Exercise on low calorie diet

[endorium]

Hi, started an 800 calorie per day diet. It includes all the protein, vitamins etc I need. I am type 2 diabetic with a h1ac of 51.
I'm 6'2 and 99kg and looking to get to 88kg ish.

So far, diet is going fine. But, I mountain bike quite a lot. Fairly fit. A typical day riding can be usually 4-5 hours and nearly 2000 calories burned. I haven't ridden since going on the diet a week ago. On the days I go for these big rides, should I have an extra banana or two? I will go over 800 calories, but I'm burning a lot on those days.

I dont take any diabetes meds, just statins (I'm 45) below is my graph for yesterday which is typical since I started the diet.

 

[Kristy Star]

Hi @endorium 🙂 sounds like you are really active and I believe it's really important to fuel your body enough to go out for those big rides. Maybe you could try speak to your GP about your concerns? I'm sure they'll be able to provide you with the advice that's most suitable for you.
You might also find helpful by calling our helpline !

 

[endorium]

Hi, unfortunately a doctor's appointment is always around 4 weeks away from being available. Even when I have been,.they haven't been great (complaints have been raised), looking for some real life experience from people.
My thinking is even though on 800 calories a day, it would make sense.to have more protein on days I plan big activities to stop me running out of energy? Just looking for what people in a similar position do

 

[SimonP]

I'm T1, so it's a different ballgame, but having tweaked my basal "perfectly" for a couple of ~6h rides, with "perfect" meaning I never needed to/was able to eat anything (so actually not so perfect), I did really needed to eat something after about 5h, but didn't dare take any bolus to be able to eat/didn't want to run high by just eating, and the last hour and bit home was a drag with a distinct lack of power available.

But fundamentally I would happily ride for say 4h without eating anything, so I suppose it really depends on whether you're really hungry/feel like your power is dropping off due to lack of carbs.

With the energy deficit you have while riding, not to mention during the day with your calorie restriction, I doubt there's any particular problem with eating significantly more while riding if you feel you need it. I'd also be a bit careful to make sure you don't end up with a massive calorie deficit at the end of days with long rides and perhaps ensure you do eat a bit more afterwards to top up at least some of the calories you burned to avoid getting ill and/or just not wanting to ride due to lack of energy.

 

[CliffH]

Hi, started an 800 calorie per day diet. It includes all the protein, vitamins etc I need. I am type 2 diabetic with a h1ac of 51.
I'm 6'2 and 99kg and looking to get to 88kg ish.

So far, diet is going fine. But, I mountain bike quite a lot. Fairly fit. A typical day riding can be usually 4-5 hours and nearly 2000 calories burned. I haven't ridden since going on the diet a week ago. On the days I go for these big rides, should I have an extra banana or two? I will go over 800 calories, but I'm burning a lot on those days.

I dont take any diabetes meds, just statins (I'm 45) below is my graph for yesterday which is typical since I started the diet.

View attachment 31664

I'm Late Onset Type 1 and a keen road cyclist. I know there's been lots of discussion recently about 'fasted rides' - without (as I understand it) clear evidence one way or the other as to its effectiveness. Of course, nowadays the thinking is that, certainly in races, serious cyclists can (and need to) take in more carbs on the go than used to be thought the case. Speaking for myself, I always fuel for whatever carbs I think I'll burn: my Libre 2 monitor lets me know afterwards how well or badly I've managed that.

After long rides (three hours or more) I drink 500ml of SIS recovery drink (a protein/carbs mix): that sends my blood sugar shooting up - but only temporarily. Certainly I don't need any insulin to bring it back down. Also, a big ride will mean that I'm still 'burning' carbs far more easily than usual for at least 24 hours afterwards. I wouldn't want to put myself through the level of bonking that I can imagine would happen if I tried long fasted rides: I'm not paid to ride .

 

[silentsquirrel]

No personal experience, but I am fairly sure I have read on here that exercise was not recommended on the original Newcastle Diet because of the severe restriction on calories.

 

[Drummer]

I am pretty sure you will bonk - even with bananas, as if you are fat adapted you can't flip back into burning glucose fast enough.
I used to cycle quite a bit and learned to lower the intensity pretty quickly when on a calorie reduced diet - the daft thing was that I didn't lose much weight as I just slowed down, my core temperature dropped and I went grey.
When I went back to low carbing and normal calories I'd need a little while to recover and then my weight began to go down - and my GP would make snarky comments about 'oh at last you are listening to me about reining in your appetite'.
I would be taking my life in my hands to try cycling around this area today - so many obstacles in the road and car drivers not willing to allow anything smaller than their vehicle to go ahead of them.

 

[Eddy Edson]

No personal experience, but I am fairly sure I have read on here that exercise was not recommended on the original Newcastle Diet because of the severe restriction on calories.

I think it was more the risk of overcompensating for the increased energy expenditure: burn an adeditional 300 kcal from exercise, eat a 500 kcal chocolate bar or whatever.

