Diabetes as a disability

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Awaiting confirmation from someone who understands employment law, but there are a few issues: I think that time off to attend maternity / pregnancy related appointments is enhrined, but not so sure about other medical / dentist appointments. Then, different employers have different rules eg many of my employers over the years have stated that they prefer people to have medical / dental appointments at the beginning / end of day, so that relatively less work time is affected. On this topic, I found Addenbrookes Hospital very helpful recently - previously I had attended once a year on a Wednesday afternoon, so when I started a year long contract working 80% of full time, 250 miles away, commuting weekly, I asked if I could attend on a Monday morning or Friday afternoon - and they agreed to an early Monday morning appointment, which helped all round. Now, I'm back locally, I don't need such a specific appointment, so don't ask for one. So much of disability discrimination legislation hinges on "reasonable adaptions" by employers - and there is much discussion about what is un/reasonable.
 
At my firm if you spend all day at the hospital it is not counted as sick, but you have to fill in a self cert and produce an appointment card or letter as evidence this is what has happened, just o keep records straight.

No way are medical appointments counted as sick. I am even allowed an afternoon off when I have my retinal scans in the morning as I can't see properly to use my computer
 
Yeah, if you have a hospital appointment, they can't take it as a sick day.
 
a guy (who is HR at his works) i know has just told me that medical appointments are not allowed to be classed as sick days, but your employer can ask to be shown confirmation of the appointment and ask you to come in to work around it. he has told me that you shouldnt even have a statutory number of sick days a year you are allowed to take either.
 
Fantastic link, thanks. Gave me just the answers I was after.
 
Speaking as an HR person...

The DDA requires employers to consider what adjustments are reasonable to their rules and practices to enable you to do the job.

Employers are not required to give you more paid sick days than people without a disability.

If you take a whole day off for medical appointments, employers are entitled to consider it a day of sick leave (nothing stops you asking to use a day of annual leave for it if you prefer). There is no obligation on employers to pay for attendance at medical appointments. Being granted the time as sick leave tends to be better than unpaid leave as most employers pay full pay for a certain number of sick days per year.

As a previous poster stated, the only medical appointments for which paid time off is legally provided are maternity appointments.
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UGGS
 
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KateF said:
Speaking as an HR person...

The DDA requires employers to consider what adjustments are reasonable to their rules and practices to enable you to do the job.

Employers are not required to give you more paid sick days than people without a disability.

If you take a whole day off for medical appointments, employers are entitled to consider it a day of sick leave (nothing stops you asking to use a day of annual leave for it if you prefer). There is no obligation on employers to pay for attendance at medical appointments. Being granted the time as sick leave tends to be better than unpaid leave as most employers pay full pay for a certain number of sick days per year.

As a previous poster stated, the only medical appointments for which paid time off is legally provided are maternity appointments.
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Oh dear, I'm confused again.

Thanks for your comments KateF but this seems to go against what it says on the messageboard Copepod gives the link to.

You say:If you take a whole day off for medical appointments, employers are entitled to consider it a day of sick leave (nothing stops you asking to use a day of annual leave for it if you prefer). There is no obligation on employers to pay for attendance at medical appointments


For me taking it as sick leave is not where I want to go as I sometimes need to use that paid tome for when I am sick (lol) and attending Diabetic clinic to me is not because I'm sick, it's to prevent me from becoming sick!

I prefer what's said on the BBC message board: That Diabetic clinic is disability leave not sick leave.

I haven't tried it out though so does anyone have experience of what happens in reality?
 
AmandaB said:
Oh dear, I'm confused again.

Thanks for your comments KateF but this seems to go against what it says on the messageboard Copepod gives the link to.

You say:If you take a whole day off for medical appointments, employers are entitled to consider it a day of sick leave (nothing stops you asking to use a day of annual leave for it if you prefer). There is no obligation on employers to pay for attendance at medical appointments


For me taking it as sick leave is not where I want to go as I sometimes need to use that paid tome for when I am sick (lol) and attending Diabetic clinic to me is not because I'm sick, it's to prevent me from becoming sick!

I prefer what's said on the BBC message board: That Diabetic clinic is disability leave not sick leave.

