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SophieP

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Hi everyone.

I have had occasional hypos since 2017, usually going through phases where I'll have one a day for weeks and then nothing for a while - I wasn't given a diagnosis or reason why, the doctors didn't seem that interested.
I had a glucose tolerance test on Thursday and now I'm hyper. 7.6 fasting, and then 18 and 14 after 1 and 2 hours. I've done a few tests at home too and they've all been between 10 and 16.
What's going on? How can I go from 6/7 years of unexplained hypos to now being constantly hyper. Am I now diabetic?
I'm waiting for the endo consultant to call me, hopefully on Monday to discuss, but I can't stop thinking about it.

I was wondering if anyone had any similar experiences and what the outcome was?
TIA
 
Hi @SophieP and welcome to the forum. I'll ask the obvious question...what do you mean by hypo and do you have any blood glucose measurements taken at the time?
 
Hi and welcome.

I wonder if you have been suffering from Reactive Hypoglycaemia which is different to diabetes but can be a precursor to diabetes for some people.

As @Docb has asked, it would be useful to have more info about the hypos you have experienced in the past. How these incidents were identified as hypos and were health care professionals (possibly paramedics?) involved in any of these incidents?
 
Hi, thanks for the replies. My hypos were identified using blood glucose monitors, I never called an ambulance or anything I just ate/drank something sweet. Measurements around 3.0-3.2.
 
If you are not taking any medication to lower blood glucose levels and the low levels occur after eating some carbohydrates then asking about reactive hypoglycaemia during your consultation might be the way to get respite - we can't diagnose but many people report their symptoms on this forum.
 
Hi, thanks for the replies. My hypos were identified using blood glucose monitors, I never called an ambulance or anything I just ate/drank something sweet. Measurements around 3.0-3.2.
Please don't think I'm being pedantic: your lows were recorded around 3.0 to 3.2; but what symptoms were you experiencing to make you think you were low and thus take readings?

On my Dose Adjustment For Normal Eating (DAFNE) Course we were quite robustly told that true Hypo was at 3.5 and given that the accuracy of finger prick testing is only to within 15% and only 90% of all readings have to be within that tolerance of 15% .... your readings do seem on the low side, but are within the tolerance of a finger prick test result. Whatever symptoms you felt could be more telling, to your Endo in particular.

It is inevitable that the glucose test meters for home use are made to affordable retail prices to keep them widely available (and each competitive with the rest of the retail market). Once you work backwards from a retail price to wholesale price, then back to manufacturing and distribution costs it is easy to see this equipment was actually pretty low cost to produce. Thus the 15% tolerance is explicable and justifiable as a compromise between excellence and affordability. So one might think such an important piece of medical kit should have greater accuracy, but then we simply wouldn't have the current relatively wide availability!

If you had a series of readings that were nearer mid 2's or worse, the consequences might be seen as rather more serious and perhaps this is why rhe Drs didn't seem all that interested back in 2017. Anyway It's good that you will get an Endo Consult very soon and that alone suggests that this has now been taken a bit more seriously. Meanwhile wherever that takes you in improved understanding of your medical case history I would gently suggest don't dwell on this for the rest of this weekend. It might prove to be important, but not necessarily so.
 
Hi, thanks for the replies. My hypos were identified using blood glucose monitors, I never called an ambulance or anything I just ate/drank something sweet. Measurements around 3.0-3.2.

As @Proud to be erratic says, not too far from acceptable for someone not on glucose-lowering meds. Sometimes as someone’s blood sugar control gets worse, their body releases insulin in response to food but releases it too late when the blood sugar has gone a bit high. It also often overcompensates and releases too much insulin, thus causing blood sugar to go to the lower end of normal, possibly inducing some hypo symptoms because of the sudden drop @SophieP
 
Hi again and thanks for the replies. I haven't had the hypos for a while but the main symptoms include feeling shaky, sweaty, panicky, and weirdly, getting an ache in my armpits! Now though, I have been high every time I've tested since my GTT. I don't get why I've swung from having unexplained low blood sugar to it now being high every time. Still waiting for a call from the consultant, so have no answers from them yet.
 
