employment advice required

[will2016]

Hi All
Sorry to be a pain, but wondered if anyone on here had any knowledge of employment rights, I have had an ongoing struggle with my immediate managers for some time

I am field based.


It started in 2008 when the managers did a spot check on the company car and said it wasnt up to standard, I had been away 10 days and was abroad, this included a female member of staff having her monthly and staining the seat, I got the blame despite her ringing and telling them it was her.

After this they accused me of running up a massive bill on the company mobile phone, this was later proved to be by a guy who had left,after several months of a living hell, afterwards i got no apology and tried to raise a grievance against the manager, he referred me to another of my managers and i said i wanted to go ahead with this, it was ignored and nothing ever happened.


A few weeks ago i was told my job was going and i would have to take an office job, i told them i could not cope with this due to previous jobs were i suffered severe stress (breakdown) they made me have a medical assessment which backed this up last week, as it turned out the job situation changed and my jobs safe till December, they did not know the outcome of the medical assessment when the job situation changed so that wasnt the reason.

Basically what happening now is that they are saying I have done wrong again because I did not inform my managers that i had changed my planned work for one day last week, but this was because their own senior manager cancelled my work for that day and told me to attend a meeting elsewhere, and we rang our immediate managers that this was happening, and there was also some correspondance between my managers and senior managers, so as far as I know they knew what was happening.

Now although this started in 2008 this seems to have gotten a lot worse since I was diagnosed as type 2 in March 2010, they are picking up on the slightest thing and hammering me for it, I have had to have a few days off on rehab leave as I switched from Metformin to Glicklazide, I last had 2 sick days at the beginning of September last year.

I am at my wits end and really dont know what to do, I want to quit, wife wants me to quit, we can just about manage but I have done this job for 9 years and I have been one of the best at it for all that time, and I am stubborn and don't see why I should give them what they appear to want,

Sorry this is longwinded, I did shorten it 🙂 if anyone can help I would be so grateful

 

[Northerner]

I can't offer any advice I'm afraid, but it sounds as though you have been treated appallingly. Is it a small or large company? I worked for a small company where most of the bosses were directors and they treated the employees very shabbily. I stuck with it mainly because I like the actual work I was doing and working with the customers, but got absolutely no credit for the fact that I frequently put myself out for them.

Have you tried any business-related forums? There are some good employers out there who might be able to give you some guidance. I think one or two of our members work in HR so they might be able to help. Sometimes you hurt them most by leaving them - and leaving them without a hard-working, dedicated employee who they really ought to try and look after better - I've been in that situation several times. Wishing you well for the future - don't waste too much energy on them, save it for your own ventures 🙂

 

[Robster65]

If they're trying to push you out, it sound slike constructive dismissal.

If you don't think they are and are making your life hell, then I think there is legislation against bullying in the workplace. Might need to contact citizens advice or a tribunal but I've never had any experience of this.

Rob

 

[Dizzydi]

Will I can give you a few pointers. I work in hr. But my phone battery is about to die. I will log on at work tomorrow and give you a few bits of info and ways to try.

 

[lucy123]

Hi Will,

Sounds like a possible case for Constructive Dismissal to me.

My suggestion is you call ACAS as soon as possible. Their service is totally free to all, and is totally confidential.

I don't think there will be much you can do for things happening in 2008 (but they will know) and there is no way your request for a grievance should have been ignored -do you have any proof you asked for this?

It sounds like they are trying to make life as difficult as possible so you leave - but please try and stay and use ACAS.

I left a job through being bullied out in the past and it takes a while to get over it.

Learn your rights from ACAS - do what they tell you - and then you will have the power.

It sounds like it could be heading for a compromise agreement, where through ACAS you are able to prove bullying or harrassment, and then you both agree that you no longer can work together and you get a good payout to give you time to find something else.

Please call ACAS today and let me know how you get on - you can't continue like this.

PM me too if you like 🙂- I am in HR also - as well as Finance!

 

[margie]

I was going to suggest ACAS to. The other option is if you are in a union speak to them - the reps can help support you and some unions give you a couple of hours of free legal advice with your subscription.

If you are not already start keeping records of all the incidents and where you can get the documentation to back you up.

Sorry that you are having such an awful time - hope Di or Lucy can help you.

 

[Ellie Jones]

You do need to talk to ACAS as they will tell you all your rights etc.

Proving unfair, harassment or constructive dismissal isn't easy at all..

