DiABETES UK Nutritional Guidelines

[Bronco Billy]

None of us can avoid Carbs altogether, however the "Types of foods" that cause Obesity and are mostly responsible for the rapid increase in T2 Diabetes are those foods heavily laden with refined Carbs, Sugar and High Fructose corn syrup,(highly processed foods) all of which anyone T2, or not should avoid like the plague! So finding what works for individuals needs to be to cut out all of this as a starting point. Look at what is healthy, eat to your meter, and help to bring your BG Down. For some that might mean cutting all starchy veg Bread Pasta and rice. For others that might just mean reducing portions of starchy veg Bread etc . But at the end of the day, whatever else people do to manage their T2 This needs to be the starting point.

There is no starting point for anyone. A newly diagnosed type 2 will need to experiment a bit to understand how to eat to their meter. Take my brother-in-law, for example, although he doesn’t have any form of diabetes. He is a gardener for the National Trust. He consumes quite a lot of bread, but the nature of his job means that he is a skinny as the rake he uses. If you want to know what is really causing obesity, take a look in your local fast food establishments. You will see people in there who are clearly no strangers to such places. Being a bit partial to a ploughman’s sandwich or spaghetti Bolognese will not make you obese.

“For some that might mean cutting all starchy veg Bread Pasta and rice. For others that might just mean reducing portions of starchy veg Bread etc”

So you agree that it is about an individual finding what works for them. Are you arguing for the sake of it? 🙂

 

[Hamrag]

There is no starting point for anyone. A newly diagnosed type 2 will need to experiment a bit to understand how to eat to their meter. Take my brother-in-law, for example, although he doesn’t have any form of diabetes. He is a gardener for the National Trust. He consumes quite a lot of bread, but the nature of his job means that he is a skinny as the rake he uses. If you want to know what is really causing obesity, take a look in your local fast food establishments. You will see people in there who are clearly no strangers to such places. Being a bit partial to a ploughman’s sandwich or spaghetti Bolognese will not make you obese.

“For some that might mean cutting all starchy veg Bread Pasta and rice. For others that might just mean reducing portions of starchy veg Bread etc”

So you agree that it is about an individual finding what works for them. Are you arguing for the sake of it? 🙂

Sorry! thought this was a forum which values all views! yours and mine included, this is a debate and I am trying to understand others points of view, so if you think I am arguing for the sake of it ! then you must believe that none of what I am saying has any credence, and that is not where I am coming from. Also you site your Brother as an example who does not have Diabetes ! and does a physically demanding job ! which is a very skewed example to use to make a point I think.

 

[Bronco Billy]

This is a forum where all views are welcome, so please continue to express yours. It was meant as a light-hearted comment, hence the smiley emoji next to it.

I used my brother-in-law as an example in response to your comment about causes of obesity, which we all know can lead to someone developing type 2. His example reinforces my point about a ‘one size fits all’ approach to diet not working. He has a diet that suits his lifestyle and is unlikely to develop type 2 by eating the foods you suggest are “heavily laden with refined Carbs, Sugar and High Fructose corn syrup,(highly processed foods) all of which anyone T2, or not should avoid like the plague!” A type 2 with a physically demanding job will also need to consume carbs, which will be worked off, thereby keeping the BGs from going through the roof.

 

[Hamrag]

I agree with this. I'm re-starting Atkins today, please God I can keep to it because at the minute I'm on the road to ruin.

Atkins Diet is very good. However I find that trying to stick too rigidly to a named diet difficult at times. I prefer to look at what I like and swap out the high carb bits for low carb alternatives whilst keeping my good fats at around 70% of my food intake, that way I never feel hungry, and therefore not tempted to go back to carbs.

 

[Drummer]

I agree with this. I'm re-starting Atkins today, please God I can keep to it because at the minute I'm on the road to ruin.

Do you already know your CCLL?
I was amused to realize that my CCLL was exactly the same as the number needed to keep my BG level normal, 50 gm per day, from low carb foods.
I have found it really easy to get back to normal - but I did do LCHF for about 40 years before diagnosis, fighting the advice from HCPs all the way.

