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Glucagon or Ambulance? Which is better?

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This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.

LorraineP

Active Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
Before you say, don’t have a severe hypo in the first place it’s not as straight forward as that. I’m an experienced diabetic of 40 years but I occasionally get unexpected hypos at unexpected times. In spite of my vigilance, sometimes I have to fight very hard, sometimes for 2 - 3 hours, to bring my blood sugar up to safe levels.

These hypos are usually linked to episodes of vomiting which can come on very quickly with little warning. However as soon as I feel sick I check my BG (which is always low when I vomit), I suspend the pump and take Lucozade (double the amount these days!).

I give it full blast as early as possible because I know the Lucozade may not stay down for long especially if I ate not too long beforehand. For belts and braces I also take Glucogel and wait (whilst rushing to and from the bathroom).

A couple of nights ago, after a 3 month break from vomiting, it happened again and the accompanying hypo lasted for 240 minutes! My BG varied between 2.2 and 2.6 for most of the 4 hour hypo. Even Glucogel made little difference, although when I came round after blacking out there was still some residue on my gums so that’s probably why I came round.

So in a situation like this I should take glucagon, yes? But no, neither my GP nor my diabetic doctor will prescribe glucagon BECAUSE I LIVE ALONE!! Someone else must administer it.

So if someone else must administer it, I should ring for an ambulance, yes? But here’s the problem. When my BG is so low and I’m projectile vomiting my ability to make decisions and articulate myself is seriously impaired.

On Tuesday night I worried that I’d be told off for phoning for an ambulance because they’d think I should know to just take glucose. I worried that I’d have to explain the problems I have in getting the glucose into my system. I felt too confused, exhausted and distressed to cope with that.

I decided I would phone for an ambulance if my BG fell below 2 but I kept falling in and out of consciousness and didn’t manage to do so. I thought if I waited just another 15 minutes my BG would start to come up again but instead it kept on falling. Luckily I had left the back door unlocked so if an ambulance had turned up they could get to me.

My diabetic clinic’s attitude is that if I’m having such severe hypos then I must be doing something wrong. However, having gone privately, this week I’ve had a diagnosis of 1) atrophied pancreas 2) pancreatitis and 3) gastroparesis. I also had small intestine bacterial overgrowth diagnosed 3 months ago and Pancreatic Enzyme Insufficiency diagnosed 6 months ago. So, pretty much the perfect storm for erratic blood sugar and gastro problems. Thankfully the scans showed no sign of pancreatic cancer.

So now that I have a diagnosis I’m going to try again and ask for glucagon. I don’t know what I’ll do if they refuse because I can’t continue to live like this. Even if I don’t use it, the glucagon will make me feel safer just knowing it’s there.

Does anyone else here who lives alone get glucagon on prescription?
 
Lorraine...I'm so sorry.. I'm not any practical help here...my first instinct is to screammmmmmmmmmm call for an ambulance...however...as a type 2 diabetic using Meformin...I have no experience of hypos...insulin or glucagon...it sounds frightening in the extreme...no doubt someone with the necessary knowledge & experience will be along shortly to give you support and the appropriate advice...it sounds very much as if you are caught between a rock and a hard place...why not ring the DUK helpline...I'm sure they could give you the right advice...or at least point you in the right direction.
 
I've lived alone and i have never had a problem getting a prescription for glucagon! It's utter rubbish and i would seriously question the logic of who ever made the decision to not let you have it. It is a life saving treatment and yes, while it would be difficult to administer yourself when having a very bad hypo it is still possible to do so. i would talk to your consultant or dsn. your living arrangements have no relevance as to whether you can have an emergency glucagon or not 🙂
 
Hi Lorraine, I used to have glucagon and I live alone. I don't have it now for the simple reason I have Addison's disease so it can not be used. From what you are describing if it hasn't been done yet then please insist your GP tests your cortisol levels as a matter of urgency.
 