What you need to do now, is keep notes if your schedual is changed, not date, time who changed them, who they/you told whether it was phone, e-mail etc.. And negetive comments made, again date, time who said it etc.. If you can find any information, concerning your past complaints/grievences all the better..

Good luck, I've been in a similar position and it isn't pleasent at all, so stay strong and try not to stress too much..

 

[ypauly]

I was a senior shop steward for 5 years and dealt with many situations like this.

My first advice would be to be sure and the easiest way is quite simply to ask. Get an appointment with your manager and explain how you feel and ask how he/she feels about you.
It is no good going to ACAS or solicitors unless you have tried your companies official grievance procedure (assuming you company is large enough to have one) The first step is usually to try and resolve the matter informally, which if you followed my first advice you would allready have done. You would be amazed at how many managers stop pushing somebody around once they realise the person doesn't want to be pushed and they are about to look bagd to thier boss/manager.

Also if you decide to go straight to law/ACAS you may look like a trouble maker that they need to be rid of so be careful of how you put yourself accross, try friendly first because if that doesn't work how you look no longer matters.

Once you reach the formal stages of the company procedure, take proffessional advice, we all sound good on the internet but really it isn't the best place when your future is at stake.

 

[margie]

I was a senior shop steward for 5 years and dealt with many situations like this.

My first advice would be to be sure and the easiest way is quite simply to ask. Get an appointment with your manager and explain how you feel and ask how he/she feels about you.
It is no good going to ACAS or solicitors unless you have tried your companies official grievance procedure (assuming you company is large enough to have one) The first step is usually to try and resolve the matter informally, which if you followed my first advice you would allready have done. You would be amazed at how many managers stop pushing somebody around once they realise the person doesn't want to be pushed and they are about to look bagd to thier boss/manager.

Also if you decide to go straight to law/ACAS you may look like a trouble maker that they need to be rid of so be careful of how you put yourself accross, try friendly first because if that doesn't work how you look no longer matters.

Once you reach the formal stages of the company procedure, take proffessional advice, we all sound good on the internet but really it isn't the best place when your future is at stake.

I think maybe my comment about a solicitor was misinterpreted - I wasn't advocating taking legal action just that if through union membership he could get some free legal advice that might show a way forward.

I think I am correct in this (ypauly correct me if I am wrong) but even if a company does not have its own grievance procedure it is meant to follow one in lines with the ACAS guidelines.

 

[lucy123]

I was a senior shop steward for 5 years and dealt with many situations like this.

My first advice would be to be sure and the easiest way is quite simply to ask. Get an appointment with your manager and explain how you feel and ask how he/she feels about you.
It is no good going to ACAS or solicitors unless you have tried your companies official grievance procedure (assuming you company is large enough to have one) The first step is usually to try and resolve the matter informally, which if you followed my first advice you would allready have done. You would be amazed at how many managers stop pushing somebody around once they realise the person doesn't want to be pushed and they are about to look bagd to thier boss/manager.

Also if you decide to go straight to law/ACAS you may look like a trouble maker that they need to be rid of so be careful of how you put yourself accross, try friendly first because if that doesn't work how you look no longer matters.

Once you reach the formal stages of the company procedure, take proffessional advice, we all sound good on the internet but really it isn't the best place when your future is at stake.

Not sure I agree here YPauly🙂

In my case I was being bullied by my boss and the boss above. I was made to believe I was some silly little weak girl whenever I tried to sort things. I was constantly 'set up' and blamed for things that weren't my fault. I had lost the strength to stick up for myself and knew I was fighting a losing battle. I had even put it in writing but again I was made to feel stupid and paranoid.

ACAS gave me the strength to fight on through providing me with the knowledge of what my rights were. What I should accept in a working environment and what I shouldn't. They confirmed from listening to my side of the story that I did have a potential case for bullying and harrassment and the environment I was being asked to work in was more like a school playground than a professional environment I had the right to expect.

With regards to being made to be a troublemaker, what about the trouble Wills boss is putting him through? Will has asked to raise a grievance but it got ignored so they probably already see him as a troublemaker - which he isn't.

ACAS even offered to sit in a mediation session with my case, but the employer refused.