 

[MikeTurin]

I have watched an interesting video about blood sugar diet. An experiment was made explaining to people that they had to follow a blood TYPE diet, but they mixed actual blood group and diet. What emerged was that no difference were found against blood type, but everyone that partecipated in the group had lost weight and had better cholesterol and blood exam values. The better results were with the diet most effetive was the A type, or the vegetarian diet, but following other diet worked.

Probabily was a mindful attitude to eat
Last Friday I was out of town for work with some collegues, and due a series of unfortunate circumstances we eaten in a bad eatery. I ordered a salad that arrived full of oil and cheede and in the oil there was some pizza bread soaked in. I have eaten the salad, marked with a big red no the cafeteria, my collegues eated the pizza and the icecream.

By the way when I relaxed the diet, I gained weight, while having good blood exam values. So even with LCHF, if you ead HF, you gain weight.

 

[Hamrag]

I have watched an interesting video about blood sugar diet. An experiment was made explaining to people that they had to follow a blood TYPE diet, but they mixed actual blood group and diet. What emerged was that no difference were found against blood type, but everyone that partecipated in the group had lost weight and had better cholesterol and blood exam values. The better results were with the diet most effetive was the A type, or the vegetarian diet, but following other diet worked.

Probabily was a mindful attitude to eat
Last Friday I was out of town for work with some collegues, and due a series of unfortunate circumstances we eaten in a bad eatery. I ordered a salad that arrived full of oil and cheede and in the oil there was some pizza bread soaked in. I have eaten the salad, marked with a big red no the cafeteria, my collegues eated the pizza and the icecream.

By the way when I relaxed the diet, I gained weight, while having good blood exam values. So even with LCHF, if you ead HF, you gain weight.

Hi Mike, Can you expand on what you mean by relaxing the diet?

 

[Hamrag]

A persons CCLL ( Critical carb level for losing weight) Is more important than the amount of calories consumed, as eating high Fat keeps you feeling fuller for longer, and although fat has a higher calorie density than the other Macro nutrients you eat less calories overall due to satiety. Also Fat does not stimulate the production of 'Insulin' (Fat storing hormone) in type 2 Diabetes which is also a cause of weight gain. Most people who report weight loss typically eat less than 50g net Carbs (around 10% of calories) a day, and eat around 70% of calorie intake in the form of Fats, and 20% calories in Protein.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

A persons CCLL ( Critical carb level for losing weight) Is more important than the amount of calories consumed, as eating high Fat keeps you feeling fuller for longer, and although fat has a higher calorie density than the other Macro nutrients you eat less calories overall due to satiety. Also Fat does not stimulate the production of 'Insulin' (Fat storing hormone) in type 2 Diabetes which is also a cause of weight gain. Most people who report weight loss typically eat less than 50g net Carbs (around 10% of calories) a day, and eat around 70% of calorie intake in the form of Fats, and 20% calories in Protein.

Interestingly, for me, that's complete rubbish.

I eat fat, it's not a magic food.
Once I pass the amount of calories I need, I get fat.
And a lot faster, as fat has twice the calories of carbs and protein.

The only way to lose weight is portion control, (which I suspect you are alluding to when you say that you personally "eat less calories".

It's not an all you can eat buffet to anyone I agree.
I suspect if you do list what calories you eat, you're find it's actually quite few.

 

[Hamrag]

Interestingly, for me, that's complete rubbish.

I eat fat, it's not a magic food.
Once I pass the amount of calories I need, I get fat.
And a lot faster, as fat has twice the calories of carbs and protein.

The only way to lose weight is portion control, (which I suspect you are alluding to when you say that you personally "eat less calories".

It's not an all you can eat buffet to anyone I agree.
I suspect if you do list what calories you eat, you're find it's actually quite few.

Correct on some of what you say, and yes I know when I have tracked my Calorie intake and output I am usually around 200 to 500 deficit, However you are ignoring the Hormone driven fat storing of Higher levels of Insulin stimulated by Carbs and Protein ! and the fact that Fats create Satiation and therefore you eat less! and produce less Insulin. Weight gain is driven by Insulin and the storing of excess sugars from starchy veg, Bread Rice Pasta etc.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Correct on some of what you say, and yes I know when I have tracked my Calorie intake and output I am usually around 200 to 500 deficit, However you are ignoring the Hormone driven fat storing of Higher levels of Insulin stimulated by Carbs and Protein ! and the fact that Fats create Satiation and therefore you eat less! and produce less Insulin. Weight gain is driven by Insulin and the storing of excess sugars from starchy veg, Bread Rice Pasta etc.

