DESMOND

[thejolley1]

Without wanting to sound like a moaner i went to the DESMOND course yesterday and found it incredibly unhelpful and quite demotivating.

Am i alone in thinking the NHS is just way too conservative in their advice? The LCHF diet has got me to where i am now, having lost lots of weight and getting off meds (HbA1C from 96 to 43) but i left feeling like id got it all wrong.

They were incredibly fats in food focussed and suggested that carbs will effect you short term but fat will effect you long term. The tone was so patronising too. Maybe it was too late for me to attend and i’ve just found the info elsewhere (including this fine forum) but it really didn’t spark people to make changes. It was like try and not eat fatty food and lower carbs a bit. Change from white to brown bread, make sure you take your pills that sort of stuff. Not motivating stuff.

I left having more questions than when i went and felt almost a little arrogant in the idea that these professionals had told me and the group i was with a lot of false info about diet. I was happy i went here later as i'd now be on a lower fat, mediocre carb diet wondering why nothing has helped.

The one thing that came to light was that my cholesterol was a bit high, not outrageous and i believe it was taken at diagnosis rather than alongside my last HBa1C. Am i right in thinking more and more research is suggesting fat is less to blame for the cholesterol issues?

What also startled me was the number of people in the room who just had been living with the condition but just didn’t look to have done any research. Not even aware of the risks of diabetes or the name of the medication they were on. In some respects it reassured me that i’m far from the worst in terms of management and knowledge, but its never nice to have success at the expense of others.

Perhaps the lowest point was when the instructor was trying to reconvene after an activity. People were still talking as they often do. She then proceeded to shout out “Chocolate biscuits”, then chuckled “that got your attention didn’t it?”. Maybe i’m a bit sensitive but a healthcare professional to my mind should not be saying that.

Anyway on the positive side i’ve started reading Gretchen Becker’s book which has been a fantastic read so far, truly recommend it to anybody that hasn't read it.

Did anyone else have this stumble of “am i doing the right thing?” early on.

Sorry if that feels like a splurge of my own thoughts but i guess the takeaway is its quite scary that the people you put complete faith are a bit behind the times in their approach and thinking.

Penny for your thoughts….

 

[Ralph-YK]

My Desmonds was OK as a bit of a intro. Certainly nothing to do with how we might manage diabetes.

really didn’t spark people to make changes.

Same here. My experience of diabetes care generally has the opposite effect. It's quite demotivating.

[Edited, cause I wasn't awake when I posted (up half the night with tooth ache )]

 

[stephknits]

I think your experience resonates with lots of people on here. I guess people who find a forum are proactive in their approach. I went on it (I was wrongly diagnosed as Type 2) and agree, the emphasis on fats and lack of info on carbs was a surprise for me. What really depressed me, was that whilst the people on the course were largely as you described, for every 1 of them, there are probably 10 more who don't even access the course and so are even less interested.
I guess diabetes, unlike lots of medical conditions is down to patient management and this requires a fundamental mindshift in the way we access medical services. Normally, we go to the GP, hopefully get a diagnosis and then a treatment for it, which is largely decided by the GP - we rely on their expertise to get it right for us. With diabetes, we learn to become the experts on our own particular diabetes and therefore the balance shifts. I think this mindshift is often inconceivable to people and is never addressed.
I agree, the book you mentioned is fantastic.

 

[Mark Parrott]

Thankfully, I never bothered attending a DESMOND course. Ignore everything you were told & carry on they way you were.

 

[trophywench]

It damnwell ANNOYS me - ever since they invented it - it's mainly been crap. 20 years?

To be fair - on the odd occasion some have said their 'tutors' have been a bit more helpful - but not that often.

I'm pretty sick of hearing comments like yours by now - @Hannah DUK - is it possible DUK can bring influence to bear on whoever controls medical teaching in general and specifically 'teaching' of DESMOND ? - shouldn't be 'taught' anyway, should be 'dissemination and discussion of correct info' - surely?

The world of Prostate Cancer charities hold 'awareness' sessions for the public/patients - not 'teaching sessions'.

