Freezing bread affecting carbs

Docb said:
Are you suggesting that this whole thing is based on a single document without any confirmation from other work? If so, why are we discussing the topic?
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Again...

Resistant Starch: Promise for Improving Human Health - PMC

Ongoing research to develop digestion-resistant starch for human health promotion integrates the disciplines of starch chemistry, agronomy, analytical chemistry, food science, nutrition, pathology, and microbiology. The objectives of this research ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Docb said:
Finally, if freezing bread did reduce the effect of bread on glucose production, then the T! community would know all about it. I am constantly amazed at the ability of T1's to calculate insulin needs by carb calculation and as far as I know, none of them take pre freezing into account. That tells me it is not important - the point made by @Lucyr - which I would not question.
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It's definitely true that T1D can give us a lot of information about how insulin and carbs actually work in our body's, which includes those of us with T2D. But even amongst lifelong T1D, testing, calculating and administering insulin can be a it of a crap-shoot, not least because of errors/inaccuracies of testing equipment. And that's before the long list of confounding variables. As such T1D will often over or undershoot the amount of needed insulin and are left having to course-correct.

There are so many reasons why it is practically impossible to test the effect of resistant starch, outside of a laboratory. This is why science and the proper scientific method needs to be defended against the many who are making very good livings on the back of science denial.

In the general spirit of increasing understanding and moving towards the truth, both people and things need to be questioned.
 
Martin.A said:
Can I just point out that DUK has a section promoting this and if the general opinion of members is that it's spurious, as seems to be the case, then maybe DUK should consider removing it.

Mike? @everydayupsanddowns
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The concept of cooking (or freezing), cooling, and reheating causing changes in some of the starches making them harder to access has been around for a few years, and there are a few peer-reviewed papers which investigate and explain the phenomenon.

But I think it’s certainly going to be another YDMV thing - this is diabetes after all!

My gut feeling is that I get slightly fewer problems these days with bread than I used to. Mostly my estimates and dose timings work, where I used to get occasional big spikes despite “doing everything right”. Coincidentally, during lockdown we started keeping spare bread in the freezer (in case we became confined to barracks), and I’ve continued to do that - so now all bread I eat has been frozen and defrosted.

So for me there is an apparent association between frozen/defrosted bread and reduced variability following bread-including meals (almost 2/3 of my diet).

It’s only a modest change, and may be an illusion. But it has encourages me to keep freezing and defrosting!
 
beating_my_betes said:
Would be interested to continue this conversation, but only on the proviso that you're comfortable with me not having to caveat and couch my questions, walk on eggshells etc. for fear of offending you or you getting the feeling I'm calling you dishonest. This is nothing personal. I just want us all to see if we can get a better understanding of this.

No obligation, either way.
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Please note from Lucyr's signature that they're autistic and take this into account when responding.
 
Martin.A said:
Please note from Lucyr's signature that they're autistic and take this into account when responding.
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Everything I wrote in that post is my general wish for all communications in these contexts. But I appreciated Lucyr's intention to provide clarity by way of (soft) forewarning, and wanted to respond in kind. I thought my comment was also clear and respectful, woth the same motivation that people wouldn't feel I was attacking them personally in my bid to find some common understanding. Evidently, and unfortunately, it didn't come over as I intended.
 
beating_my_betes said:
Could you perhaps explain to me where you see the rigour in this case?

Thanks!
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I doubt that I can explain it to you. However, for me as a humble person without a PhD, the steps that Drummer outlined looked as rigorous as a Professor of Rigour winning a national 'Rigorous Research of the Year' competition.
 
CliffH said:
I doubt that I can explain it to you. However, for me as a humble person without a PhD, the steps that Drummer outlined looked as rigorous as a Professor of Rigour winning a national 'Rigorous Research of the Year' competition.
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Perhaps you could give it a shot. And then I'll try to explain why I disagree 😉
 
beating_my_betes said:
Perhaps you could give it a shot. And then I'll try to explain why I disagree 😉
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Unfortunately, as Phil Spector said regarding Paul McCartney's anger at him overdubbing strings onto 'The Long and Winding Road', I think you've got me "mixed up with someone who gives a ****". As Lucyr says above, "It's only a sandwich".
 
CliffH said:
Unfortunately, as Phil Spector said regarding Paul McCartney's anger at him overdubbing strings onto 'The Long and Winding Road', I think you've got me "mixed up with someone who gives a ****". As Lucyr says above, "It's only a sandwich".
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The fact that it's a sandwich at all is one of many 'points against', for rigour. If you actually gave a ****!! you might've worked that out. But, alas...
 
beating_my_betes said:
It's the cantankerousness, right? 😉
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More the similarities to some of Blackadder’s infamous similes

“He’s mad. He’s madder than Mad Jack McMad, winner of last years Mr Madman competition”

“as cunning as a fox, who has just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University?”

etc
 
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Well the OP hasn’t been seen since Thursday so it might be that all the overcomplicating it with scientific talk has scared them off as their question was a simple one, they weren’t asking anyone to go out and do a research study etc.
 
Enough of this frivolity !!

Thank you for your response @saz2996.

My PhD, awarded some 54 years ago established that the idea of using carbon fibres in high temperature applications, particularly in aircraft engines was a non-starter. Could witter on about thermodynamic instability, stress analysis in anisotropic systems or analysis of electron diffraction patterns in single layer turbostratic graphite structures but that would confuse most.

I have not tried to unpick your basic biology except to understand that you are saying one should take care because, like most things, digestion of foodstuffs gets complicated when you dig into it. If so then I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think that my point is that for most, the top line provides enough to work with successfully. When it comes to foodstuffs and controlling blood glucose by diet, it is generally sufficient to focus on the carbohydrate content assigned to it. The effects of things like freezing might be real but are secondary and of no great consequence to anybody other than academics looking for research funding or somebody trying to sell something.

Lucyr said:
Well the OP hasn’t been seen since Thursday so it might be that all the overcomplicating it with scientific talk has scared them off as their question was a simple one, they weren’t asking anyone to go out and do a research study etc.
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Spot on observation @Lucyr and I loved your down to earth....It's only a sandwich. I think might be using that in the future!

@CliffH - Curtis and Elton were very good at using humour to deflate pomposity. I think that your appreciation of their talents might be the inspiration of a few of your posts.🙂
 
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