If you agree you are in a calorie deficit, there won't be anything to store, insulin or not.
Weight gain is driven by excess calories.

 

[Eddy Edson]

If you agree you are in a calorie deficit, there won't be anything to store, insulin or not.
Weight gain is driven by excess calories.

Yup. And there's a wealth of evidence to the effect that the particular strategy you use for maintaining the deficit is far less important than simply sticking with it, as far as weight loss goes.

 

[chaoticcar]

I eat a high calorie diet with lots of (good) fat but I cannot gain weight and struggle to keep my weight on .I eat lower carbs to try to keep my BGs down
Carol

 

[Drummer]

A persons CCLL ( Critical carb level for losing weight) Is more important than the amount of calories consumed, as eating high Fat keeps you feeling fuller for longer, and although fat has a higher calorie density than the other Macro nutrients you eat less calories overall due to satiety. Also Fat does not stimulate the production of 'Insulin' (Fat storing hormone) in type 2 Diabetes which is also a cause of weight gain. Most people who report weight loss typically eat less than 50g net Carbs (around 10% of calories) a day, and eat around 70% of calorie intake in the form of Fats, and 20% calories in Protein.

I have been put on far too many low calorie diets by doctors who thought they knew better than I did - I just collapsed, no energy, white as a sheet and very little weight loss.
On a low carb diet I feel great, can go out to work - even at the age of 67, and then go out in the evening as well. I might be in a calorie deficit situation, but only because I am dancing around like a tigger on low carb. The same amount of calories but high carb and I'd be putting on weight.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

I eat a high calorie diet with lots of (good) fat but I cannot gain weight and struggle to keep my weight on .I eat lower carbs to try to keep my BGs down
Carol

So you reckon you are on 3000, 4000 calories, and still not gaining weight?
I did at that amount.

 

[Hamrag]

So you reckon you are on 3000, 4000 calories, and still not gaining weight?
I did at that amount.

Calories from Fat are burnt more evenly and efficiently in the absence of Carbs ( without stimulating Insulin production) Calories from Carbs burn in spikes and excess is stored as body fat due to the stimulation of Insulin, and because T2 Diabetics cannot utilise carbs efficiently because of Insulin resistance. the fat is stored more readily! (its not as simple as Calories in and out)

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Calories from Fat are burnt more evenly and efficiently in the absence of Carbs ( without stimulating Insulin production) Calories from Carbs burn in spikes and excess is stored as body fat due to the stimulation of Insulin, and because T2 Diabetics cannot utilise carbs efficiently because of Insulin resistance. the fat is stored more readily! (its not as simple as Calories in and out) View attachment 10178

Ah, the problem I have with all the guru's like Naiman, is they write their books, but my stomach can't read.
So, sadly, it still turns fat into fat, despite then saying it can't.
I burn them efficiently, and I still store the excess, probably just as efficiently.
It really is as simple as calories in, calories out for me.

 

[Hamrag]

Interestingly I had my annual Diabetic review yesterday, and the Nurse advised me to discontinue Gliclizide and slightly increase my Metformin as Metformin is weight neutral, and Gliclizide is weight Increasing. so here is another weight gaining pathway! never as simple as Calories in and out!!

 

[grovesy]

Interestingly I had my annual Diabetic review yesterday, and the Nurse advised me to discontinue Gliclizide and slightly increase my Metformin as Metformin is weight neutral, and Gliclizide is weight Increasing. so here is another weight gaining pathway! never as simple as Calories in and out!!

I found Metformin did not help me with weight loss. Neither did I gain weight on Gliclizide.
Another case we all different and what works can vary from person to person.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

Much the same as me.

I was prescribed Januvia, a Sitagliptin.
When I was taking it, in the year I lost around 4 stone on a low fat diet.
When I stopped taking it, I still lost more weight.

Then on just Metformin, I slightly gained weight, as I started eating more.
Now I'm medication free, I simply adjust the amount I eat to maintain my weight.

It would be nice to have a simple fix, one tablet to lose weight, one to gain weight, that 's the holy grail for dieting though, and they haven't found it yet.