Hi i have T2 diabetes, I have been on statins for 17 years, i read on the diabetes site that most people with diabetes is offered statins because living with diabetes increases the risk of heart attack and stroke, however i have since been told that statins do not help prevent heart attacks and strokes and statins can actually cause diabetes, cognitive problems , brain fog and muscle and joint problems. I was sent a link by a friend, it stated that statins was a silent killer. and some peoples stories were frightening , many people decided to stop taking the statins and said they don't prevent heart attacks and strokes as many of them had family members that had taken statins and still took heart attacks and strokes, many told stories of people they knew who got dementia, apparently the statins robs the body of the good cholesterol as well as the bad and the brain needs the good cholesterol to function. I have been suffering with really bad brain fog, my short term memory is getting worrying, i have been suffering terrible muscle/ joint pain. after reading peoples stories about statins im wondering if i should consider coming off them, but im really concerned it might be a massive mistake, I would be most grateful for any feedback and would love to know if any other type 2 diabetics are on statins and if they too have any of the problems i have mentioned. TIA
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diabetes and statins
- Thread starter jane58
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Felinia
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- Type 2
Statins seem to be quite a controversial issue. What was the medical reason you were put on them in the first place? Was it at the time when stains were being pushed as the "must take" for everyone over 40, or for a genuine medical issue?
I get the impression that reading posts can give you a skewed impression of their side effects. If people have issues, they post, but if they don't have problems, they don't post, so you mostly hear the bad stuff. I know most people who take statins have no side effects, including several of my friends.
I also know of people who do have issues, including myself. I suffered terrible side effects, including the pains and gastrointestinal issues. My friend had brain fog and was found wandering in the next village with no idea how she got there. We were both taken off them, and it took me 9 months to become pain free.
However I recognised that it was important for me to lower my cholesterol, and I now take a non-statin cholesterol reducing drug. My readings are now all in the normal range, not too low, and with no side effects. Doctors don't tell you, but there are alternatives. But it's something you must weigh up and decide for yourself
I get the impression that reading posts can give you a skewed impression of their side effects. If people have issues, they post, but if they don't have problems, they don't post, so you mostly hear the bad stuff. I know most people who take statins have no side effects, including several of my friends.
I also know of people who do have issues, including myself. I suffered terrible side effects, including the pains and gastrointestinal issues. My friend had brain fog and was found wandering in the next village with no idea how she got there. We were both taken off them, and it took me 9 months to become pain free.
However I recognised that it was important for me to lower my cholesterol, and I now take a non-statin cholesterol reducing drug. My readings are now all in the normal range, not too low, and with no side effects. Doctors don't tell you, but there are alternatives. But it's something you must weigh up and decide for yourself
Inka
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Read both sides @jane58 Statins can help stabilise any plaque in your arteries, which is a very good thing. I know it’s a really hard thing to find information about but there’s a lot of scaremongering out there. I found some good videos, which I’ll try to look for for you later today. They’re by reputable people/organisations.
Hi Jane,
Whilst many medications can prompt discussion about how effective they are I would say this in response.
All medications both type and specific brands may effect different people in different ways often considerably in terms of side effects.
This in my opinion and I am strongly driven by evidence based medicine statins are one of the most proven classes of drug in reducing cholesterol and preventing heart attacks and cardio related problems which as you say being diabetic are at heightened risk.
I was first aware of the benefit of statins when working for one of Company's who produced them 35 years ago so maybe I am “ biased” but although I only started taking them on advice of doctor a few weeks ago thentsrget reduction they seek is 40% in cholesterol
My advice to you is follow the lead of your medical advisor if you are struggling to reduce your cholesterol via dietary/ exercise changes only and see how you get on.
If you have any side effects with your initial medication there are plenty of suitable alternatives to try to get one that suits you so simply change your statin or non statin alternative.
That is my tuppence worth but good luck with your journey.
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TL;DR - look at the papers yourself and make your mind up. My opinion is mine alone!
