Fat -- Yes or No

[zuludog]

This question has been prompted by recent Posts where Rebrascora has outlined her diet (think Rebrascora is a lady), and by watching some YouTube videos, especially 'Beat Diabetes!' by Dennis Pollock

For years I followed the accepted advice and cut down my fat consumption considerably, and was careful about the fat I did eat -

I stopped eating processed meat like sausages & burgers & ready meals
I do eat cheese sometimes, but eke it out into small pieces & slivers
I use semi - skimmed milk, and olive oil spread, but sparingly
I don't use cream, or any hard fats
I only buy 'proper' cuts of meat, and trim off the fat
I use olive oil for shallow frying & salad dressings
I eat fish, beans/pulses and canned sardines in brine or olive oil

There are probably a few points I've forgotten, but you get the idea

But now I see that fat might not be the Bogeyman we were led to believe, and the real problem with food, such as heart attacks, is caused by carbohydrates.
I've also heard the the bad press & image for fat was mostly the result of pressure from the American food industry especially for sugar & cereals.

I've always thought that I was fairly knowledgeable about food & diet, but now I'm confused and not as confident

Can anyone tell me the current, approved attitude to fat, please? Or any other comments?

 

[trophywench]

Well - far as I am concerned there never should have been any 'Low carb/High fat' suggestions on an ongoing basis. I have always thought it should be 'LowER carb/ NORMAL fat'.

If you take the 3 basic categories of food in its entirety - ie Protein, Fat and Carbohydrate - well, shock horror! - the human body can convert all 3 of em into glucose to fuel its cells. It's very easy for the body to convert the carb so it does that first. If anyone eats too much of any of those 3 - they have a detrimental effect on the workings of that marvellous thing we're all born with, in some way.

The basic conclusion is, I'm afraid - that 99% of us simply eat too much Full Stop.

I'm probably too fond of telling the internet that since I can ever remember (so let's say when I was 4 in 1954) I have never, ever, eaten shedloads of carbs or 'c**p'. The latter did not even exist on general sale until I was practically an adult anyway. Growing up - yes there were people who'd rather visit the chip shop than buy meat and cook a meat and veg dinner - and my mother was always horrified when in the Butcher's shop with ladies asking for eg a pork chop for 'him' and some sausages for 'me and the kids'.

No - in our house, all 4 of us had a smaller pork chop - daresay dad may have got the largest, then mom, and def both had another slice of the joint on Sundays. Or all of us had sausage. Chips happened once a week.

So - still buy beef marbled with fine lines of fat - but not huge great visible lumps of it anywhere. Buy skin-on pork, with c. 1/4in fat before the meat. Skin-on poultry. Use 'blue top' full fat milk; spread butter on your bread, eat cheese. Eat less spuds than the other veg on your plate. Eat more carrots than parsnips! Eat smaller portions of fruit - share an apple or a pear or nectarine, ONE slice of melon. About 5ish sultana grapes or 3ish seeded ones - not half a bunch of either.

Rant over LOL

 

[ianf0ster]

I used to eat both high carb and medium Fat from my birth in 1951 until the mid to late 1980s. I was always slim and below the mid range for normal BMI. It was only after I was persuaded to eat more whole grains, more fruit and to cut down on natural fat on cuts of meat that I started to slowly put on weight.
Since I was still slim and still in the normal BMI range it didn't seem to matter. As the years rolled by I continued to gain about 1lb per year and thought is was just a natural part of ageing.
My Blood glucose became raised (into the pre-diabetic range) and my Triglycerides became raised while my HDL Cholesterol dropped. My GP persuaded me to go even lower fa, higher whole grain and eat more like 7 to 10 portions of fruit and veg per day (mainly fruit and sweeter more carby veg like carrots and parsmips).
In mid summer 2016 I suffered my first (mild) cardio symptoms. By the end of the year I was in hospital for a 3x CAB even though I hadn't actually had a heart attack. All 3 of my coronary arteries were almost completely blocked (each over 90%).

Yet again I was advised to #double down' on my low fat (high carb) diet and by weight started to increase faster. By the time in April 2019 when I became fully Type 2 diabetic, I was also 2lbs into the overweight BMI range.

My GP and diabetes nurse gave me the same advice as before, but by now I'd had enough!. Low Fat obviously wasn't working for me. I discovered Dr David Unwin had reverse approx 40% of his Type 2 Diabetic patients disease through a Low Carb 'way of eating'. I also researched Dr Jason Fung's fasting approach and Dr Michael Mosley's 800 calorie Blood Sugar diet. I decided I was going to reverse my diabetes through the food I ate. I asked my GP which one he would advise out of those 3 approaches. He suggested the Michael Mosely one, so since he'd been wrong so many times in the past (and I didn't 'need' to lose much weight) I chose Dr Unwin's approach.

My T2 is in remission (normal HbA1C for over 1yr), my weight is back to what it was in my early 30's, my HDL is now over 2 and my Triglycerides are now just over 1 so my Lipid ratios are much improved even though my LDL is higher.

