Fat, 41, Fed up & Hungry

[Nell83]

As the OP is taking insulin it may not be the food as such but the insulin regime not being in balance with the food.
We are all suggesting low carb options but I just spotted the bit about the insulin so the criteria about expectation of blood glucose levels may need to taken into account.

Sorry I'm new to all this. What does that mean? I'm currently on 36units of Novomix30 morning and evening. increasing 2 units every 3 days.

 

[Leadinglights]

What does that mean?

The insulin you are taking is a mixture of a slow acting basal insulin and a fast acting insulin which is more tricky.
If your blood glucose levels are remaining high then that insulin may not be the best as it is not able to cope with the amount of carbohydrate in your meals.
It would be worth discussing with your diabetic nurse of GP about having 2 separate insulins (called basal /bolus regime) so you can tailor your meal insulin (bolus) for the amount of carbs in your meal and the basal which works to keep blood glucose level in the absence of food.
This would be allow more flexibility of what you can eat.

 

[Nell83]

The insulin you are taking is a mixture of a slow acting basal insulin and a fast acting insulin which is more tricky.
If your blood glucose levels are remaining high then that insulin may not be the best as it is not able to cope with the amount of carbohydrate in your meals.
It would be worth discussing with your diabetic nurse of GP about having 2 separate insulins (called basal /bolus regime) so you can tailor your meal insulin (bolus) for the amount of carbs in your meal and the basal which works to keep blood glucose level in the absence of food.
This would be allow more flexibility of what you can eat.

Thank you - I spoke to her last week and said I didn't feel like it was helping as much as it should or could as I'm avoiding carbs as much as possible but as soon as I go anywhere near them I see a significant spike. I was told flatly that until I was using a full pen 250units or max dosing every day they wouldn't consider changing the medication.

She also commented that it would seem my body is fairly resistant to the insulin.

 

[Leadinglights]

Thank you - I spoke to her last week and said I didn't feel like it was helping as much as it should or could as I'm avoiding carbs as much as possible but as soon as I go anywhere near them I see a significant spike. I was told flatly that until I was using a full pen 250units or max dosing every day they wouldn't consider changing the medication.

She also commented that it would seem my body is fairly resistant to the insulin.

You could try phoning the DUK helpline to get their view, have all your info to hand, blood glucose readings, sort of meals etc. The number is at the top of the page.

 

[Inka]

You could try phoning the DUK helpline to get their view, have all your info to hand, blood glucose readings, sort of meals etc. The number is at the top of the page.

I doubt they’d give insulin dosing advice @Leadinglights Have you used mixed insulin?

@Nell83 If you can reduce the insulin resistance that will help. As for the insulin, you need to work out what amount of carbs works for each meal (breakfast, lunch, etc) and stick to that. That’s the method with mixed insulin. I used it for a while after diagnosis and it demands a fairly rigid routine.

IMO, getting support to lose weight and improve your insulin resistance is crucial. Has the GP offered any support?

 

[Nell83]

I doubt they’d give insulin dosing advice @Leadinglights Have you used mixed insulin?

@Nell83 If you can reduce the insulin resistance that will help. As for the insulin, you need to work out what amount of carbs works for each meal (breakfast, lunch, etc) and stick to that. That’s the method with mixed insulin. I used it for a while after diagnosis and it demands a fairly rigid routine.

IMO, getting support to lose weight and improve your insulin resistance is crucial. Has the GP offered any support?

The only support I'm ever offered by the Dr's is to see the eating disorder people or a dietitian and every time I do they sign me back as fixed as soon as possible.

 

[Hobster]

Hi Nell. I've been in a similar position with regards to a binge eating disorder. It took me years to realise that I had to get out of the 'diet' mentality. It was dieting in whatever shape or form that was severely affecting my mental health and any chance of ever losing weight. In fact one of the things they teach you when going through a disordered eating programme is that the desire to lose weight is a negative. I used to be terrified of eating good fats, because fat is fat right? We know that's not true, but that is what a long term dieting regime does to the mindset.

I had cancer a few years ago and have been told ever since by the medical profession 'you're at high risk of xyz' due to your BMI. The fear these words brought made me eat more, rather than less. Food is a coping mechanism for me, has been since I was 8 years old and when I was put on my first 'diet'.