 

[kentish maid]

I went on a DEREK ( Diabetes Education Revision in East Kent) course before Christmas. I had been diagnosed a couple of months previously. I didn't find it particularly helpful, and found that the tutor was very pro statins for all diabetics, and plugged the low fat approach to diet. The diabetic nurse at the GP surgery was from the same school of thought.
Like Jenny I think 'teaching' diabetics how to cope with their diabetes is not the way to do it. Way back when my son was small I ran courses for parents of under 5's and playgroup supervisors. Although Adult Education Centres classified me as a tutor (and paid me accordingly) the social service teams I worked alongside classified me as a facilitator. That is the way forward for courses such as Desmond surely?

 

[thejolley1]

Thanks everyone. Its good (or i suppose bad in another way) to hear that i'm not alone in this thought of such courses.

I couldn't quite put my finger on why it was such a frustrating day. Perhaps it was because i tried so hard to be open minded about it but was predictably un-dynamic. I think the fact I was told things and then asked to repeat them back, made me feel like I was in primary school.

That said i think some people in the room will have benefitted just because the collective knowledge on what diabetes is and how it affects the body was quite low.

I think a facilitative approach is best and think to their credit they did try to do that but nothing was evidence based and there wasn't really a dialogue.

I asked two questions at the end:
1) Is there anything i can do about morning highs - Response was not really as you are on diet and exercise.
2) Should i continue to test now by BG in more in control - Response: Its up to you but you'd need to self fund.

I asked these two, not that i thought i'd get more insight but to see if they did have any knowledge of current thinking. Do they go on these sorts of forums to see the accounts from actual people with diabetes?

If nothing else, its made me realise how valuable this forum is, so to everyone who has taken the time to reply I do really appreciate it. It makes you feel so much less alone with this stuff!

 

[Bubbsie]

Without wanting to sound like a moaner i went to the DESMOND course yesterday and found it incredibly unhelpful and quite demotivating.

Am i alone in thinking the NHS is just way too conservative in their advice? The LCHF diet has got me to where i am now, having lost lots of weight and getting off meds (HbA1C from 96 to 43) but i left feeling like id got it all wrong.

They were incredibly fats in food focussed and suggested that carbs will effect you short term but fat will effect you long term. The tone was so patronising too. Maybe it was too late for me to attend and i’ve just found the info elsewhere (including this fine forum) but it really didn’t spark people to make changes. It was like try and not eat fatty food and lower carbs a bit. Change from white to brown bread, make sure you take your pills that sort of stuff. Not motivating stuff.

I left having more questions than when i went and felt almost a little arrogant in the idea that these professionals had told me and the group i was with a lot of false info about diet. I was happy i went here later as i'd now be on a lower fat, mediocre carb diet wondering why nothing has helped.

The one thing that came to light was that my cholesterol was a bit high, not outrageous and i believe it was taken at diagnosis rather than alongside my last HBa1C. Am i right in thinking more and more research is suggesting fat is less to blame for the cholesterol issues?

What also startled me was the number of people in the room who just had been living with the condition but just didn’t look to have done any research. Not even aware of the risks of diabetes or the name of the medication they were on. In some respects it reassured me that i’m far from the worst in terms of management and knowledge, but its never nice to have success at the expense of others.

Perhaps the lowest point was when the instructor was trying to reconvene after an activity. People were still talking as they often do. She then proceeded to shout out “Chocolate biscuits”, then chuckled “that got your attention didn’t it?”. Maybe i’m a bit sensitive but a healthcare professional to my mind should not be saying that.

Anyway on the positive side i’ve started reading Gretchen Becker’s book which has been a fantastic read so far, truly recommend it to anybody that hasn't read it.

Did anyone else have this stumble of “am i doing the right thing?” early on.

Sorry if that feels like a splurge of my own thoughts but i guess the takeaway is its quite scary that the people you put complete faith are a bit behind the times in their approach and thinking.

Penny for your thoughts….

The DESMOND course for me was the most useless... archaic... outdated... unimaginative & patronising course I have ever attended...the NHS could save an absolute fortune dispensing with it & recommending Gretchen Becker's book.

 

[thejolley1]

The DESMOND course for me was the most useless... archaic... outdated... unimaginative & patronising course I have ever attended...the NHS could save an absolute fortune dispensing with it & recommending Gretchen Becker's book.

You've pretty much summed up thoughts in a concise single sentence. Agree on Gretchen's book too, certainly the most accessible and relatable take on diabetes diagnosis so far. I actually laughed out loud at the part about the diabetes cure fantasies and imagining the newspaper headline "Its a miracle, doctors are baffled as to why but this person is cured".