I have been serious about 'eating to my Blood Glucose meter', I have had to cut carbs down to between 20gms to 40gms per day in order to achieve that. I eat much more animal protein and never cut off any fat (not even off pork belly). I don't feel that I add any fat though I eat cheese and full fat greek style yogurt. The only fruit I now eat is a few berries.

If this new way of eating is going to kill me I will die slim, energetic and happy!.

 

[Inka]

But now I see that fat might not be the Bogeyman we were led to believe, and the real problem with food, such as heart attacks, is caused by carbohydrates.
I've also heard the the bad press & image for fat was mostly the result of pressure from the American food industry especially for sugar & cereals.

@zuludog That depends on whose narrative you follow. Others say that fat is most definitely an issue, particularly certain fats. Some say the problem is an excess of processed food and too little exercise. Like most things, I think the truth is a mix of all of those.

Most people with diabetes die from heart disease. As the only diets shown to improve heart disease are low fat, then my opinion is that while fat shouldn’t be totally avoided, it’s wise to limit the fat we eat. Nothing I’ve read says that a high fat diet is good for your heart. In fact, it says the opposite. Here’s one study that classifies “high fat” as more than 35%:

“In conclusion, the results of the present study demonstrate that habitual consumption of a diet high in fat (≥35% of total calories) is associated with impaired endothelium-dependent vasodilation due, in part, to diminished NO bioavailability. Endothelial vasodilator dysfunction may contribute to the increased risk of atherosclerotic vascular disease associated with a chronic diet predominately high in fat.”

This is a short 4 minute video that has some good basics about low fat v. high fat diet. It also has some pictures showing the blood vessels. It’s an interesting watch. It starts by talking about high fat diets and cholesterol:

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/low-carb-diets-and-coronary-blood-flow/

Michael Greger has also written a book called How Not To Die. This has chapters about the major killers and a huge list of studies at the back. Personally I watch my fat intake and try to keep it lowish. To my mind, anything I can do to reduce those scary heart disease statistics is worth it. Keeping fat low has also meant I’ve kept my insulin sensitivity good after all these years.

 

[AndBreathe]

Personally, my way of eating is not to seek out bucket loads of fat, but not to shy away from the deliciousness that is crackling, or the crispy rendered fat on a lamb chop.

For anyone living with T2 and concerned for their cardiac health, they should consider taking part in research, akin to the one I recently participated in, run out of an NHS Centre of Excellence. That was one heck of a cardiac MOT.

(I did just fine, thanks for asking.)

 

[Lucyr]

I think it varies depending what you’re reading, some say fat is not a problem and carbs are the problem. Others say a very low fat diet but eating more carbohydrates can help reverse insulin resistance and improve bgs. Some people then find one easier or harder to stick to. For me, plenty carbs with low fat works better for my digestion and bgs, others prefer the opposite.

 

[Drummer]

I find that low carb is the only way to keep my blood glucose under control - and the change to eating natural fats brought about a reduction in cholesterol down to just above average.

 

[rebrascora]

I think, how much fat you eat, depends to a certain extent on how low carb you eat. Those who follow a moderately low carb diet and/or don't do a lot of exercise will not need much fat to maintain their weight or lose it if they need to. If you eat very low carb, then you will need more fat, especially if you are very active. I adjust my fat intake with my exercise/activity level to manage my weight but my carb intake is kept low to help manage my diabetes and my disordered eating.
For me eating more fat keeps me feeling sated and that is important for long term sustainability of the diet. I do feel so much healthier eating this way though and feel it is right for me and my blood test results are all showing that, with cholesterol results reducing and ratios good and my Consultant is aware and has not made any negative comment and in fact, he is happy for me to "continue doing what I am doing".
I am not advocating for people to eat as much fat as I do, but just for them not to be afraid of fat or blindly follow the low fat NHS advice, particularly if they are following a low carb way of eating for their diabetes, as longer term, without more fat, it isn't sustainable. If you are not getting calories from carbs then you need to get them from fat or protein. Fat has less impact on BG levels than protein, so I would rather increase my fat intake and leave my protein at "normal" levels.

 

[AndBreathe]

I think the how much fat question can be a bit like the piece of string conundrum.

For me, I describe my way of eating as going easy on the carbs, with plenty of good protein and balancing fats (mainly naturally evident; for example on meats.

I rarely seek out fat, unless I'm trying to nudge my weight up a bit, or I'm looking for "emergency rations", perhaps on a day out, in which case, it'd likely be cheese.

Again, for me, if I eat too much fat, my body lets me know it's not happy, which limits the radius I can travel from the facilities, but that's just me. Not nice. That tends to keep me in check.

 

[nonethewiser]

Don't avoid it, like me butter blue top milk greek yog cheese, mainly blue cheese & occasional fry up & takeaway, cut fat of meat unless it crisps as fat would make me sick, do this on diet including mainly healthy carbs & cholesterol is historically on low side.

Downside is to much fat makes me insulin resistant & need more insulin, to much protein same issue.

Notice when some folk say they eat high fat its anything but, especially when only eating 1 or 2 meals day.