Until you address the mental health around eating (and why you do) and work through this, no diet in the world is going to work I'm afraid. I hope that doesn't sound too harsh, but I know from experience that the longer we tell ourselves that one day we will do this diet, or try the next thing or the newest fad, the longer we remain static or put on more weight. It's not easy, but it is do-able. Unfortunately the NHS don't have great programmes available and I am funding my recovery privately, which hurts me that it is not available to all. If you're serious about changing your mindset, then I suggest (if you are able) to look into disordered eating health coaches (just be careful of who you choose and do your research).

My recovery is slow but I am seeing the benefits and feel healthier for it. It's a long road, but I believe worth stepping onto that road. I'm sending you a huge amount of empathy and understanding. Be kind and compassionate to yourself with your thoughts 😉🙂

 

[Martyn P]

Hi Everyone,
I'm Nell, type 2 diabetic diagnosed in 2018 after migraines. I have tried every tablet that the nurse had available and the two different weekly injections - unfortunately all had such bad side effects I couldn't stay on them.
At the beginning of March I started Insulin after my sugars being out of control on just slow release metformin.
I'm up to 34 units of Novo30 morning and evening. I have invested in the Libre 2 sensor system as my nurse cannot prescribe it as I don't meet the criteria. My sugars are between 8-9 in the morning before breakfast - around the same before lunch and again before dinner. But they seem to spike up to 15+ after dinner. I'm trying to take daily walks - but I work a desk job so I'm sat a lot of the time.

I'm trying really hard to stick to high protein and low carb, I haven't had anything I enjoy since I started the insulin - No chocolate, cookies, cakes, pastries. I'm hungry all the time - I'm not eating pasta, noodles, rice, potato or white bread - all the things I used to use to fill me up as I'm a very picky eater. I'm not a fan of vegetables, never have been, but I'm really trying. I eat a lot of different types of fruit but understand I have to moderate these.

I'm obese - 5ft 2in and weighing in at 20stone - I've been big all my life - I have been diagnosed with several eating disorders and have been through the counselling systems and been handed back to the GP as "fixed" every time the nominated amount of sessions is complete. Binge Eating was the main diagnosis - the restrict and binge cycle is hard to break and having to cut out all the things I like feels a lot like this and is starting to make me feel crazy!

I was hoping to dedicate myself to healthy eating and exercise for the next 1-2 years get my weight down and head to remission and coming off the insulin. But as I slowly increase the dose by 2 units every 3 days and still have these spikes I'm starting to wonder if that is realistic. Am I ever going to be able to get to the point that I can come off insulin if my body is this dependant and it would seem resistant to it's effects.

I guess my question is - do I accept that I am now insulin dependant and make sure that I take the right dosage to live a lifestyle I can stick to or keep making myself miserable.......

Does anyone have any advice?

The Libre 2 Sensor is not always accurate. Yor High Reading may not be as High and Low Reading on the Sensors are not always Accurate and you should get a blood testing machine. I have had Type 1 Diabetes so I know this is fact. I have had result of Sensor reading LO for Sensor LOW but when done Blood test is 3-4, so not so Low. I have then eaten something to bring sugar level up then 30 mins later Sensor still reading LO for LOW but done Blood Test and the reading is 5-4 so this proves that the Sensors are not always accurate. I called the Abbot Company about this and they said the Sensor takes readings every 10 to 15 mins so that why wrong and Blood test should be taken. The Sensors should not be relied on as not always accurate, and blood test should be taken when readings to HIGH OR TO LOW for safety.
Also if you on Human Insulin and you getting any side affects you need to see Specialist and ask to be changed to Animal type Insulin. I know this as having had Type 1 54 years and was a guinea pig for the Human Insulin and now get Nocturnal Seizures caused by the Human Insulin. This now under control with medication and am back on the Animal Type Insulin.
Hope this info is useful as is accurate. Remember I have had Diabetes 54 years and when I first got you did not all these things they have now. So I tell you this from experience and accurate details. Thanks you.

 

[Dragonheart]

At the moment a typical day is Greek yoghurt with berries or Porridge for Breakfast - usually after 2 hours my blood sugars have gone up 2-3 with this meal. For the first few weeks I was able to eat shredded wheat and stay within a couple of points then suddenly that started to jump to 7-8 points so I've stopped eating that.