Statins certainly don't completely remove the risk, but for those with high cholesterol they do reduce it fairly significantly. They don't eliminate it though, which points to statins either not being the complete answer or having some indirect effect. Nevertheless if they reduce risk they reduce risk (and they are very cheap, which is a good thing on a population level).
For those with more normal cholesterol who are simply prescribed them because they are over 40, the evidence is much less favourable imo - if I were you I'd read the NICE guidance and then look at the metastudies they base their guidance on.
I've only looked to determine what basis they have for being prescribed for T1 diabetics with normal cholesterol levels, and I think the answer is not much as the overwhelming majority of evidence used to prescribe to "diabetics" is based on T2 diabetics (which is both more prevalent and nowadays appears to have higher long-term consequences as it's often undetected for long periods.) The proportion of T1 diabetics included in both the statin trials and the trials used for the QRISK2 and QRISK3 tools are very small indeed and it's very hard to determine whether these cohorts are skewed. I also note that some of the supporting studies are specifically based on patients who have already had some CVD event or who have been diagnosed with CVD, which again doesn't help matters as a tool when applied to those without.
As a T1 who is over 40 with normal cholesterol, I don't see any reason to go on statins (due to the rather small reduction in risk and fairly large rate of side-effects). As a T2 (and I don't know your cholesterol) you may have a different opinion. YMMV
Statins certainly don't completely remove the risk, but for those with high cholesterol they do reduce it fairly significantly. They don't eliminate it though, which points to statins either not being the complete answer or having some indirect effect. Nevertheless if they reduce risk they reduce risk (and they are very cheap, which is a good thing on a population level).
For those with more normal cholesterol who are simply prescribed them because they are over 40, the evidence is much less favourable imo - if I were you I'd read the NICE guidance and then look at the metastudies they base their guidance on.
I've only looked to determine what basis they have for being prescribed for T1 diabetics with normal cholesterol levels, and I think the answer is not much as the overwhelming majority of evidence used to prescribe to "diabetics" is based on T2 diabetics (which is both more prevalent and nowadays appears to have higher long-term consequences as it's often undetected for long periods.) The proportion of T1 diabetics included in both the statin trials and the trials used for the QRISK2 and QRISK3 tools are very small indeed and it's very hard to determine whether these cohorts are skewed. I also note that some of the supporting studies are specifically based on patients who have already had some CVD event or who have been diagnosed with CVD, which again doesn't help matters as a tool when applied to those without.
As a T1 who is over 40 with normal cholesterol, I don't see any reason to go on statins (due to the rather small reduction in risk and fairly large rate of side-effects). As a T2 (and I don't know your cholesterol) you may have a different opinion. YMMV
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The unfortunate thing about statins, and trying to understand whether they are right for you is the ridiculous exaggeration from both sides, and the amount of ‘noise’ you have to filter out, both from advocates (and sceptics), and from the experiences of people you know.
There are sources which claim that statins are basically poison, with no positives, and devastating side effects for everyone… Or that statins are a miracle-drug, saving bazillions of lives, with absolutely no negatives at all, and which should be put in the water supply. Neither of these are entirely true, of course.
My thinking:
I think you should ask your Dr if you can try a different type of statin, to see if that reduces your aches and pains @jane58
There are sources which claim that statins are basically poison, with no positives, and devastating side effects for everyone… Or that statins are a miracle-drug, saving bazillions of lives, with absolutely no negatives at all, and which should be put in the water supply. Neither of these are entirely true, of course.
My thinking:
- Statins have been shown to be highly effective both at reducing cholesterol and (importantly) at reducing risk of heart attack/stroke in ‘gold standard’ randomised controlled trials.
- Reducing risk doesn’t mean certainty, it just means you improve your chances of living more years without an event
- The vast majority of people can take statins with no negative effects
- All drugs carry the risk of side effects
- If a person does have side effects like muscle pain or brain fog, there are other statins they can try which could well reduce/eliminate the effects while keeping the risk reduction
- Some people do have a terrible time on Statins. And for them an alternative medication eg Ezetimibe may be better
- The risk builds over time, as does the reduction in risk - so starting earlier, and maintaining the lower levels of LDLc for longer is better
- You take statins to reduce the chances of something happening. Which makes it difficult to see the benefit, because ‘nothing’ is happening.