I had a dream a few weeks into my diagnosis about been in a bar and BBC Breaking news of diabetes being cured and everybody in the bar cheering.

Come to think of it i've no idea why the entire bar was cheering 🙂

 

[trophywench]

Dreams very often aren't remotely logical so that's no surprise! LOL

 

[JMyrtle]

Saw new nurse today, still waiting for my course but she said there was no point in my going now.
I told her I had gone against advice and got a meter and showed her the excel spreadsheet I had been completing.
She asked me what I had been doing to get my levels down so I said low carb/ high fat and waited for the reaction but she said that's fine, whatever works for you but don't cut the carbs out completely.

 

[mikeyB]

I went on a DEREK ( Diabetes Education Revision in East Kent) course before Christmas. I had been diagnosed a couple of months previously. I didn't find it particularly helpful, and found that the tutor was very pro statins for all diabetics, and plugged the low fat approach to diet. The diabetic nurse at the GP surgery was from the same school of thought.
Like Jenny I think 'teaching' diabetics how to cope with their diabetes is not the way to do it. Way back when my son was small I ran courses for parents of under 5's and playgroup supervisors. Although Adult Education Centres classified me as a tutor (and paid me accordingly) the social service teams I worked alongside classified me as a facilitator. That is the way forward for courses such as Desmond surely?

I don’t know why these folk are recommending statins for all diabetics. That’s just so outdated advice. As is the low fat diet. All this advice is dribbling over from the US, where full blown metabolic syndrome is common - obesity, hypertension, abnormal cholesterol and trigs, and diabetes. The advice is different over here, though I suspect it won’t be much different when these obese kids grow up, but if they can get proper advice now it may not happen.

 

[Bubbsie]

Interestingly enough DUK now advocate the low carb approach according to their latest reports...however... do not support combining that with full fat/good fats yet...preferring to recommend a low carb/low fat diet...certainly an interesting perspective?

 

[Vince_UK]

Moving slowly into the 21st century I see but still way off the mark and not listening to members own experiences. Hi-Di-Hi Goes way against most other peoples thinking.

 

[Martin9]

Have been referred for a Desmond course in the next 2-3 months, I'm doubting if it's worth it now after reading this thread, sounds like it's not really worth it..

 

[Bubbsie]

Have been referred for a Desmond course in the next 2-3 months, I'm doubting if it's worth it now after reading this thread, sounds like it's not really worth it..

Martin you have to make your own mind up about whether you attend the course...the one I went to did nothing for me...however that could have been the facilitators...now you are informed about the low carb good fat diet...know quite a bit about managing your diabetes & the value of testing your blood sugars...you could attend & compare your own experience with their stance/advice on how best to control your diabetes...might be worth it?

 

[Martin9]

Martin you have to make your own mind up about whether you attend the course...the one I went to did nothing for me...however that could have been the facilitators...now you are informed about the low carb good fat diet...know quite a bit about managing your diabetes & the value of testing your blood sugars...you could attend & compare your own experience with their stance/advice on how best to control your diabetes...might be worth it?

Thanks@Bubbsie, will make up my mind nearer the time, as an aside to this was in my local Tesco and as I was walking out stopped at the charity books table and there laid a nearly new copy of 'The Obesity Code' by Jason Fung one of the main exponents of LCHF diets for Type 2. What a bargain for £1

 

[Bubbsie]

Thanks@Bubbsie, will make up my mind nearer the time, as an aside to this was in my local Tesco and as I was walking out stopped at the charity books table and there laid a nearly new copy of 'The Obesity Code' by Jason Fung one of the main exponents of LCHF diets for Type 2. What a bargain for £1

What a find Martin...I like Jason Fung...LCHF he also advocates intermittent fasting.

 

[Martin9]

What a find Martin...I like Jason Fung...LCHF he also advocates intermittent fasting.

You ever tried fasting and for how long..?

 

[CathyB]

My experience was pretty much the same, thankfully I had read loads of the threads here and already decided on the cutting the carbs as much as possible and my numbers were coming down nicely, I was tracking my progress with a food diary with my daily reading and it was clear where things weren’t working so well. I’m glad I did DESMOND as it taught me to accept my health care team didn’t really understand and that my main source of support and information would be here 😉 Whatever the dr or nurse might think, my progress speaks for itself and I feel better than I have for at least a year 😛