Do they have any right to do this?

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robert@fm

robert@fm

Much missed member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
This morning, having been woken up by my carer, she told me that she had been told to "make sure I took my insulin shot" (this being 9:45, three hours earlier than I customarily take my first shot of the day). I tried to tell her that I usually take my shot at around lunchtime, but she wouldn't listen, so (against my informed judgement that a shot wasn't necessary, and may not have been safe — another problem is that my heating isn't working, because I have run out of gas and those idiots at Nationwide have cancelled my debit card three weeks before it was due to expire, even though I have not received any replacement card, so I can't buy any more gas) I was made to give myself a shot. Of course, I gave myself only 10 units, which is unlikely to have very much effect, but that doesn't stop this stunt being (in my opinion) stupid, irresponsible and dangerous.

So, do they have any right? I may be housebound, but there is nothing wrong with my mental facilities (if there was, I should not be living alone, but in a proper nursing home where the staff are actually qualified to do this sort of thing), and to my knowledge nether the carer (who was "just obeying orders" — now precisely where and when have we heard that before?😱) nor the care supervisor who ordered this knows the first thing about diabetes (indeed, the last time she was here the care supervisor was giving me the "you shouldn't be eating that" nonsense we've all heard so many times), much less the complications caused by also having late-stage CKD (in the kidney clinic, I have been repeatedly warned that I am in far more danger from low BG levels than high ones), and in any case I doubt that anyone at Mears has access to my detailed medical records. Hence, to my mind this stunt was not only idiotic, but illegal. What if, due to the unwanted (and unwonted) insulin jab, I were to die of hypoglycaemia in the ~8-12 hour gap between morning and evening care visits? 😱:confused:🙄

Like most posters here, I believe that my D control is solely my responsibility, nobody else's, and that any "help" I get with it should be from qualified medical practitioners and with my consent; so I suspect that today's business was not only idiotic, but illegal, with the possibility of criminal liability. What does anyone suggest? Should I contact Lambeth Community Law Centre and ask if they do home visits?
 
No one has any right to force an insulin injection- unless you were at iminent risk of coma death and impaired capacity due to same ( in which case I hope the treatment would be hospital based and intravenous)
You are in charge of your diabetes not the carer and this needs to be made clear. I would complain. Even experienced nursing and medical staff do not always get it right with diabetes as everyone is different, let alone carer
 
They have no right whatsoever to force you to do anything against your express wishes. I would now draft a formal complaint explaining that you will be taking legal advice for putting you at risk from misapplied medication. This is not only bonkers it is bordering on criminal irresponsibility and it needs stopping and stopping today.
 
Regarding your gas you must be absolutely freezing. If you want me to buy it and pay me back when you get your card sorted then message me and I will do it for you. Nobody should be freezing cold in their own home in November. Alternatively I will pay using my debit card and you an arrange a bank transfer. Whatever works best for you is fine by me Robert 🙂
 
I think you are 100% correct Robert. You should not be forced to take your medication to suit someone else's timetable. It's your diabetes so you control it until such times as you can't when a suitably qualified Medical person should. If you'd refused what would she have done? given it to you herself (or common assault as it's otherwise known). Complain as loudly as you can (I know it will be eloquently crafted). If you need to resort to Law then do so. you have rights, needing a carer does not diminish those rights.
 
Robert ...with regards to the Gas ...you need to get yourself on the Priority Services Register. Gas suppliers are obliged by Ofgem to offer services that mean you would not be without energy. You will also get free annual Gas Safety checks. If you aren't able to arrange this yourself, ask someone from the local CAB to call round and they can arrange this for you.
 
Robert, this is wrong on every single level. Complain as loudly as you can. As others have said, speak to DUK, and please, please sort your gas out - it's freezing and no-one should not have to be cold in their own home.
Please let us know how you get on and if any of us can help in any way.
 
As others have said @robert@fm, this is wrong on every level. I'd suggest a formal letter of complaint to whoever sends your carer making it clear that the person's insistence on the injection could have had serious effects on your health, putting you in real danger. Definitely speak to DUK.

Have you called Nationwide regarding your card? They should not have cancelled your card early and should ensure that you have the new one ASAP.

Here is some info from CAB on how to get on the Priority Services Register.
 
Robert, as a matter of interest, is this a home care service provided by Social Services and sub contracted to a private agency? If so, you need to contact Social Services and formally complain. They are responsible for your Care Plan and the contractual details under which it's provided seeing as they commission these services.
This is tantamount to abuse! Doesn't anyone ever review your services from the LA Social Services Dept?