I think you should ask your Dr if you can try a different type of statin, to see if that reduces your aches and pains @jane58
I am another who has been through the "should I or shouldn't I?" statin debate with myself.
They are usually prescribed for anyone who has had Type 1 diabetes for more than 10 years and is over 40 years of age.
One endocrinologist explained this is based on studies of people with all types of diabetes who are overweight and do not exercise. At the time (I have no idea if this has changed), there was no study on the benefit for people, like me, who are not overweight and exercise regularly.
I do not like taking any medicines unless absolutely necessary (insulin is a necessity).
Every 18 months at my "annual" diabetes review, my current endocrinologist would offer statins and I would decline.
One year, he came up with a different take - people with diabetes have greater fluctuations in their BG which puts extra stress on the heart so it is important to protect our hearts.
I declined the offer and continued to protect my heart by maintaining my weight, exercising regularly and trying to minimise large fluctuations in BG.
I also check my cholesterol results. Unfortunately this was slowly creeping up and, last year, I passed the "healthy threshold" so decided to bite the bullet but to monitor it closely - I carefully read the leaflet that came with the pills and kept an eye on myself for any of the documented side effects.
After 3 months, my cholesterol was checked again and it was back under the threshold. I was experiencing none of the documented side effects.
The only change I have made is to reduce the dose as, for some reason no one can explain, I was started on twice the recommended starting dose.
As has been suggested above, I recommend doing your own research about how statins work, the likelihood of nasty side-effects (these are included in the leaflet with the pills and on line) and making your own decisions.
They are usually prescribed for anyone who has had Type 1 diabetes for more than 10 years and is over 40 years of age.
One endocrinologist explained this is based on studies of people with all types of diabetes who are overweight and do not exercise. At the time (I have no idea if this has changed), there was no study on the benefit for people, like me, who are not overweight and exercise regularly.
I do not like taking any medicines unless absolutely necessary (insulin is a necessity).
Every 18 months at my "annual" diabetes review, my current endocrinologist would offer statins and I would decline.
One year, he came up with a different take - people with diabetes have greater fluctuations in their BG which puts extra stress on the heart so it is important to protect our hearts.
I declined the offer and continued to protect my heart by maintaining my weight, exercising regularly and trying to minimise large fluctuations in BG.
I also check my cholesterol results. Unfortunately this was slowly creeping up and, last year, I passed the "healthy threshold" so decided to bite the bullet but to monitor it closely - I carefully read the leaflet that came with the pills and kept an eye on myself for any of the documented side effects.
After 3 months, my cholesterol was checked again and it was back under the threshold. I was experiencing none of the documented side effects.
The only change I have made is to reduce the dose as, for some reason no one can explain, I was started on twice the recommended starting dose.
As has been suggested above, I recommend doing your own research about how statins work, the likelihood of nasty side-effects (these are included in the leaflet with the pills and on line) and making your own decisions.
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Yes that’s what I was told too. Even in very well managed T1, we will be experiencing glucose fluctuations and instability that non-Ds never would.
Bruce Stephens
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Interestingly, there was a paper recently looking at correlations between large differences between CGM-predicted HbA1c (whatever it's called) and measured HbA1c. Apparently larger differences correlates with a particular kind of heart damage.
rebrascora
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It sound like the video you have been sent by your friend is extreme and just scaremongering. Statins have a place in modern medicine and work well for many people but I am against the blanket prescribing of them and I think people should be treated as individuals, so I think I would be curious as to why you were prescribed them all those years ago. Certainly if you suspect that you may be experiencing side effects then it is worth discussing it with your GP and exploring the other options that are available, bearing in mind that if you are experiencing side effects, it may take many months for them to diminish, so you are not likely to see overnight improvement.
I am 61 and my current Total Cholesterol(TC) is 4.8 which is slightly above the recommended "below 4" that they prefer for those of us with diabetes. I follow a low carb, higher fat way of eating and I eat a lot of saturated fat in the form of cream and cheese and fatty meat and my cholesterol is still lower than at diagnosis when I was eating a high carb, low fat diet, so for me this suggests that the dietary advice regarding cholesterol is perhaps wrong and therefore perhaps the guidelines for safer cholesterol levels are also wrong.