I've lived alone and i have never had a problem getting a prescription for glucagon! It's utter rubbish and i would seriously question the logic of who ever made the decision to not let you have it. It is a life saving treatment and yes, while it would be difficult to administer yourself when having a very bad hypo it is still possible to do so. i would talk to your consultant or dsn. your living arrangements have no relevance as to whether you can have an emergency glucagon or not 🙂

Thank you for telling me that. Before I take this up again this week it helps to know that one's own logic isn't flawed. I was doubting myself.

In reply to Bubbsie, I did phone Diabetes UK re this issue, actually in a distressed state, and although they were very nice, they referred me to my local branch which is here in N Ireland. They told me that the reason glucagon is refused to people who live alone is because you need to have a clear mind to administer it. I'm still expected to manage my diabetes and administer insulin and other medication when sick, when in a hypo and when hyper. What makes glucagon different? That's what I don't understand. Perhaps its just the policy here in NI.
 
Thanks Pumper Sue, I don't know if I've been tested for Addison's and it hadn't crossed my radar until now. But having checked the NHS website I do have many of the symptoms, although they could be explained by my other conditions. Thanks for the suggestion. I have an appointment with my GP in early June and I will bring it up.

I see that low cortisol levels can cause low BG. Can the lack of cortisol make hypos unexpected and make it difficult to come out of a hypo?
 
I see that low cortisol levels can cause low BG. Can the lack of cortisol make hypos unexpected and make it difficult to come out of a hypo?
Most definitely, before I was diagnosed I consumed almost 500 carbs in one day just to stay conscious and I had no insulin at all.

Please do bring this up as a matter of urgency because Addison's is life threatening if untreated.
 
Mmmm......thanks Sue, you've got me thinking. Your experience is very similar to mine as I've also had to go without insulin some days. Especially in the heat my BG can sit around 5 or 6 for most of the day whilst eating normally. I used to joke that I was cured of Type 1 diabetes. My record for treating a hypo was 180 grams of carb. I'd been putting this down to gastroparesis but I will definitely ring the diabetic clinic and my GP on Monday to ask if they have tested my cortisol levels.

Regardless of the outcome, thank you for alerting me to this
 
I know I'm not here really, but I was just browsing while correcting a hypo before a day out.

All I can say is thank goodness Pumper Sue saw your post. (Take a bow, Sue). Addison's is one of the very few conditions that can give you those persistent hypos. It can do that in non-diabetics, so if you are carrying a dose of long acting insulin, you've got a double whammy. Vomiting for no reason is also a symptom, and I would lay money on you feeling tired all the time, with odd aches and pains. Lost any weight?

You not only have to insist on tests for this, ( and for heavens sake don't take no for an answer) if you have exocrine pancreatic insufficiency as well, due to pancreatitis, you need to join the happy band of Creonistas. If you don't take Creon with food and snacks, you will not absorb nutrients properly and develop vitamin deficiencies.

Your GP is unlikely to have seen Addisons in practice. Only 8,500 or so folk have it in the country, quite a few T1Ds in that number, it's a pretty exclusive club.

As a footnote, don't bother about the glucagon, chances are it wouldn't work very well.
 
Hello Mike and Khskel, yes I do have PEI and I'm on 10000 Creon tablets. Maybe the strength should be increased.

Mike, you're absolutely right about the exhaustion, I've had nearly 3 stone weight loss in the past year and I have aches and pains that I blamed on statins so I gave them up. The aches and pains didn't go away. On further reading of the subject I see that temperature regulation can also be a symptom. During my 4 hour hypo I was so cold and I shivered so violently I was worried that would bring my BG down even further. I put the heating on and wore a thick woollen jumper on the hottest day of the year. I thought that was odd because the sweat from a hypo can make me cold but a hypo doesn't usually make me feel like I'm in the Arctic!

In spite of so many matching symptoms I'm still hoping I don't have Addisons, but I would be extremely stupid not to check it out quickly.
 
