First Aid Diabetes Advice

[EllsBells]

Or lack of. Currently doing a St John 3-day first aid course, so diabetes and hypoglycaemia came up. The info given out was ok but not fantastic and the trainer brushed against diabetic ketoacidosis but then advised anyone with very high blood sugars not to send to hospital which I found odd. Also no differentiation between T1 and T2 let alone other variants.
Luckily we had a T1 and a T2 in the room. The T1 did not know about the 15 and 15 rule.

 

[Leadinglights]

When I did first aid training many years ago now there were some things which really the training did not equip one to deal with. As a first aider I would not have the equipment to test somebody's blood glucose and as different people might need hypo treatment that was different to somebody else.
Again you are not allowed to give medication, not even a paracetamol. I had a colleague who frequently had hypos so knew what worked for them and kept a stock with (not in) the first aid box . In any doubt call an ambulance.
We had a student who kept collapsing really suddenly on a regular basis, it was really difficult as they refused to go to hospital but we had to call an ambulance even though we knew that. Never got to the bottom of what was causing it.

 

[Inka]

TBF, you don’t need to test their blood sugar. If someone with diabetes is showing signs of a hypo, you give them something sweet. We don’t need special hypo treatments - anything will do - but will normally be carrying glucose tablets or sweets. If we’re unconscious is when an ambulance is needed as you won’t be able to give us anything by mouth.

Something sweet can be full sugar Coke, chewy sweets, sugar, etc etc

There was some St Johns Ambulance guidance a few years ago that wasn’t clear, but I’d hope they’ve improved it now. Hypoglycaemia can come on suddenly and needs immediate glucose/sugar. No blood test necessary. In the unlikely event, the person had hyperglycaemia, it’s far better to give them the glucose than not. That’s what I was taught - and what I would want you to do if I was ever ill like that. Hypos are swift and potentially very dangerous, hypers come on slowly and you’d be unlikely to ever come across someone having one who needed First Aid.

 

[DaveB]

TBF, you don’t need to test their blood sugar. If someone with diabetes is showing signs of a hypo, you give them something sweet. We don’t need special hypo treatments - anything will do - but will normally be carrying glucose tablets or sweets. If we’re unconscious is when an ambulance is needed as you won’t be able to give us anything by mouth.

Something sweet can be full sugar Coke, chewy sweets, sugar, etc etc

There was some St Johns Ambulance guidance a few years ago that wasn’t clear, but I’d hope they’ve improved it now. Hypoglycaemia can come on suddenly and needs immediate glucose/sugar. No blood test necessary. In the unlikely event, the person had hyperglycaemia, it’s far better to give them the glucose than not. That’s what I was taught - and what I would want you to do if I was ever ill like that. Hypos are swift and potentially very dangerous, hypers come on slowly and you’d be unlikely to ever come across someone having one who needed First Aid.

Agreed. That's what I was taught by St John's. If someone is Hypo then the glucose will be vital. If they are Hyper then the small extra amount of glucose given won't matter.

 

[DaveB]

Or lack of. Currently doing a St John 3-day first aid course, so diabetes and hypoglycaemia came up. The info given out was ok but not fantastic and the trainer brushed against diabetic ketoacidosis but then advised anyone with very high blood sugars not to send to hospital which I found odd. Also no differentiation between T1 and T2 let alone other variants.
Luckily we had a T1 and a T2 in the room. The T1 did not know about the 15 and 15 rule.

Hi. Can you explain the '15 and 15' rule which I've never heard of.

 

[Kaylz]

Hi. Can you explain the '15 and 15' rule which I've never heard of.

It'll be the take 15g carbs of fast acting glucose and retest in 15 minutes to see if your back above 4 xx

 

[Inka]

Agreed. That's what I was taught by St John's. If someone is Hypo then the glucose will be vital. If they are Hyper then the small extra amount of glucose given won't matter.

Exactly 🙂

 

[Piglet]

will let you all know if St John advice has got better in recent years as I am due to re do the full first aid at Work course due to lapse in my certificate to to long term sick leave and pandemic getting in the way.

I must say though that my last recollection is similar but the instructor did listen when I chipped in during the diabetes section in the training. they also did not tell people to look for either a id bracelet/ SOS talisman so I always mention these too. I now wear both and SOS bracelet and a DUK T! wristband.

 

[EllsBells]

My course did mention the ID bracelet/medical jewellery.

 

[Drummer]

One thing about looking after a collapsed diabetic everyone should know is don't let some clever bystander inject insulin because that's what they saw done on the telly.
Over the years I have read about three deaths caused by insulin overdose, and several fairly long stays in hospital.

 

[EllsBells]

To be fair, that came up too as a thing to avoid. I think I was more worried that they glossed over hyperglycemia and DKA wasn't talked about at all.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

I think I was more worried that they glossed over hyperglycemia and DKA wasn't talked about at all.

Should be mentioned, but there's not much you can do in a first aid context is there? Beyond "call for an ambulance" which you're presumably doing anyway?