I haven't tried it out though so does anyone have experience of what happens in reality?
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I'm lucky in that my boss is happy for me to attend hospital when necessary and make up for missed work later. However ithink the confusion comes from what employers are legally obliged to give you in terms of leave and what they often offer contractually. Employers are not obliged to pay you for time off for medical apointments so can require you to take it as unpaid leave, the way round this us to offer for you to take it as sick leave or holiday so you don't lose money. However some employers offer for attractive medical leave policies as part contract terms.
 
After 29 posts, it appears that no one has actually read the DDA. It does not apply to all diabetics (e.g. people like me who are adequately contolled by diet and exercise are excluded). For the record, people who wear glasses are specifically excluded.

Also, time for a reality check. Unless you work in a job funded by the rest of us (whether public sector or multinational) in the present climate you would be well advised to make up time off or take it as holidays rather than standing on your rights. Small and medium sized firms like the one I workfor are having to make staff redundant and cutting hours all over the country. Surely time to demonstrate you are flexible and (hopefully) indispensable?
 
hermit104 said:
After 29 posts, it appears that no one has actually read the DDA. It does not apply to all diabetics (e.g. people like me who are adequately contolled by diet and exercise are excluded). For the record, people who wear glasses are specifically excluded.

Also, time for a reality check. Unless you work in a job funded by the rest of us (whether public sector or multinational) in the present climate you would be well advised to make up time off or take it as holidays rather than standing on your rights. Small and medium sized firms like the one I workfor are having to make staff redundant and cutting hours all over the country. Surely time to demonstrate you are flexible and (hopefully) indispensable?
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In the dda a disabilty is classed as something that has a 'significant an long term adverse effect on that person carrying out day to day activities' - most explantory notes will describe that this can include diabetes and there have been a number of test cases that have proven the case for diabetes as a disability under dda but there has yet to be a significant test case on diet/exercise controlled diabetes so that remains unproven against the act.and I promise you, I have read it!


Regarding your second point, I do think it is up to each of us individually to decide how we want to 'stand to our rights' regardless of the current employment issues, we each face our own challenges both in managing our condition and in attitudes we encounter along the way so I can fully understand people wanting to use the rights protected under the act as well as those who don't see it as necessary for them. I personally don't have a need for it and don't see myself as disabled but it is reassuring to know it is there if needed.
 
For me when I have appointment I have to request the day as one of my days off. I do shift work and my manager will just work it so that I work my shift on another day.
i have known other people though who have taken the day as sick to miss for an appointment and not asked for their shift to be changed.
 
I agree with Hermit about employees being reasonable and flexible.

As mentioned in my post #21, I have asked for appointments at times when I will be away from work for the least possible time - in fact, my job 250 miles from home was 80% of full time, so it was in my own time, but it was a for a large, well established university, who probably had overly generous time off arrangements, which I saw being exploited by other workers (not with diabetes), which meant the rest of the team had to work longer / more antisocial hours etc.

I guess the problem would come if say the only clinic you could attend was on a Tuesday afternoon and you worked part time, always all day Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. The employer might not appreciate that you didn't have the choice to go to a clinic on Thursday or Friday. However, I am always offered the choice of 12 or 6 monthly appointments, and always take the longest option, as I don't think there'd be any benefit me going more often - and it would take an appointment that might be valuable to someone else, and at least mean they could be seen sooner.
 
Dda?

what is DDA?i read all the message board replies but i havent a clue what it means...in 4 wks i have been diagnosed with,,high p/b,,cholestrol..angina,,and diabetes..and im feeling disabled..and scared to death,,my b/p is sky high,,and i neither drink nor smoke,,so dont know how to control it,,i dont even know what i can or cant eat /drink..its very confusing..
 
Hi

It stands for Disability Discrimination Act. Diabetes is now covered under that act. I only know about it when it is to do with a child ie excluded from school trips, not given adequate and reasonable care at school etc etc.

Adrienne 🙂
 
I think there is a responsiblity on the hospital here too. When I have appointments they demand on the letter that I attend half an hour before the appointment time, so the nurse can check my blood pressure and weight etc. This takes about 10 mins at most. Then I wait twenty mins for the appointment, and often at least another half hour before the doctor will actually see me. I sometimes spend an entire afternoon off, especially when travel time to get to the clinic is included, there is often not time to get back to work before we close. I cannot help it if the doctor is behind schedule. I am lucky that my employer is understanding but if they were not I don't think it would be fair for me to be penalised and waste my annual leave waiting around in the clinic or surgery because the doctor is unable to keep to their timetable. It seems hypocritical since if I am five mins late they will ring me and tell me my appointment is cancelled, yet the doctors are often half an hour or more behind schedule.