I have to say that as soon as I arranged a meeting and advised I had spoken to ACAS and they felt I had a case for bullying and harrassment, it shook them up. My complaint was looked at - and disciplinary procedures against two managers commenced. However during the process the stress made me considerably ill and unfortunately I suffered a few angina attacks. This made me realise I couldn't return to such an unhealthy environment. It was ACAS who supported me again. They advised me to keep notes and continue to send in sickness notes which I did.

After a month or so I received a visit from my work and they came to see me and my husband. It was a totally different manager and HR person. They gave me the time to tell my story and they were horrified. I advised them I had no respect left for my work - the final outcome was they offered me a considerable amount of money as a compromise agreement. I received the large payout and a few weeks later got a new job. I haven't looked back.

Sorry I am taking so long telling my story but Will please fight them. Don't just walk away with nothing. I am proud of the fact I took on these idiots and won.

BTW a few month after I had left there was a huge redundancy hit on Managers at my level - it all makes sense now!

I would recommend a call to ACAS - even if it is just to talk. It can't hurt and you can go back to them at a later date too.

BTW ACAS costs nothing and if you do get a compromise all legal costs have to be paid for by the company too.

Please let me know how you get on whatever you decide to do....and remember you are the good guy in this.🙂

 

[Robster65]

Wow. Well done Lucy. Sadly, managers don't need to be assessed for maturity in many companies. And they tend to promote people who are like-minded to protect themselves. I've worked with a few and it isn't pleasant or easy.

Not sure which method I would choose but certainly keep records of everything as well as call logs and at least you won't be seen as making it all up or a whinger if you can prove a lot of the events happened.

Best of luck.🙂

Rob

 

[Ellie Jones]

Paul,

Nobody saying get ACAS involved to tackle your employers, but saying contact ACAS so they can establish what their actual rights are, what the company actually should be responding with etc... So that when they tackle their manager/company they do so, knowing that they have a right to do so, and that the company can't fob them off as they don't know their rights..

What needs to be bared in mind, Empolyment solicitors do not provide free advice as they don't come under the legal aid scheme.. So you've got to pay for any advice given! Same with if you instruct them to act on your behave you don't get legal aid..

Every company that has employee's have to have a grievance procedure in place, it's company law.. Problem is if you are working in a small company, it's likely that your manager is also the owener/director of the company, unlike large companies were managing directors is normal far removed from the shop floor!

 

[ypauly]

Wow. Well done Lucy. Sadly, managers don't need to be assessed for maturity in many companies. And they tend to promote people who are like-minded to protect themselves. I've worked with a few and it isn't pleasant or easy.

Not sure which method I would choose but certainly keep records of everything as well as call logs and at least you won't be seen as making it all up or a whinger if you can prove a lot of the events happened.

Best of luck.🙂

Rob

Agree entirely on the keeping records, this can make or break any case you bring now or in the future,

 

[ypauly]

Paul,

Nobody saying get ACAS involved to tackle your employers, but saying contact ACAS so they can establish what their actual rights are, what the company actually should be responding with etc... So that when they tackle their manager/company they do so, knowing that they have a right to do so, and that the company can't fob them off as they don't know their rights..

What needs to be bared in mind, Empolyment solicitors do not provide free advice as they don't come under the legal aid scheme.. So you've got to pay for any advice given! Same with if you instruct them to act on your behave you don't get legal aid..

Every company that has employee's have to have a grievance procedure in place, it's company law.. Problem is if you are working in a small company, it's likely that your manager is also the owener/director of the company, unlike large companies were managing directors is normal far removed from the shop floor!

Alot of people have legal cover on home/car insurance policies that will get them a consultation without cost.

Also small companies dont always have a formalised procedures in place and to my knowledge no small company has ever been prosecuted or punished in any way for not having one.

 

[Dizzydi]

Not sure I agree here YPauly🙂

In my case I was being bullied by my boss and the boss above. I was made to believe I was some silly little weak girl whenever I tried to sort things. I was constantly 'set up' and blamed for things that weren't my fault. I had lost the strength to stick up for myself and knew I was fighting a losing battle. I had even put it in writing but again I was made to feel stupid and paranoid.

ACAS gave me the strength to fight on through providing me with the knowledge of what my rights were. What I should accept in a working environment and what I shouldn't. They confirmed from listening to my side of the story that I did have a potential case for bullying and harrassment and the environment I was being asked to work in was more like a school playground than a professional environment I had the right to expect.

With regards to being made to be a troublemaker, what about the trouble Wills boss is putting him through? Will has asked to raise a grievance but it got ignored so they probably already see him as a troublemaker - which he isn't.

