FreeStyle Libre 3 - Clinical trial has started

[Jon-Manchester]

I copied this from the Libre facebook forum, but it looks like the Libre3 has started its clinical trial in the US

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov

 

[mikeyB]

Well, the study, if you noticed is funded entirely by Abbott Diabetes Care. Expect few, if any negative reports. It's certainly not a big enough trial to convince insurance companies in the US, or funding bodies around the world. It doesn't have to show it is better than fingerpricking, it has to show it is better than the basic model we have.

Anyway, it would be nice to get hold of Libre 2 rather than worrying what the future may hold. The future will look similar to the Medtronic 670 pump with all the bells and whistles. The external automatic pancreas.

 

[Jon-Manchester]

Well, the study, if you noticed is funded entirely by Abbott Diabetes Care. Expect few, if any negative reports. It's certainly not a big enough trial to convince insurance companies in the US, or funding bodies around the world. It doesn't have to show it is better than fingerpricking, it has to show it is better than the basic model we have.
Anyway, it would be nice to get hold of Libre 2 rather than worrying what the future may hold. The future will look similar to the Medtronic 670 pump with all the bells and whistles. The external automatic pancreas.

I am self funding so the funding body for me, is me
I do take your point though that it would be nice if they could launch the Libre 2, though personally it doesnt sound like much of an update

I dont know how clinical studies are normally funded, but personally I would fully expect that the manufacturer would provide all the funding as they are the ones that will make the money from it? But perhaps that isnt how it works?
This is obviously only the first phase with 100 people for 6 months. So i expect after that there will be larger studies to follow all going well

 

[mikeyB]

You obviously aren't very impressed by the Libre 2 having optional alarm systems for high and low BGs, but I am. I don't see how Libre 3 can trump that, unless it has a speaker system so that blind folk can use it.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

You obviously aren't very impressed by the Libre 2 having optional alarm systems for high and low BGs, but I am. I don't see how Libre 3 can trump that, unless it has a speaker system so that blind folk can use it.

Alarms are obviously significant, and I also can't think what significant further features they could add, but the study doesn't seem to say what that might be so we're just speculating. Maybe some minor tweak (slightly smaller sensor, longer lifespan, or different applicator, or something that's not that exciting).

(I note that the phone apps have an audio setting, so when you scan it can say "five point seven rising" and things so in principle a blind person could get some basic use out of the system.)

 

[mikeyB]

Indeed, but the reader doesn't. I'm not sure how a blind person selects the Libre App from the selection on a smartphone., let alone line up the construction of the applicator. Maybe that could be simplified for that reason.

 

[Amity Island]

You obviously aren't very impressed by the Libre 2 having optional alarm systems for high and low BGs, but I am. I don't see how Libre 3 can trump that, unless it has a speaker system so that blind folk can use it.

And so drivers can use it!

 

[Jon-Manchester]

You obviously aren't very impressed by the Libre 2 having optional alarm systems for high and low BGs, but I am. I don't see how Libre 3 can trump that, unless it has a speaker system so that blind folk can use it.

I love alarms but Libre 2 seems like a halfway house to something that is useful. Now of course if you cant feel that you are low then of course having an alarm telling you that you are low is useful. From my perspective that notification is kind of too late, as I want to prevent it not just being told I am low.
What i personally find extremely useful is having the alarms that helps me manage my blood sugars so I have lots of notifications and alarms set up a with different announcemets depending on what they are (dropping fast any value, 5 dropping fast, 4.5 and sinking, below 3.9 and so on). Some of them are just a buzz on my apple watch others are actual alarms.
There are plenty of 3rd party addons to Libre1 that achieve that (Bubble, MiaoMiao and bluecon)and you also get full alarm functionality, intergration with smartwatches, I just saw one post where someone had build an app integration to Apple carplay so he could see on the car dashboard what his bloodsugar was, now that is cool and really useful when you are driving.
So my dissappointment is really just around that 3rd party homebuilt solution can achieve far more just using the Libre1 than what the Libre2 is offering.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

I'm not sure how a blind person selects the Libre App from the selection on a smartphone., let alone line up the construction of the applicator.

I've no idea either, and I've no idea whether smartphones are particularly used by blind users. They have some features for accessibility (including visual impairment) but I've always assumed it's more for partially sighted users than entirely blind ones.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

What i personally find extremely useful is having the alarms that helps me manage my blood sugars so I have lots of notifications and alarms set up a with different announcemets depending on what they are (dropping fast any value, 5 dropping fast, 4.5 and sinking, below 3.9 and so on). Some of them are just a buzz on my apple watch others are actual alarms.

