Confused

[Martyn1966]

Hi,
I’m new to this and have just recently been diagnosed with Type 2.
My reading was 51mmol/mol
I’ve bought a monitoring machine and that reads 6.9 after an 8 hour fast.can someone please explain this to me as the Doctor just explained diet and fitness. Also, can the reading be reduced or am I stuck with it?
cheers

 

[Docb]

can someone please explain this to me

Real answer is no to that one! One off blood glucose measurements do not actually tell you much except in your case, the one you have is in a range that most would consider normal. The reason is that your spot reading of blood glucose will go up and down depending on loads of factors and only begin to make any sort of sense when you collect a decent number of them in a systematic fashion.

Most start out by collecting a waking and a last thing at night reading and some readings during the day based around meal times, say before a meal and somewhere between one and two hours after a meal. You will then be able to get a feel for your basic levels and the effect of what you eat on those levels. From that you can adjust what you eat to get rid of things that give you big increases in BG, the infamous spikes. You can see what your averages are and yes you can make changes and see what effect they have and focus on those things which bring your levels down.

 

[ianf0ster]

Hi,
I’m new to this and have just recently been diagnosed with Type 2.
My reading was 51mmol/mol
I’ve bought a monitoring machine and that reads 6.9 after an 8 hour fast.can someone please explain this to me as the Doctor just explained diet and fitness. Also, can the reading be reduced or am I stuck with it?
cheers

Hi Martyn,
Good for you for buying a Blood Glucose meter. Without one you are like a driver without a speedometer.
The 51 number is from a blood test called an HbA1C which sort of gives an average amount of glucose (sugar) in your blood (Haemoglobin) over the life of your red blood cells (2 to 3 months). 51 is relatively Low in the diabetic range.

The Fasting BG reading from your meter is the least important number for a Type 2 ( though 6.9 is a decent enough number) as well usually being the last one you might se progress on. This is due to a thing called the Dawn Phenomenon which is where your Liver puts more Glucose into your bloodstream so that after fasting all night you have enough energy to go out and kill a woolly mammoth. Our livers don't know about supermarkets and fridges.

The most important readings are just prior to each meal and then again 2hrs after the first bite. Though if you know you are eating some high Glycemic Index sugars or starches, then 1hr after is also a good idea.
The aim is (if possible) to adjust your food (portions size and content) so as to keep all the readings below 8.0 ( 7.8 for purists) and to keep the spike between prior and post the meal to less than 2.0

I hope this helps.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Hello @Martyn1966

Welcome to the forum!

Sorry to hear about your diagnosis, and that you;ve been left feeling a little 'low on details' by your GP.

Lots of experienced T2s here for you to share experiences with, and things will begin to make sense in no time. Diabetes is very individual and it's all about working out exactly what works well for *you* within a number of general 'rules of thumb'.

Many members have found Maggie Davey's letter quite a good background into self-managing T2
https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/maggie-daveys-letter-to-newly-diagnosed-type-2s.61307/

And AlanS's 'test review adjust' is a helpful ingtroduction to systematic BG monitoring and adjusting your diet to improve BG outcomes.
https://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/test-review-adjust.html

Keep us posted and let us know how you are getting on.

 

[Martyn1966]

Wow! Thanks so much for feedback! I’ve learnt more in the last hour than I have in the last week. thanks again.

 

[ianf0ster]

Hello @Martyn1966

Welcome to the forum!

Sorry to hear about your diagnosis, and that you;ve been left feeling a little 'low on details' by your GP.

Lots of experienced T2s here for you to share experiences with, and things will begin to make sense in no time. Diabetes is very individual and it's all about working out exactly what works well for *you* within a number of general 'rules of thumb'.

Many members have found Maggie Davey's letter quite a good background into self-managing T2
https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/maggie-daveys-letter-to-newly-diagnosed-type-2s.61307/

And AlanS's 'test review adjust' is a helpful ingtroduction to systematic BG monitoring and adjusting your diet to improve BG outcomes.
https://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/10/test-review-adjust.html

Keep us posted and let us know how you are getting on.

These links are very good considering when they were written. But times have moved on since then.