In spite of so many matching symptoms I'm still hoping I don't have Addisons, but I would be extremely stupid not to check it out quickly.
Addison's so easy to treat so don't worry about that side of things.
Please do not leave things for to long before you see someone as Addison's is life threatening when left untreated. Do you have an A&E near you? If so perhaps go there and tell them what's happening ask them if you have Addison's as the medics would not think about it due to it being so rare.
 
Addison's so easy to treat so don't worry about that side of things.
Please do not leave things for to long before you see someone as Addison's is life threatening when left untreated. Do you have an A&E near you? If so perhaps go there and tell them what's happening ask them if you have Addison's as the medics would not think about it due to it being so rare.

Thanks Sue. I'm actually in the middle of writing an e-mail to my diabetic consultant at the moment as he's quite good at responding to requests for help. I'm also going to put a call request in to my GP tomorrow morning so with any luck one of them will answer!

I'm hoping I don't have Addisons, not because the condition frightens me but because it would be yet another condition to have to deal with in my old age. And if I'm honest I worry about any steroid treatments in case it makes me put on weight again!!! 🙂
 
Another question for you Sue. I presume my diabetic consultant is the right person to deal with this as he describes himself as an endocrinologist at the Endocrinology Centre. I presume its an endocrinologist who treats your Addisons condition?
 
Another question for you Sue. I presume my diabetic consultant is the right person to deal with this as he describes himself as an endocrinologist at the Endocrinology Centre. I presume its an endocrinologist who treats your Addisons condition?
Yes it comes under endo, but in all honesty just like diabetes it's self managing, a GP can diagnose it if pointed in the right direction.
If you have a full blown crisis you can be dead within 20 mins unless treated so please go get your self checked out.
My initial diagnoses came from my veterinary surgeon, we were gelding colts at the time and he suggested I get checked out for Addison's due to my almost constant hypo state with no insulin, the rest is history so they say 🙂
 
Thanks Sue. I'm actually in the middle of writing an e-mail to my diabetic consultant at the moment as he's quite good at responding to requests for help. I'm also going to put a call request in to my GP tomorrow morning so with any luck one of them will answer!

I'm hoping I don't have Addisons, not because the condition frightens me but because it would be yet another condition to have to deal with in my old age. And if I'm honest I worry about any steroid treatments in case it makes me put on weight again!!! 🙂
Sorry didn't see this one.

You wont put on weight due to the steroids because all you are doing is replacing what your body is not producing now. Obviously if you have lost a lot of weight then you will gain back what you lost but nope to the extra weight because you are on steroids.
The cortisol test needs to be done first thing in the morning because this is when cortisol is highest in your body so any deficiencies will show up.

It's a bank holiday in the UK so no one answers here 🙂
 
Thanks for explaining about the steroids Sue. Typical of me to worry about weight when there are more important things at stake🙂

And no one will answer here tomorrow due to the bank holiday. I'd forgotten about that.
 
Another unannounced visit. Lorraine, if you get another one of those unrelenting hypos with vomiting, ring 999. Don't wait for it to get better. That's an order.🙂
 
Another unannounced visit. Lorraine, if you get another one of those unrelenting hypos with vomiting, ring 999. Don't wait for it to get better. That's an order.🙂

I will definitely obey your order, Sir!!. 🙂

I can't believe that I've been telling my medical team about my symptoms for over a year and they have either ignored what I've been saying or told me I must be doing something wrong to be getting such severe hypos.

Yet in just two days since posting here I've had clear advice and clear direction. Even if it turns out that I don't have this condition it's clear to me that it should have been checked out much earlier. It's been a difficult year trying to get someone to listen to me about my symptoms and I would check in to this forum from time to time hoping to find posts from people with similar problems but I didn't see any matches. So thank you everyone on this thread!!
 
Aye, Lorraine, but I've told you how many folk have this condition. The chances of you finding someone with the same symptoms are microscopic. I'd buy a Euromillions ticket on Tuesday if I were you, you could be on a roll😎
 
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