@SophieP - I'm getting more than a bit confused by what you've told us so far.

You had all of the hypos in different places that all happened to have glucometers to hand at the times? Or not, but already had one and in-date test strips? You refer to a GTT - why did you have had a GTT in this day and age? Or do they still use it when the patient is pregnant and eg got hyperemesis gravidarum - I know they did when a granddaughter was expecting her first but that was 6+ years ago now. And - sorry! - what consultant is this - do you have other endocrinology conditions?

I sound like I'm cross examining you and I don't wish to sound like that, but if you wish me to understand what might be happening properly, I just need further and better info, please.
 
@SophieP - I'm getting more than a bit confused by what you've told us so far.

You had all of the hypos in different places that all happened to have glucometers to hand at the times? Or not, but already had one and in-date test strips? You refer to a GTT - why did you have had a GTT in this day and age? Or do they still use it when the patient is pregnant and eg got hyperemesis gravidarum - I know they did when a granddaughter was expecting her first but that was 6+ years ago now. And - sorry! - what consultant is this - do you have other endocrinology conditions?

I sound like I'm cross examining you and I don't wish to sound like that, but if you wish me to understand what might be happening properly, I just need further and better info, please.
Hi, I'm not sure what's so confusing? I have my own monitors, I have had several of the Palmdoc monitors that doctors provide that come with 10 test strips (yes, in date).

I had a GTT because that's what the endo doctor at hospital referred me for, probably because I mentioned my hypos at a recent appointment. I was at an endo appointment because I have recently diagnosed polycystic ovaries and also having other things investigated, hence why they booked me in for a GTT.

Anyway, the consultant finally called me back today and confirmed type 2 diabetes. I'm devastated.
 
Hi, I'm not sure what's so confusing? I have my own monitors, I have had several of the Palmdoc monitors that doctors provide that come with 10 test strips (yes, in date).

I had a GTT because that's what the endo doctor at hospital referred me for, probably because I mentioned my hypos at a recent appointment. I was at an endo appointment because I have recently diagnosed polycystic ovaries and also having other things investigated, hence why they booked me in for a GTT.

Anyway, the consultant finally called me back today and confirmed type 2 diabetes. I'm devastated.
Are you outside the UK? Doctors in the UK don’t give out meter before you have diabetes, and they certainly don’t give the same person multiple meters before having diabetes. They rarely give them out after having a diagnosis of T2 let alone before.
 
Sorry to hear that @SophieP At least you know what you’re dealing with now. It makes sense to me that they did a GTT. Those can spot spikes and sudden drops like you described. As I said above, sometimes people do have those drops due to the growing failure of the insulin release system prior to a diabetes diagnosis.

Have you been given any meds for the diabetes?
 
Sorry to hear that @SophieP At least you know what you’re dealing with now. It makes sense to me that they did a GTT. Those can spot spikes and sudden drops like you described. As I said above, sometimes people do have those drops due to the growing failure of the insulin release system prior to a diabetes diagnosis.

Have you been given any meds for the diabetes?
Thank you. He said he'll be writing to my GP and then I'll be put on Metformin. I also have to attend some learning thing but I haven't got anymore info about that yet.
 
Are you outside the UK? Doctors in the UK don’t give out meter before you have diabetes, and they certainly don’t give the same person multiple meters before having diabetes. They rarely give them out after having a diagnosis of T2 let alone before.
I'm in the UK, hence why I've accessed Diabetes UK. You say they don't give out the monitors but they have given them to me on several occasions because they wanted me to record my low sugar episodes.
 