Anyway, I'd recommend getting expert advice, maybe from an exervise physiologist if possible. With rapid weight loss you will lose some lean/muscle mass; in particular resistance training should be useful to control that a bit. Whether or not you do tend to overcompensate for additional energy burn from aerobic exercise is an individual matter, but needs to be borne in mind and balanced against accelerateed lean mass loss.

 

[CliffH]

Hi, started an 800 calorie per day diet. It includes all the protein, vitamins etc I need. I am type 2 diabetic with a h1ac of 51.
I'm 6'2 and 99kg and looking to get to 88kg ish.

So far, diet is going fine. But, I mountain bike quite a lot. Fairly fit. A typical day riding can be usually 4-5 hours and nearly 2000 calories burned. I haven't ridden since going on the diet a week ago. On the days I go for these big rides, should I have an extra banana or two? I will go over 800 calories, but I'm burning a lot on those days.

I dont take any diabetes meds, just statins (I'm 45) below is my graph for yesterday which is typical since I started the diet.

View attachment 31664

I am pretty sure you will bonk - even with bananas, as if you are fat adapted you can't flip back into burning glucose fast enough.
I used to cycle quite a bit and learned to lower the intensity pretty quickly when on a calorie reduced diet - the daft thing was that I didn't lose much weight as I just slowed down, my core temperature dropped and I went grey.
When I went back to low carbing and normal calories I'd need a little while to recover and then my weight began to go down - and my GP would make snarky comments about 'oh at last you are listening to me about reining in your appetite'.
I would be taking my life in my hands to try cycling around this area today - so many obstacles in the road and car drivers not willing to allow anything smaller than their vehicle to go ahead of them.

I grew up in South London and used to do time trials on the A2, A3 and A12 😱. I take my bike with me when I visit family there but recently I gave up on my old training routes, thanks to the quantity of close passes. I've discovered Richmond Park though: the seven-mile perimeter road's good for cycling - and I was amazed to see people doing efforts on time trial bikes. It made me feel sad though: when I was a kid we never bothered training in Richmond Park, as the roads seemed safe (and empty) enough .

 

[SimonP]

I think it was more the risk of overcompensating for the increased energy expenditure: burn an adeditional 300 kcal from exercise, eat a 500 kcal chocolate bar or whatever.

Anyway, I'd recommend getting expert advice, maybe from an exervise physiologist if possible. With rapid weight loss you will lose some lean/muscle mass; in particular resistance training should be useful to control that a bit. Whether or not you do tend to overcompensate for additional energy burn from aerobic exercise is an individual matter, but needs to be borne in mind and balanced against accelerateed lean mass loss.

I know the quantity of calories/carbs burned are not as many as one might think, but for some reason I can never eat enough food in the days afterwards (and I just don't change weight whatever I do, at least to the accuracy of my old-school mechanical scales).

I do feel the calories burned vs calories consumed is missing something, but everything one reads simply says that metabolism still uses the same number of calories and just does less housekeeping. Perhaps the missing link is energy used to increase muscle mass? Or perhaps if you're riding a bike for 10h you've got less time to eat a proper meal and snacks which might happen sat at home doing nothing/watching TV/etc (I always want snacks - a hang over from old insulins), so you end up with an additional calorie deficit because of that.

 

[CliffH]

I know the quantity of calories/carbs burned are not as many as one might think, but for some reason I can never eat enough food in the days afterwards (and I just don't change weight whatever I do, at least to the accuracy of my old-school mechanical scales).

I do feel the calories burned vs calories consumed is missing something, but everything one reads simply says that metabolism still uses the same number of calories and just does less housekeeping. Perhaps the missing link is energy used to increase muscle mass? Or perhaps if you're riding a bike for 10h you've got less time to eat a proper meal and snacks which might happen sat at home doing nothing/watching TV/etc (I always want snacks - a hang over from old insulins), so you end up with an additional calorie deficit because of that.

I doubt that there's much research evidence looking specifically at metabolic rates and people with diabetes who do heavy exercise!

The human body is of course a collection of inter-connected systems and processes and we can't always be sure how intervening with one system/process will affect the whole. Also, homeostasis is an artform: our bodies don't like abrupt changes and will do their best to compensate - even if we've instigated those abrupt changes ourselves.

Whenever I try to discuss the intricacies of my diet and cycling regime with my medical team they just glaze over: their attitude is, "Whatever you're doing seems to be working, so just keep doing it and don't worry too much about why it's working".

 

[SimonP]

I doubt that there's much research evidence looking specifically at metabolic rates and people with diabetes who do heavy exercise!

The human body is of course a collection of inter-connected systems and processes and we can't always be sure how intervening with one system/process will affect the whole. Also, homeostasis is an artform: our bodies don't like abrupt changes and will do their best to compensate - even if we've instigated those abrupt changes ourselves.

Whenever I try to discuss the intricacies of my diet and cycling regime with my medical team they just glaze over: their attitude is, "Whatever you're doing seems to be working, so just keep doing it and don't worry too much about why it's working".