The only niggle I have about these, probably due to when it was written, is that they still demonise Fat (especially saturated fat).
It has been shown that it is in fact Carbs that make you fat (via Insulin) and thus also cause the perpetual inflammation in the blood vessels which causes the clogging when the LDL comes along to do its repair job.
OK I admit that the statin industry isn't on-board with this.
A LCHF way of eating lowers the insulin levels in your blood, reduces hunger (processed carbs bypass the satiety hormone), allows you to 'burn off' your body fat' which ultimately (but only once past the weight loss phase) raises your HDL and reduces your Triglycerides and often also your LDL.

I know this part is a hard sell, but for me as somebody having has a 3x coronary bypass, the evidence is convincing.


Thus the linked articles make Low Carb both harder and less effective because they mention using single cream (rather than double), Lean skinless chicken, instead of fatty Beef, Lamb and Pork .
And don't mention eating lovely hard cheeses, full-fat Greek style yogurt etc.​

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

These links are very good considering when they were written. But times have moved on since then.

The only niggle I have about these, probably due to when it was written, is that they still demonise Fat (especially saturated fat).
It has been shown that it is in fact Carbs that make you fat (via Insulin) and thus also cause the perpetual inflammation in the blood vessels which causes the clogging when the LDL comes along to do its repair job.
OK I admit that the statin industry isn't on-board with this.
A LCHF way of eating lowers the insulin levels in your blood, reduces hunger (processed carbs bypass the satiety hormone), allows you to 'burn off' your body fat' which ultimately (but only once past the weight loss phase) raises your HDL and reduces your Triglycerides and often also your LDL.

I know this part is a hard sell, but for me as somebody having has a 3x coronary bypass, the evidence is convincing.


Thus the linked articles make Low Carb both harder and less effective because they mention using single cream (rather than double), Lean skinless chicken, instead of fatty Beef, Lamb and Pork .
And don't mention eating lovely hard cheeses, full-fat Greek style yogurt etc.​

Really pleased that you’ve found a management strategy that works for you @ianf0ster - but it’s important to acknowledge on our forum that diabetes isn’t a one-size-fits-all condition. And different people are completely free to try and evaluate a variety of strategies (and scale of levels of intensity of those strategies) to find a system that suits them as an individual. Not everyone wants to aim for ketosis 🙂

In my opinion the evidence around saturated fat is mixed enough to support LCHF as an option for some people, but it’s important that we also acknowledge that there is evidence that high levels of fat can be detrimental to some people too.

Anecdotally, and also in published trials it is also clear that LCHF simply doesn’t ‘work’ for some people. And in some populations where LCHF and low calorie are examined there is little difference between the outcomes.

Also, where people are seeking weight loss, adding large quantities of nutrient dense fat can slow weight loss.

Short version: we prefer to encourage people to be open to all strategies of self management and to allow them (often with the help of their BG meter) to find a way of eating that suits their lifestyle, their tastes *and* their BG 🙂

 

[ianf0ster]

Really pleased that you’ve found a management strategy that works for you @ianf0ster - but it’s important to acknowledge on our forum that diabetes isn’t a one-size-fits-all condition. And different people are completely free to try and evaluate a variety of strategies (and scale of levels of intensity of those strategies) to find a system that suits them as an individual. Not everyone wants to aim for ketosis 🙂

In my opinion the evidence around saturated fat is mixed enough to support LCHF as an option for some people, but it’s important that we also acknowledge that there is evidence that high levels of fat can be detrimental to some people too.

Anecdotally, and also in published trials it is also clear that LCHF simply doesn’t ‘work’ for some people. And in some populations where LCHF and low calorie are examined there is little difference between the outcomes.

Also, where people are seeking weight loss, adding large quantities of nutrient dense fat can slow weight loss.

Short version: we prefer to encourage people to be open to all strategies of self management and to allow them (often with the help of their BG meter) to find a way of eating that suits their lifestyle, their tastes *and* their BG 🙂

I agree that each person needs to find something that works well for them..
When newly diagnosed T2's ask about what they should, I usually mention all 4 proven methods. Just that apart from Vegans and non-lacto vegetarians the various forms of Low Carb fit well with most people and have some of the best proven results - 50% complete remission i.e. non-diabetic ( not pre-diabetic) HbA1C levels on absolutely no Diabetes medications at the 2yr stage for Dr David |Unwin's patients prepared to try Low Carb at his Stockport GP practice.
The other methods are:-
Intermittent or longer fasting - but obviously a TOFI like me can't do a 3 week fast!
Severely calorie restricted diets - you often stay very hungry for 8 weeks! And then can't maintain the weight loss.
Gastric Surgery - very good results in the short term, but not so good after 5yrs.