Lunch I'm trying to have a wholemeal sandwich of tuna and salad or cheese and ham or a big bowl of salad topped with chicken or cheese. Again two hours after this they go up between 2 and 4 points. But if I eat this around 12/1 I'm starving again by 3/4 so end up having an apple or banana or some melon.

Dinners I've been trying to do better with but I'm really struggling I've done spaghetti bolognese - bad idea my sugars went from 9 before dinner to 16 two hours later. Grilled chicken wraps went up by 5. I did bacon, sausage, egg and baked beans one night and it only went up by 3 - but in my head this is a bad meal unhealthy in so many ways even though I grilled the meat and scrambled the eggs my old diet head says this is too much fat. I did cheese burgers with no buns just a big bowl of salad and some sweet potatoes - again this was a bad move and I ended up over 16 that night starting at around 10.
I'm still increasing the insulin as per instructions from the nurse - if I'm over 8 in the mornings every 3 days add two more units. I'm also injecting slightly earlier before eating instead of the instructed 10-15 minutes I'm allowing more time around 20-25 minutes - this seems to be helping a bit. I'm also trying to walk after meals even for a few minutes and that seems to be helping too.

So there’s little difference between the yoghurt breakfast and porridge responses? Unusual
Same with sandwich v salad?

For the salad option are you eating enough overall, adding enough chicken and cheese? You need the protein and natural fats to fill you up. Maybe some olive oil dressing or add an egg as well.

Apple and melon are better options glucose wise than banana. A hard boiled egg or a lump of hard cheese could be options if you really need something, assuming a bigger more filling lunch doesn’t help.

For the spag bog did you have spaghetti? That spikes a lot of us. Try just more of the meat sauce or use green veg (courgetti maybe) or even the non grain pasta you can get (Aldi do some bean based ones sometimes I think). Wraps would be causing the rise as they are grains and quite high carb. The breakfast could be quite good. The baked beans may or may not be ok for you in small portions. The sausages are fine if they are high meat % and not full of fillers. The bacon is fine. It’s really hard to change a lifetime of indoctrination about not eating fats but low carb means we really do need them if we are to avoid the carbs that are making us sick and fat (unused glucose gets stored as body fat). Sweet potatoes are just as bad a white ones for carbs, just a little more fibre. A plate without obvious carbs looks odd at first but you soon get used to having more of what’s left or finding (sometimes creative) alternatives much lower in carbs.

Now as you’re on insulin you’d have to reduce the carbs gradually and keep testing to avoid hypos. Initially you’d just see less high/normal numbers but continue to reduce carbs and you’d go the low unless you adjust the insulin downwards too to match the new intake. If you were to cut out all the above mentioned carbs in one go the hypos could kick in almost immediately- diet can be that powerful and quick a tool. Done wisely and with knowledge and care it’s great though.

If really attentive low carb doesn’t help, or not much or not for long I’d be asking if I were really type 2 despite the obvious conclusions based on weight and diet alone

 

[maryjaneholland]

@Nell83 welcome to the forum, yes I'm really struggling with "major lifestyle changes" too and just taking each day at my own pace swapping out unhealthy foods for healthier alternatives, and just wanted to share range of plant based recipes and veggie inspirations for food as there's so much more out there than "boiled veg stew" or "brown lentil veg slop" from previous decades, and the majority of Indians (roughly 1.4 billion people!) live on vegetarian diets and have done so for thousands of years so scaremongering without facts or evidence is not so helpful when people living with diabetes are struggling to improve their diets and make healthy changes...

Vegetarian Society Free Recipes

Recipes - Vegetarian Society

Eating veggie » Recipes Recipes

vegsoc.org

Vegan Society Free Recipes

Recipes

We're about to rock your world with mind-blowing vegan food!

www.vegansociety.com

YouTube and search engines have all kinds of cooking tutorials, and with cheap Airfryers, it's easy and quick to turn food staples like bag of fresh veg, food cupboard tinned tomatoes, low carb pasta, into healthy plant based meals, I surprised my self at how well cauliflower with olive oil and seasoning roasts, and world away from "school dinners" we all dread, so I'm cooking one-pan veg stir fry with high protein noodles and tofu on portable induction hub without working kitchen or fitted cooker and feel better for making healthier choices to lower my BG levels - and you can too with inspiration and new ideas and forum backing you!