I get similar, they are supportive but they admit that they simply don't know - I guess it's not a "normal thing" for the medical profession to see, hence my joining this site, amongst others, to work out what others do 🙂

 

[endorium]

Yep, why I started this topic, they aren't much help at the gp's. Going for an all day ride Friday. Will take some turkey/cheese wraps. What I've been recommended for low carb/high protein snack. Monitor from there. Can always munch something else if needed if I need more carbs. Then back to low calorie diet then next day

 

[SimonP]

I'd be tempted to take something fast acting, a gel or some sweets just in case you bonk. It's not many carbs, so it's not going to do any real harm in the grand scheme, but if it means you can make it back then it's worth it - this is my T1 cycling life, masses of emergency snacks onboard and hopefully not ever/often needed! 🙂

 

[Drummer]

I grew up in South London and used to do time trials on the A2, A3 and A12 😱. I take my bike with me when I visit family there but recently I gave up on my old training routes, thanks to the quantity of close passes. I've discovered Richmond Park though: the seven-mile perimeter road's good for cycling - and I was amazed to see people doing efforts on time trial bikes. It made me feel sad though: when I was a kid we never bothered training in Richmond Park, as the roads seemed safe (and empty) enough .

My dad did an apprenticeship in bike building and made cycles and tandems for the 25 and 50 mile trials which went into the Guinness bool of Records.
He used to go out on test runs on the tandems with a big rugby player mate on the back and they used to overtake cars.
I had a racing bike back in the day made up from the bits and pieces still lying around at home, and it was so light compared to those ridden by other people, but the lightweight alloys don't last. The bike I have now is far more suited to shopping than breaking the speed limit.

 

[CliffH]

I get similar, they are supportive but they admit that they simply don't know - I guess it's not a "normal thing" for the medical profession to see, hence my joining this site, amongst others, to work out what others do 🙂

As an ex-NHS clinician myself I can understand it: they want to be concentrating scarce resources on people who are really struggling, rather than debating fuelling strategies with a cyclist 🙄.

 

[CliffH]

My dad did an apprenticeship in bike building and made cycles and tandems for the 25 and 50 mile trials which went into the Guinness bool of Records.
He used to go out on test runs on the tandems with a big rugby player mate on the back and they used to overtake cars.
I had a racing bike back in the day made up from the bits and pieces still lying around at home, and it was so light compared to those ridden by other people, but the lightweight alloys don't last. The bike I have now is far more suited to shopping than breaking the speed limit.

Really: do you feel able to tell me his name? Yes, in my day (1980s and early '90s), we thought that light weight was of crucial importance for cycling: our understanding of aerodynamics was very primitive, although it was starting.

 

[Drummer]

Really: do you feel able to tell me his name? Yes, in my day (1980s and early '90s), we thought that light weight was of crucial importance for cycling: our understanding of aerodynamics was very primitive, although it was starting.

He was Ron Gillott, living in York. It would be way back between the wars and for a few years after being demobbed in 1945.
He went on doing repairs and refurbishing bikes at home just about his entire life.
In the weeks before Christmas there were bigger bikes lined up all along the side passage of the house and small ones anywhere they would fit, then on Christmas Eve a constant procession of people coming to collect them and my parents trying to remember where they'd been put.
One year a small bike had been put on top of my mum's wardrobe and she'd already gone to bed when she remembered it. My Dad went off with an overcoat over his pyjamas, still in his slippers, to deliver it. Seconds after the door closed (we were told) the recipient came dashing downstairs shrieking that he'd seen Father Christmas bring his bike. Dad had bright silver hair from his late 20s and he let it grow long.

 

[CliffH]

He was Ron Gillott, living in York. It would be way back between the wars and for a few years after being demobbed in 1945.
He went on doing repairs and refurbishing bikes at home just about his entire life.
In the weeks before Christmas there were bigger bikes lined up all along the side passage of the house and small ones anywhere they would fit, then on Christmas Eve a constant procession of people coming to collect them and my parents trying to remember where they'd been put.
One year a small bike had been put on top of my mum's wardrobe and she'd already gone to bed when she remembered it. My Dad went off with an overcoat over his pyjamas, still in his slippers, to deliver it. Seconds after the door closed (we were told) the recipient came dashing downstairs shrieking that he'd seen Father Christmas bring his bike. Dad had bright silver hair from his late 20s and he let it grow long.

What a coincidence: my first 'proper' bike had an A.S. Gillott frame! I bought it from an advert in The Comic in 1980: It was '531' (only single-butted) and several years old by that point. I raced (and commuted) on it until it was stolen the following year .

 

[Drummer]

What a coincidence: my first 'proper' bike had an A.S. Gillott frame! I bought it from an advert in The Comic in 1980: It was '531' (only single-butted) and several years old by that point. I raced (and commuted) on it until it was stolen the following year .

I think that was Uncle Arthur in London.