I think part of my concern is that cholesterol is in itself is not bad..... which is something that we have been told for many years. It has many vital functions within the body and I do have concerns that artificially reducing it may not be best, if it isn't too high. If my TC was higher or my ratios were seriously out of kilter, then I would reconsider, but I personally do not believe my current levels are a problem and they have been reasonably stable for 6 years and always lower than at diagnosis when I changed my diet, therefore I do not want to take medication to reduce them.
I am not refusing statins because of a fear of side effects, but simply because I do not want to take any medication that I do not need and I personally feel that I do not need them at the moment. I am prepared to reconsider if things change in the future, but my experience of going low carb and eating more fat has really opened my eyes to medical advice not always being right and that for me as an individual, eating less carbs and more natural saturated fat, has improved many health issues I have struggled with for years and I don't want to counter act that in any way, when it is working well for me.
Not sure if that makes sense. I think you either accept medical advice about it or you do your own balanced research and make your own mind up for yourself as an individual, but don't allow what sounds like one very radical video persuade you statins are bad for everyone, because they are not. There are 2 sides to every coin. Consider your weight and lifestyle and fitness and diet and family history with respect to CVD and cholesterol levels and diabetes management to help you make your individual decision.
I am 61 and my current Total Cholesterol(TC) is 4.8 which is slightly above the recommended "below 4" that they prefer for those of us with diabetes. I follow a low carb, higher fat way of eating and I eat a lot of saturated fat in the form of cream and cheese and fatty meat and my cholesterol is still lower than at diagnosis when I was eating a high carb, low fat diet, so for me this suggests that the dietary advice regarding cholesterol is perhaps wrong and therefore perhaps the guidelines for safer cholesterol levels are also wrong.
I think part of my concern is that cholesterol is in itself is not bad..... which is something that we have been told for many years. It has many vital functions within the body and I do have concerns that artificially reducing it may not be best, if it isn't too high. If my TC was higher or my ratios were seriously out of kilter, then I would reconsider, but I personally do not believe my current levels are a problem and they have been reasonably stable for 6 years and always lower than at diagnosis when I changed my diet, therefore I do not want to take medication to reduce them.
I am not refusing statins because of a fear of side effects, but simply because I do not want to take any medication that I do not need and I personally feel that I do not need them at the moment. I am prepared to reconsider if things change in the future, but my experience of going low carb and eating more fat has really opened my eyes to medical advice not always being right and that for me as an individual, eating less carbs and more natural saturated fat, has improved many health issues I have struggled with for years and I don't want to counter act that in any way, when it is working well for me.
Not sure if that makes sense. I think you either accept medical advice about it or you do your own balanced research and make your own mind up for yourself as an individual, but don't allow what sounds like one very radical video persuade you statins are bad for everyone, because they are not. There are 2 sides to every coin. Consider your weight and lifestyle and fitness and diet and family history with respect to CVD and cholesterol levels and diabetes management to help you make your individual decision.
Fazza
Active Member
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- Type 2
I've been on Statins for around 8 years now, I was offered them because I had hit the age of 40 and was told that at that age with Diabetes it's a good idea to take them.
There are side effects to most medications, there has been a recent communication sent out to everyone in the UK who is on Empagliflozin that it can cause your genitals to become gangrenous in addition to you possibly getting ketoacidosis!
A Doctor friend of mine or knows all about gangrene (he's a Neuropathologist) is also on the same medication that I'm on and when I asked him if he knew about this newly identified risk, he said he had and my next question was if he was still taking the medication or giving it a wide birth - needless to say he's still taking the medication so that'll do for me so I'm still taking mine!
There are side effects to most medications, there has been a recent communication sent out to everyone in the UK who is on Empagliflozin that it can cause your genitals to become gangrenous in addition to you possibly getting ketoacidosis!