Also, the system for making appointments is ridiculous. It seems it is impossible for me to ring them or even make my next appointment when I am leaving the last one. I have to ring them and notify them that I want to make/change the appointment, and they will then write to me with a date and the letter often takes days to arrive even though I live down the road from the clinic. Therefore I cannot make an appointment at a time or day convenient to me or my employer. If, when the letter arrives, the time or day is inconvenient, I need to ring them and get them to send out another letter with another day or time which is usually several months later and still inconvenient. Again, it is the hospital system at fault but me and my employer paying the price.

Do others have these problems?
 
Lizzie said:
Do others have these problems?
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Yes!
Just moved to the UK and therefore will have my first eye scan in this country. My GP told the hospital about it. I told the DN at the GP practice to tell the hospital I'm due in July. So what do I get? A letter with an appointment for today (received it Tuesday).

I phone the hospital to tell them about the situation. Then it appears I cannot make an appointment for July, it's too far away. So now I will get a letter with an appointment at the end of June, so I can phone around that time to get the required time and date in July. Very complicated, if you ask me.
 
I think the term 'disabled' is a label we as diabetics don't like, however, there are grounds where it is an advantage for us to have the cover of the DDA.

In the past people have seen diabetics as a risk, e.g. in a hotel or work place where someone could have a hypo, so the easy option wasn't to have that person there. Now there is cover under the DDA against such actions. We know the risk is very low, but others didn't want to have to take that on.

As diabetes continues its path through our lives and perhaps complications cross our paths, neuropathy, retinopathy etc then the DDA and our diabetic status of disabled covers us and widens the protection. We could look at it as protecting us for the future.

I am aware of a few individuals who aim to profit from taking action against companies under the DDA, claiming they are unable to gain wheelchair access, or can't see the display on a cash register. Each time they walk out with ?3k plus and as its conducted as a tribuneral (the DDA preferred means of enforcement) settlements are confidential and there is no record of how many cases one individual has brought. Clearly miss-use of the law and wrong.

As for DLA, there aren't hard and fast rules about what conditions qualify, the advice I was given is to document every element of your life in a diary for a week where someone else has had to assist you because of your disability.

If you're unable to walk and need someone to help you out of bed or your chair, can't walk a given distance without assistance, cook, clean or take care of your personal needs without assistance (and this doesn't mean you have the assistance, just that you should have it) then you are likely to be qualified for one of the three levels of DLA, then there is the mobility element as well.

My first time I filled the form in as I actually used assistance, it was rejected, the second time (not on appeal) I completed the form with assistance and was awarded DLA. You need to discuss this with your GP and other healthcare professionals you put down.

Until my deafness I didn't consider diabetes a real disability, I could walk, all was ok. However, deafness and the associated balance issues really tax me when I am out and about, I can no longer go out at night without someone else, purely because I would spend more time on the floor or grasping a wall to give me my bearings.

Seemingly many cases rejected on their first application are approved on appeal.

DLA is technically up for review as and when the condition changes, so you can go to them and tell them things have got worse, you're also supposed to tell them when things on a regular basis have improved or compeltely cleared up.
It is therefore possible for someone to be in need of assistance for the minimum period of time and to be awarded it, but when the condition is no longer an issue the DLA should be stopped or reduced.
David
 
Disability Living Allowance

Regarding DLA, applicants have the best chance of being awarded some level (Higher / Middle / Lower Care component and / or Higher / Lower Mobility component) if they get assistance from an advisor with specialist benefits knowledge. For those applying for benefit when over 65, only Attendence Allowance at Higher Rate (roughly equivalent to Higher Rate Care DLA) or Lower Rate (roughly equivalent to Middle Rate Care DLA) - there is no mobility component of AA.

If turned down, then going to tribunal in person has more chance of success than a paper appeal. If going in person, then, again advice and / or representation from a specialist brings higher chance of success.

But, it is very unusual for an adult to get any rate of DLA, if they are well-controlled and have no complications or other disabilities (such as Einstein's hearing problems). It's normal for children under 16 years to get DLA at certain levels - normally MRC & LRC (possibly HRC if they need help through the night, but HRM is only for those "unable or virtually unable to walk")

There are support boards, such as http://www.youreable.com/forums/category.jspa?categoryID=6 which have more information on the topic of disability benefits.
 
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