Of course the carer cannot insist on you doing anything you deem against your interests as long as you have mental capacity (which you obviously do).
Tell them to take a hike!
 
Amigo said:
Robert, as a matter of interest, is this a home care service provided by Social Services and sub contracted to a private agency? If so, you need to contact Social Services and formally complain. They are responsible for your Care Plan and the contractual details under which it's provided seeing as they commission these services.
This is tantamount to abuse! Doesn't anyone ever review your services from the LA Social Services Dept?

Of course the carer cannot insist on you doing anything you deem against your interests as long as you have mental capacity (which you obviously do).
Tell them to take a hike!
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I did not want to rush too far forwards, but if I were attending to you in an emergency, I would be legally obligated to alert our safeguarding team for both the heating and negligent care.
 
I believe we can refuse medical treatment from a doctor. Even if we're sat ill in hospital. We get to discharge ourselves if we like. Someone did that when I was there. I think they were told it was against advice and asked to sign a form & allowed to leave.
If they want to insist on a course of treatment they've to take it to court.
 
Then only time treatment can be given without consent, is in an emergency situation when the patient cannot respond and there is no DNR in force, or under a section 3 notice.
 
As a matter of interest, home carers are strictly forbidden from administering, assisting with or in this area, even passing service users medication. It has to be self administered. The only reason they are insisting you take your insulin in their presence Robert is to meet their scheduling needs not your medical needs. Tell them you take insulin at X o'clock and if they insist on witnessing that you've taken it, they should return then and change the contract with Social Services accordingly. It should say on your care plan what they're required to do. You should have a folder they complete each time. You are also at liberty to make comments on it if you're unhappy with certain actions. They are exceeding their rights and infringing on yours!

It's a disgrace that they haven't alerted the welfare agencies that you are without heating. They should be concentrating on these matters instead of interfering with rights which are entirely yours to make and not within their remit to influence for their own purposes.
 
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OMG Robert this is dreadful. Owen is quite correct there are only certain circumstances when you can be forced to take meds and you don't fit any of them and then only buy a suitably qualified person a paid carer is not suitably qualified, If this happens again you are quite within your rights to say no. I believe they are allowed to watch you take your meds but make you, no definitely not.

I agree with everyone above. I suggest when you put in an official complaint it's best to create a paper trail emails are good too , that way they can't forget or deny you've called , So I'd advise following up any phone calls you make with a letter/email e.g. Re my convo with you on.... a pain I know but on another forum I used to go on we encountered a lot of this.
I hope you can get heating sorted swiftly, can you contact your provider.
 
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and yes it is a disgrace that they haven't alerted the welfare agencies of your plight with gas /power supply
 
Robert...the whole situation is outrageous and I can't add to the advice you're already received. However, I may be able to offer some practical support with the heating situation. I live in Southwark and you're in Lambeth...so we're neighbours. If you're on a card style meter I could pop round and put some credit on it for you. Let me know if this would be a useful stopgap or if there's anything else I might do. We're on this forum to support one another and it would make me happy if I could help.

EDIT: I don't work on Fridays so I could come tomorrow.
 
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It's so lovely to read all the replies on here offering to help and support.

There's not much I can say apart from to echo what everybody else has. You definitely need to complain and make sure you keep a paper copy of it just in case.

Even in hospitals (I'm talking mental health wards), we can force mental health medication on patients but never physical, that includes insulin.

You clearly have capacity to make the decisions as to when and how you take your own insulin so for someone to "just be following orders" is ridiculous! She should have been encouraging you to keep managing it yourself as it keeps you more independence and the point of home care is.... To help stay independent!

If I can help at all, do not hesitate to inbox me 🙂
 
I finally managed to log in to my online banking and read the secure message I was sent on Monday; it turns out that because I tried to spend just over £600 on a new bed frame and mattresses (an unusually large transaction for me), they immediately tagged my card as "suspect" and blocked all transactions on it! 😱🙄 As I've pointed out in my reply to them, this is idiotic (I didn't put it that way, maybe I should have) as (1) that would-be payment was to Argos, to whom I have made payments before (and will again); (2) I then tried to make the payment again, this time through my secure PayPal account, and that should have told them that it was genuine; and (3) the next payment I tried to make was my usual rent payment, to Lambeth Council and for the usual kind of amount, so there was no earthly reason why that one should have been blocked. 🙄

With any luck, when Nationwide open for business in a couple of hours, they should unblock my card; but whether they do or not, I'm seriously thinking of moving my money elsewhere. 😡
 
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