s accurate enough to use, customer support seemed helpful, less plastic waste is great, and has some definite benefits over libre, but they just weren’t big enough to convince me to pay more than libre or to commit to using it full time to get the price down to a more affordable price point.

Interesting observations @Lucyr !

Thanks so much for sharing 🙂

 

[Lucyr]

@Lucyr, well done. A solid assessment of Glucomen CGM.

If you are going back to Libre 2 you can have similar CGM functions if you add on something like Xdrip and OOP2. Which can be run in parallel to Libreview.

If cost is a limiting factor, Libre 1 can be restarted when used with unofficial apps like Xdrip. Libre 1 needs a miaomiao, or blucon, for full CGM. As you are self funding, the options are yours.

I might need to look into this, someone mentioned you can get the predictive low/high alarms with the alternative methods of libre, and i really liked those more varied alarm options on the glucomen. First though, i'll try the other new cgm thats cheaper than libre.

For the cost issue, i like that libre is committment free, and i think i have decided that i need that as a must have in any system i use. Then i can just spend on sensors when i can both afford it and am in the right mindset to benefit from using it.

 

[Spathiphyllum]

Yesterday I went to my second session in the local equivalent of DAFNE, and they told us about the Glucomen Day CGM; it's now available on the NHS in my area and, having done a little googling, a number of other areas too.

On the accuracy issue: there has been a small study, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8869704/pdf/biosensors-12-00106.pdf . The study was funded by Glucomen's manufacturers, but carried out by medical academics. (And one of the authors of the study is on the advisory board for Libre's manufacturer, but not Glucomen's manufacturer! None of the other authors has any industry links.) Accuracy was assessed by the gold-standard laboratory instrument, not just the blood glucose meters we use. The gist seems to be that the Glucomen CGM is about as accurate as Libre 2 or Dexcom G6.

There are four things about the Glucomen I quite like the sound of, as compared to Libre 2:

- The applicator and the transmitter are reusable, for up to 5 years, so there's about 90% less waste than with the Libre 2. Not only less plastic waste but less battery waste; every Libre 2 sensor contains a battery, so you're just throwing one away every fortnight.

- More options for where to wear it. At the time Lucyr was testing it, it was only licensed for wearing on the abdomen; but, as of October 2022, it's licensed to wear on the abdomen or upper arm or lower side. For me, wearing on the abdomen would be great-- I never sleep on my front but often sleep on one side or the other.

- I note there have been some quibbles in this thread about the strict technical meaning of 'calibration'! But, using 'calibrate' in the loose sense: I like the idea of being able to 'calibrate' the sensor with BGM readings. I've often wished I could 'tell' the Libre when my BG reading is very different from the Libre reading; well, with the Glucomen, you can. (In fact it asks you to do that at least once every 48 hours.)

- Not having to scan.

The downsides seem to be:

- The sensor's not quite as flat as the Libre sensor.

- The sensor needs to be within 10 feet (3 metres) of your phone to transmit data, whereas for Libre 2 it's 20 feet (6 metres). But I'm already used to not wandering away from my phone too far for too long. And with the Glucomen you can not only turn the 'signal loss' alarm on or off but also customise the timing; with the Libre, if the 'signal loss' alarm is on, it's 20 mins, non-adjustable.

- Like Libre 2, Glucomen can't be integrated with a pump.

I'm mulling it over ... Has anybody else tried it?

 

[Owenscrimshaw]

Yesterday I went to my second session in the local equivalent of DAFNE, and they told us about the Glucomen Day CGM; it's now available on the NHS in my area and, having done a little googling, a number of other areas too.

On the accuracy issue: there has been a small study, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8869704/pdf/biosensors-12-00106.pdf . The study was funded by Glucomen's manufacturers, but carried out by medical academics. (And one of the authors of the study is on the advisory board for Libre's manufacturer, but not Glucomen's manufacturer! None of the other authors has any industry links.) Accuracy was assessed by the gold-standard laboratory instrument, not just the blood glucose meters we use. The gist seems to be that the Glucomen CGM is about as accurate as Libre 2 or Dexcom G6.

There are four things about the Glucomen I quite like the sound of, as compared to Libre 2:

- The applicator and the transmitter are reusable, for up to 5 years, so there's about 90% less waste than with the Libre 2. Not only less plastic waste but less battery waste; every Libre 2 sensor contains a battery, so you're just throwing one away every fortnight.

- More options for where to wear it. At the time Lucyr was testing it, it was only licensed for wearing on the abdomen; but, as of October 2022, it's licensed to wear on the abdomen or upper arm or lower side. For me, wearing on the abdomen would be great-- I never sleep on my front but often sleep on one side or the other.

- I note there have been some quibbles in this thread about the strict technical meaning of 'calibration'! But, using 'calibrate' in the loose sense: I like the idea of being able to 'calibrate' the sensor with BGM readings. I've often wished I could 'tell' the Libre when my BG reading is very different from the Libre reading; well, with the Glucomen, you can. (In fact it asks you to do that at least once every 48 hours.)

- Not having to scan.

The downsides seem to be:

- The sensor's not quite as flat as the Libre sensor.

- The sensor needs to be within 10 feet (3 metres) of your phone to transmit data, whereas for Libre 2 it's 20 feet (6 metres). But I'm already used to not wandering away from my phone too far for too long. And with the Glucomen you can not only turn the 'signal loss' alarm on or off but also customise the timing; with the Libre, if the 'signal loss' alarm is on, it's 20 mins, non-adjustable.

- Like Libre 2, Glucomen can't be integrated with a pump.

I'm mulling it over ... Has anybody else tried it?

I use the Glucomen Cgm system. I find that the first day can be variable, and the data towards the end of 14 day period is also variable. It is easy to apply but with the subscription plan I pay £60 per month. I use to monitor what spikes me and allows me to have some idea of where I am. Fortunately I do not need insulin at the minute. Interested to read Lucy’s detailed analysis

 

[m1dnc]

I tried it a few months ago thinking I could save a few bob over my trusted Dexcom G6, but it didn't work well with me. I went back to the G6. I have now switched to the G7, which also works well with me and is a bit cheaper than the G6. If anything I have found the G7 slightly more "accurate" (let's not go there with that term) than the G6 for me.

Other advantages of the G7 (over the G6): no separate transmitter and a bit smaller, 12-hour over-run time to insert new sensor, and biggest plus - short warm-up time. The only downside so far is that the much smaller surface area means that there is a propensity for the sensor to become unstuck. Dexcom provide an overpatch to help with this, but that seems like an ex post facto solution to a design fault. Why not just make the sticky patch larger? But I suppose there is the consequence that the applicator would have to be larger etc.