A Doctor friend of mine or knows all about gangrene (he's a Neuropathologist) is also on the same medication that I'm on and when I asked him if he knew about this newly identified risk, he said he had and my next question was if he was still taking the medication or giving it a wide birth - needless to say he's still taking the medication so that'll do for me so I'm still taking mine!
Hi @jane58 statins are not as dangerous as the link your friend sent makes out. The Lancet looked at the risk of people getting diabetes as a consequence of taking statins and the risk is small (about 10%) although this risk is higher in people who are already at risk of diabetes and who are on high intensity statins. It is important to note that the 10% is an increased risk not an increased number of people. The primary risks for getting Type 2 diabetes continue to be lifestyle issues and not medication. That actual increase in HbA1c was less than 0.1 mmol/L increase in BG.
As others have said, all medication has side effects on people and one of the bug bears I have, due to my daughter educating me, is that much of the medication on offer to patients has not been properly tested on women and therefore your doctor should be having regular discussions with you about the reason for taking the medication, the side effects that you may be experiencing and the dosage. Fitting all that into a 10-15 minute appointment is difficult but you need to press them to do it so that you can ensure you are getting the right treatment for you. On the up side statins are shown by an Oxford uni study in 2015 to have a positive impact on women.
On the subject of brain fog, I am 63, healthy other than diabetes, don't use any medication other than asthma inhaler, reasonably fit (resting pule of 45 bpm) and eat much healthier now than I have done for many years, I still forget why I went upstairs and spend my life trying to remember the names of people I met last week. So brain fog can often be a simple side effect of getting older. Mind you I am still in strong demand for my golf club quiz team 🙂
As others have said, all medication has side effects on people and one of the bug bears I have, due to my daughter educating me, is that much of the medication on offer to patients has not been properly tested on women and therefore your doctor should be having regular discussions with you about the reason for taking the medication, the side effects that you may be experiencing and the dosage. Fitting all that into a 10-15 minute appointment is difficult but you need to press them to do it so that you can ensure you are getting the right treatment for you. On the up side statins are shown by an Oxford uni study in 2015 to have a positive impact on women.
On the subject of brain fog, I am 63, healthy other than diabetes, don't use any medication other than asthma inhaler, reasonably fit (resting pule of 45 bpm) and eat much healthier now than I have done for many years, I still forget why I went upstairs and spend my life trying to remember the names of people I met last week. So brain fog can often be a simple side effect of getting older. Mind you I am still in strong demand for my golf club quiz team 🙂
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Ah that’s interesting @Bruce Stephens
I have heard similar in a conference presentation which was looking into differences in diabetes complications risk between individuals with the same HbA1c result.
Hi Felina, Thank you for your reply, I was put on statins back in 2008, at the time i had been ill and i had blood work done and they discovered at the time that my cholesterol was high and because my father had died of a heart attack at 60 they said i would be best to take simvastatin as a precaution and should take them for life. I have been on these statins until a few weeks ago and they changed me to Arivostatin 40mg. I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes 3 years ago, i have never been on medication, im actually surprised as my last HB1Ac was 57
Thank you so much for your kind reply🙂 I have been worrying myself and not knowing what to do. you are right probably the brain fog and aches and pains may be a age thing. im 61 soon so its only natural as we age we wont have the same memory we once had
Leadinglights
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I would not expect that at 60 you should be experiencing brain fog and aching and hopefully by changing the statin that will help but if it does not then you could ask about a lower dose or yet another type. People do seem to tolerate some better than others. I have had no problem with atorvastatin 10mg whereas my other half had tried 2 different ones and suffered muscle weakness from both but as his cholesterol is not high is not taking any at the moment.
The 10mg dose is sufficient to keep my cholesterol at below 4 and good ratios despite quite a high fat but low carb diet.
The 10mg dose is sufficient to keep my cholesterol at below 4 and good ratios despite quite a high fat but low carb diet.
Thank you so much for your reply, the thing that worried me most was the brain fog and forgetfulness, statins lower your bad cholesterol but also your good, which in turn is not good for your memory. probably your low carb high fat diet is the way to go as our brains need a certain amount of fat.