ACAS even offered to sit in a mediation session with my case, but the employer refused.

I have to say that as soon as I arranged a meeting and advised I had spoken to ACAS and they felt I had a case for bullying and harrassment, it shook them up. My complaint was looked at - and disciplinary procedures against two managers commenced. However during the process the stress made me considerably ill and unfortunately I suffered a few angina attacks. This made me realise I couldn't return to such an unhealthy environment. It was ACAS who supported me again. They advised me to keep notes and continue to send in sickness notes which I did.

After a month or so I received a visit from my work and they came to see me and my husband. It was a totally different manager and HR person. They gave me the time to tell my story and they were horrified. I advised them I had no respect left for my work - the final outcome was they offered me a considerable amount of money as a compromise agreement. I received the large payout and a few weeks later got a new job. I haven't looked back.

Sorry I am taking so long telling my story but Will please fight them. Don't just walk away with nothing. I am proud of the fact I took on these idiots and won.

BTW a few month after I had left there was a huge redundancy hit on Managers at my level - it all makes sense now!

I would recommend a call to ACAS - even if it is just to talk. It can't hurt and you can go back to them at a later date too.

BTW ACAS costs nothing and if you do get a compromise all legal costs have to be paid for by the company too.

Please let me know how you get on whatever you decide to do....and remember you are the good guy in this.🙂

Hi Will, sorry not posted earlier been tied up with massive HR probs in my work place.

First of speak to your HR people - go above the heads of your manager(s) and put in a formal grievance (make sure you put it in writing as well) and also speak to ACAS or a solicitor for there advise. But as a MUST speak to your HR people and put them in the picture - if they are doing there jobs properly they will step in and look at the managers who are miss behaving - make sure everything is on the record, nothing is ever of the record and get the meeting minuted and request a copy.

pm me like Lucy if you need any further help - I dont need to add any more to the above as others have put good pointers up already

 

[will2016]

thanks all

wow loads of info here, thanks for taking the time and trouble, as many of you know I intend to get out hopefully by crimbo anyway, so just wanted to be left alone till then but they seem set on making me miserable and leave.

I work for a large Gov dept, can't say too much, the things continue, They email me at my home address whilst colleagues get them at work, later than me, i think so i see it at home first and have longer to worry over them, small thing but even the colleagues thinks it's deliberate..


Latest is we are allowed to do flexi hours and carry a debit of one day over from the previous month, with all the stuff going on I took 2 days off and didnt get back below one day by the end of July, emailed line manager 29 july, apologised and said I would make it up, she had a moan and emailed back acceping things, worked really hard 1st week of August and brought things to below a day,, Now another managers has emailed me demanding why i went over last month, even though thats policy if its approved by another manager thats an end to it, but not in my case.


My union rep has said I have a case for grievance but wants to try and mediate first, so thats the way its going just now, although she suggested a meeting, after all the meetings last month i'd rather not, so she is going to try and sort things, and at least that will make them aware that I am clearly unhappy and that the union are involved and supporting me.

On an other front my wife may be made rendundant and if so we clear the mortgage and move to Kent, away from the city at least.

So thanks everyone fingers crossed, again 🙂 keep you posted if anyone's still awake after reading this 🙂

 

[will2016]

latest, the union rep has intervened and had a chat with all the managers and they have agreed that things could have been handled better and that there had been "communication issues" among themselves, upshot is they have backed off on everything and ageed that my work is of the highest standard, and the other stuff is best left alone, amazing what the union can do, so now its clean slate time, they will let me get on with things and i will make sure they cannot pick on anything else till i get out of there, so I am happy and grateful for all the help 🙂

 

[AlisonM]

Fantastic news Will, I'm so glad it's worked out for you. Still, I hope you find a new job soon, the sooner you're out of there, the better.

 

[ypauly]

latest, the union rep has intervened and had a chat with all the managers and they have agreed that things could have been handled better and that there had been "communication issues" among themselves, upshot is they have backed off on everything and ageed that my work is of the highest standard, and the other stuff is best left alone, amazing what the union can do, so now its clean slate time, they will let me get on with things and i will make sure they cannot pick on anything else till i get out of there, so I am happy and grateful for all the help 🙂

I'm glad it worked out well for you.

 

[margie]

I am glad to hear that your Union Rep has sorted things out. Good luck with the escape tunnel....