 

[rebrascora]

I think it is important to give people all the options and since the "official line" seems mostly still to be to follow a low fat, moderate wholemeal carbs diet, I think it is quite important that new members are made aware of the Low Carb, High Fat option and let them make up their own mind.

I am certainly very obliged to @Drummer for opening my mind to researching this way of eating. It does take quite a leap of faith to go against the health advice of the past 50+ years which brainwashed us into believing fat is bad, but I definitely feel it has been beneficial to me and makes my low carb eating sustainable and my weight stable and I don't suffer from the hunger or cravings which I have personally battled for the past 30+years. I just wish I had discovered this way of eating before diagnosis as I feel it may well have prevented my diabetes occurring in the first place.
I think it is important to find a healthy balance so that plenty of low carb veg are incorporated into the LCHF diet rather than just eat meat and fish and full fat dairy etc and maybe this is where some of the studies broke down.
I know historic studies were sometimes conducted in prisons and mental asylums where a captive study group had no choice but to follow the prescribed diet. In this day and age of course, it is against human rights to do that, so individuals in a study may "cheat" or "bend the parameters of a prescribed diet" to their individual tastes and conclusions drawn from such studies are not always accurate as a result.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I just wish I had discovered this way of eating before diagnosis as I feel it may well have prevented my diabetes occurring in the first place.

Don’t fall into the trap of feeling that your diagnosis was self inflicted Barbara. With a confirmed T1 diagnosis, it was your immune system that caused your diabetes, and nothing you ate or didn’t eat made any difference.

The more I read, the more pivotal the genetic component appears to be in terms of weight gain/appetite and also propensity to develop T2 too - something like 50-70% of the puzzle it seems.

So yes, *some* people at risk can take preventative action the delay or prevent their T2, but not all T2 seems preventable, and T1 isn’t - it lurks in the genes and emerges when it feels like it (I saw a fascinating presentation last month during a ‘lab tour’ at a local research hospital arranged by DUK by someone currently researching the onset of T1 and how to predict it)

 

[rebrascora]

I appreciate your supportive comment but there is only one person who truly knows how much I was abusing my body with sugar.... and starchy carbs .... and I consider myself lucky that Diabetes was the outcome and not something like Cancer (which might still be on the cards of course).

I saw a scientific presentation video on this forum yesterday which amongst a lot of other info suggested a mechanism by which high levels of sugar in the gut can trigger Type 1 ..... unless I misunderstood it. I appreciate that it is an autoimmune response but something has to trigger that and the info in the video seemed plausible to me... as a lay person with a little scientific knowledge and a logical mind. I will see if I can find the relevant video and the time point at which it is mentioned. Yes I had an uncle with Type 1 but he was the only relative out of a very large family.

 

[rebrascora]

Here it is

At 37.50 minutes there is talk about Zonulin and "leaky gut" leading to autoimmune diseases including Type 1 Diabetes

 

[Martyn1966]

Hi,

just an update from my original post. Two weeks since my diagnosis. I’ve been on a strict diet and lost a stone in weight. Swam 10 miles, walked 30 miles and been in the gym most days.killing me!
My second blood test came down from 51 to 49!
The Doctor now wants me to see a vascular nurse??
Thanks to everyone who commented!
Cheers!
Martyn

 

[rebrascora]

Hi and well done on your results.
That is a fantastic weight loss and impressive exercise regime and if that reduction in HbA1c is correct it should correlate to a significant drop over the next 10 weeks if you keep up the good work. The reason I say that is that HbA1c is a measurement of the amount of glucose molecules stuck to the Haemoglobin cells in the blood. Those cells die and are replaced every 2-3months so to get a decrease of 2 after just 2 weeks would indicate that you will see a more significant reduction when all of those cells have been replaced. I am however not sure how accurate those HbA1c readings are which is why I question how correct the reading is. There will always be a level of error in any test which might be 1-2% maybe more or less, so a reduction of 2 might be 2 or it might be nothing, if you know what I mean. You will know better in 10 weeks when all those original Haemoglobin cells have been replaced and the clean new ones are tested.
Did the Doc say why he wanted you to see the vascular nurse?

 

[Martyn1966]

No he didn’t not sure why? I understand there’s a link between heart disease and Type 2 but I would have thought that would be after the next 10weeks test?
All very confusing.

Thanks

Martyn

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Great progress so far Martyn! Keep it up 🙂