Controversial opinion - dieting is just about self control.

[Edwin Wine]

I have been reading a large number 9f the threads on here and elsewhere regarding dietary control. I am T2 and it took me a while to come to terms with some simple processes for dietary control.

Firstly if you make your dietary control overly complicated it will break down as a discipline. Complex measurements or high food variety makes it very difficult to maintain. I have accepted a simplification in my 'food lifestyle' as a consequence. Trying to introduce variety to keep a specific diet interesting makes it more difficult to maintain IMHO. I eat exactly the same breakfast every day for example.

Secondly self discipline is crucial. If you have a disease which may kill you prematurely or in some way mess with your life quality then ...
. I had to get real about recognising this. This discipline also applies to excercise.

Thirdly I personally don't believe in extreme diets. High Fat or low carb or keto or water or whatever. I simply eat a balanced diet just not a lot of it. I only have 2 rules

I do not snack between meals

I do not eat any whitecarbs after lunch.

Fourthly do your own research from a variety of sources. Only peer reviewed scientific papers can really be regarded as reliable. Anything you use should be based on this type of material.

Work out what works for you, keep it simple and stick to it. It's self discipline that really works.

 

[silentsquirrel]

Agree with "what works for you" - white carbs before lunch would be a total disaster for me and for many others!

For me carbs above a small amount are addictive, and my self control would be non-existent on a "balanced diet". Lower carb higher fat works very well for me, and my self control is achieved when I stick to that.

 

[rebrascora]

I'm with @silentsquirrel It is easier for me to eat low carb high fat as I don't feel hungry and rarely have cravings and only need a small amount of food.
Once I eat more carbs, even brown/wholemeal/wholegrain/oats etc, I start getting the cravings and it makes it so much more difficult to stick to. Eating a high fat diet I feel fitter and healthier than I have for 30 years. Weight is stable at a normal BMI and I can look a chocolate bar or biscuit or even a plate of chips in the eye and not want it.

 

[Inka]

Work out what works for you, keep it simple and stick to it. It's self discipline that really works.

I agree with that. I also agree keeping to the same breakfast (or a choice of two or three) or whatever helps a lot. It removes too much thought for at least one meal and makes planning less of a slog.

I also agree that extreme or fad diets are a bad idea.

 

[Docb]

Can't argue with anything you said @Edwin Wine 😎

 

[nonethewiser]

Edwin, well said Sir, so true.

 

[Drummer]

Do you have normal blood sugars and Hba1c levels?
If you do, then the diet is working for you - it would not work for me to be eating carbs, of any colour and at any time of day if they exceeded the amount I can cope with.

 

[Edwin Wine]

Sure whatever works for you. My main points were really about self discipline and finding a simple solution

 

[Drummer]

'Self discipline' is a bit of a trigger for me - I have had negative comments about my failure to lose weight on magic diet sheets printed out in GP surgeries for about the last half century.
I have been called a liar, delusional, a glutton, I have been told that I gorge on the wrong foods, that my increasing weight is what I deserve for eating too much.
My simple solution is not eating carbs in the amounts considered normal.

 

[rebrascora]

The simple solution for me is to avoid carbs as much as possible... and that makes the self discipline easier.
Many people suffer from eating disorders and It is all very well to say have self discipline but when your body and mind are craving comfort food, knowing what we should do and actually doing it are two very different things.

 

[trophywench]

I'm much with @Drummer here - never in my life have I required as many grams of carb a day as the NHS has ever said is normal. I literally do not know how quite a lot of my own family get through the huge plates of food they are happy to consume. I had grave difficulty eating my lunchtime sandwich today even though about an inch of the filling was shredded lettuce!

 

[Ditto]

This is a most interesting thread. 🙂 I agree with everybody!

 

[Eddy Edson]

Me too!

In the sense that this kind of approach works for me.

But I don't think it works for everybody, or even for most people.

It's not just a matter of "discipline", or better - the amount of "discipline" needed varies a lot between different people. People's bodies/brains fight against weight loss, some a lot more than others. I'm lucky: my body/brain combo is a weight-loss-resistance wimp.

Kevin Hall, lead obesity researcher with the US National Institutes of Health, has really excellent work in this area. This is his highest-profile thing: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html

 

[Edwin Wine]

Interesting research. It shows some people appear to have changes which when they lose weight require a much greater determination to maintain a lower weight. It seems this came out of studies of people who were morbidly obese which is not everyone. It also so seems to suggest keeping weight off is harder for some as their metabolic rate is depressed. It doesn't mean discipline isn't required in greater quantities.