Yes, those are good suggestions I hadn't considered. Those sorts of things don't seem impossible for something basically like a Libre 2 sensor. (As far as I understand it Libre 2 just adds an alarm for either low or high (but just triggers the alarm, so you have to scan to check what the alarm is for). I could believe it would be feasible to add a small number of different (bluetooth) signals for a few different conditions while staying within whatever energy budget the sensors have.)

Doubtless we'll find out eventually.

 

[mikeyB]

I love alarms but Libre 2 seems like a halfway house to something that is useful. Now of course if you cant feel that you are low then of course having an alarm telling you that you are low is useful. From my perspective that notification is kind of too late, as I want to prevent it not just being told I am low.
What i personally find extremely useful is having the alarms that helps me manage my blood sugars so I have lots of notifications and alarms set up a with different announcemets depending on what they are (dropping fast any value, 5 dropping fast, 4.5 and sinking, below 3.9 and so on). Some of them are just a buzz on my apple watch others are actual alarms.
There are plenty of 3rd party addons to Libre1 that achieve that (Bubble, MiaoMiao and bluecon)and you also get full alarm functionality, intergration with smartwatches, I just saw one post where someone had build an app integration to Apple carplay so he could see on the car dashboard what his bloodsugar was, now that is cool and really useful when you are driving.
So my dissappointment is really just around that 3rd party homebuilt solution can achieve far more just using the Libre1 than what the Libre2 is offering.

It's whatever floats your boat, I suppose. My concern with the Libre is them getting the algorithms right, not whether I can get the info flashing up on my TV or announcing the info on my DAB radio when I'm showering. It's never occurred to me that it is such hard work getting the reader out of your pocket to find out what your BG is doing. So the alarms on Libre 2 are all I would want.

 

[Jon-Manchester]

It's whatever floats your boat, I suppose. My concern with the Libre is them getting the algorithms right, not whether I can get the info flashing up on my TV or announcing the info on my DAB radio when I'm showering. It's never occurred to me that it is such hard work getting the reader out of your pocket to find out what your BG is doing. So the alarms on Libre 2 are all I would want.

I do like my technology, so part of it is about that. I do recognise that i am a proper geek
From my perspective, I can (mostly) prevent going low or high in the first place if i catch it at the right time. For me it has nothing to do about 'not scaning', to me it is about getting the best possible control i can have and I enjoy using technology to help me with that. I know it is never going to be as good as a 'healthy' person but I will do my best to get close to it as i can. I am easily scanning over 20 times a day but I find that the alarms are incredibly valuable to me to when I get one of these fast rising and sinking events, or when i get distracted at work so I just need that little reminder that a buzz on my watch gives me to tell me that its 4.2 and slowly sinking so i need to act. A quick snack and i stop it from going any lower.
Or the opposite, that i didnt get my bolus right so it is quickly rising.
I also have to disagree, sometimes it isnt that convenient or easy to scan, in particular with excerise I find that it really helps that i can see my bloodsugar on my watch rather than having to stop and scan or try to do it while I am still cycling and running the risk of a crash.
Knowing that I can rely on being warned, also helps me relax and not worry too much and enjoy the ride or run.

Of course you can argue that you dont need any of that technology, as I should just scan more often and yes that may be true. But personally, i find diabetes management hard enough as it is so if I can get use technology to help me take away some of that work and stress then I will use it. But if you dont like technology then I can see that alarms etc isnt that interesting and may even have the opposite effect

 

[trophywench]

What I happened to notice more than any of what 3 happens to have or not have, was that kiddies aged 4 and above were included. I thought up to now, we were being told that yes OK you could choose for a child to use it but Abbott weren't going to recommend it for children cos it hadn't been clinically tested for them?

 

[Bruce Stephens]

was that kiddies aged 4 and above were included. I thought up to now, we were being told that yes OK you could choose for a child to use it but Abbott weren't going to recommend it for children cos it hadn't been clinically tested for them?

Libre is approved for 4 and older now. (There's a footnote on https://www.freestylelibre.co.uk/libre/ explaining 4-12 year olds will need someone to help interpret the results.)

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I wonder if the Libre 3 is more connected to the pump integration rumours which abound (including hybrid closed loop with Omnipod)