 

[Eddy Edson]

Interesting research. It shows some people appear to have changes which when they lose weight require a much greater determination to maintain a lower weight. It seems this came out of studies of people who were morbidly obese which is not everyone. It also so seems to suggest keeping weight off is harder for some as their metabolic rate is depressed. It doesn't mean discipline isn't required in greater quantities.

This is one of his major papers looking at the issues: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5568065/

It's well worth a look. There are incompletely-understood changes in both energy expenditure and also appetite mechanisms which can conspire to frustrate efforts to maintain weight loss "by willpower alone":

Unfortunately, we do not yet know the quantitative effects of non-homeostatic influences on the set point model, but there is likely to be a wide degree of individual variation. Some people may experience substantial changes in the energy intake, along with correspondingly large weight changes, whereas others will be more resistant. Re-engineering the social and food environments may facilitate shifts in the energy intake line, but losing weight and keeping it off using willpower alone to reduce energy intake is difficult because considerable effort is required to persistently resist the physiological adaptations that act to increase appetite and suppress energy expenditure.

 

[Edwin Wine]

Quote

In other words, for all practical purposes “a calorie is a calorie” when it comes to body fat and energy expenditure differences between controlled isocaloric diets varying in the ratio of carbohydrate to fat.


Good article. My conclusions are

1. It's likely some people need an increased effort of will to keep weight off once they have lost it
2. Some people will have to stabilise calorie intake at a lower level than others due to metabolic drivers to increas consumption
3. As per the quote above there is no getting away from the challenge that it's all about the calories you consume and burn. Some people may have a combination of resting plus excercise metabolisms which mean a lower calorie intake is required long term.
4. Micronutrients seem to have some impact.
5. It's complex and everyone is different so you have to work out what works for you.

Thanks it's very informative.

 

[Eddy Edson]

This is one of his major papers looking at the issues: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5568065/

It's well worth a look. There are incompletely-understood changes in both energy expenditure and also appetite mechanisms which can conspire to frustrate efforts to maintain weight loss "by willpower alone":

Unfortunately, we do not yet know the quantitative effects of non-homeostatic influences on the set point model, but there is likely to be a wide degree of individual variation. Some people may experience substantial changes in the energy intake, along with correspondingly large weight changes, whereas others will be more resistant. Re-engineering the social and food environments may facilitate shifts in the energy intake line, but losing weight and keeping it off using willpower alone to reduce energy intake is difficult because considerable effort is required to persistently resist the physiological adaptations that act to increase appetite and suppress energy expenditure.

And this one, specifically on the appetite response: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27804272/

As you lose weight, you burn fewer calories while resting but your appetite increases to induce you to eat more than 3X the calorie difference. On average - there's wide individual variability. I'm lucky - the effect seems to be much less than the average for me.

Results: It was discovered that weight loss leads to a proportional increase in appetite resulting in eating above baseline by ∼100 kcal/day per kilogram of lost weight-an amount more than threefold larger than the corresponding energy expenditure adaptations.

Conclusions: While energy expenditure adaptations have often been considered the main reason for slowing of weight loss and subsequent regain, feedback control of energy intake plays an even larger role and helps explain why long-term maintenance of a reduced body weight is so difficult.

 

[Edwin Wine]

Exactly. Which goes back to my core point. It's all about willpower and it becomes more challenging the more successful.you are at losing weight.

 

[grovesy]

Well some struggle as they have other issues with health conditions.

 

[Robin]

You’re right, it is controversial to say it’s all about self control of willpower. I spent most of my late teens struggling to lose weight, because I’d feel positive, do fine for a couple of weeks, then get such cravings that I couldn’t stop myself eating junk, (especially chocolate). I felt a complete failure, I despised myself for having no willpower or self control, and I just ended up eating and gaining more weight. I was about 2 stone overweight by the time I went to Uni and hated myself. Fast forward a few years, I'd lost a stone at Uni just through being busier, and happier, but I still needed to lose that other stone. Then I read an article about hormonal changes connected with the monthly cycle, and realised that every time I'd failed and binge eaten, it had been my premenstrual week. I then worked out a successful diet strategy, which involved dieting for three weeks out of every month and exercising 'damage limitation' during the fourth, and lost the other stone I needed to.