I'm in the UK, hence why I've accessed Diabetes UK. You say they don't give out the monitors but they have given them to me on several occasions because they wanted me to record my low sugar episodes.
Hi @ SophieP, it's probably fair to say you have had an enlightened and helpful experience with a GP (or a Nurse from the Surgery) providing you with a Glucose meter and strips. This makes total sense to me, as someone who has no medical qualifications, such that for a Health Care Professional (HCP) to further investigate symptoms by providing home testing kit that could better inform the diagnosis - makes complete sense. At risk of sounding a bit churlish about this enlightened help to you and themselves, I think they would have done even better to provide you with a Continuous Glucose Meter (CGM) such as Libre 2 for a fortnight (one sensor) and used the data from that to see what your BG was doing every 5 mins during those 14 days; that could (would) have been extremely cost effective and I suspect way, way more informative. Even back in 2017 that would have been possible, but probably too enlightened. Meanwhile .... we are where we are.

In general the Guidance Note from the National Institute of Clinical Excellence (NICE) basically severely plays down allowing GPs to provide this sort of home testing for T2 patients. Also the relatively new Integrated Care Boards (ICBs) [which replaced the former Cost Centre Groups (CCGs)] can impose quite tight financial accountability on the funds allocated to GPs for prescriptions. So there are many T2 patients who don't get home BG testing kit; many on this forum self-fund their own, no doubt because they have read here that there can be great merit in some structured self-testing. Personally I think this NICE Guidance is crazy, but it is how it is. I can understand there are cost implications and it all might generate wider involvement by patients leading to more questions and a further drain on GP Surgery time. It could even lead to someone in the NHS providing fuller guidance on the benefits and how to get that benefit, but ..... There is a current thread running about this aspect of BG testing and if you are interested you might find fuller discussion helpful.


The exceptions that NICE permits are diabetes patients on medications that could possibly cause a patient to go hypoglycaemic, since that is a potentially dangerous medical condition in itself. But otherwise hypoglycaemia is most unlikely for T2s not on such meds and so don't need to test. I can understand why @Lucyr raised her question.

All that said, and hopefulluy now parked, perhaps your next step could be to politely challenge why either your GP or that prospective Consultant doesn't prescribe one or even 2 x 14 day CGMs such as Libre 2 from which you and they can properly see what is going on. Libre 2 would, I think, be very appropriate for your circumstances, since:

Each sensor is a standalone package for 14 days; after 14 days the expired sensor is binned and a fresh sensor doesn't necessarily have to be started immediately. The Dexcom One CGM pack locks one into a 90 day duration for best cost effectiveness. This is fine for someone like me who needs that BG data continuously 24/7/365. But potentially wasteful as a short term investigation tool.​
The Libre 2 app allows a lot of extra data recording in its notes section, which Dex One can't do. So if you were wearing a Libre sensor and a high or low unusual experience occurred you could (even at a later time) jot down some useful information (attributed in the app to that particular date and time) such as what you were doing, symptoms experienced, recent foods or any other recent unusual thing that might help the detective work. That whole output from your CGM can be shared with whoever you authorise to access it.​
In short although this wasn't necessarily what Freestyle intended - this use of their sensor in isolation could be near invaluable.​
I hope you get some rapid further investigation and thus progress towards a diagnosis and remedy. Good luck.
 
@SophieP - 90%+ of people diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes in the UK never get to see a hospital endocrinologist. Your experience so far, is nothing whatever like that of most people. Those glucometers cost £15 apiece for you or I to buy plus £12 for a pot of 50 strips plus some more for lancets and yes I realise the NHS will have negotiated a discount - but you can see why they don't usually hand em out to all & sundry - plus of course with only a 10 min appointment available for most things they haven't got the time to explain properly in detail how/why to test and how to interpret those results and react to them as necessary. We had to be detectives here to try and find out more things about you which could explain why these, what we considered odd, things had happened to you.
And this is the very first time I've ever heard of Palmdoc - on this forum or elsewhere. They are not registered in UK anyway though a Peterborough address is shown on the Companies House website. No Officers, no Accounts etc. Just no information.
Anyway - your GP presumably will need to do more than one HBA1c blood test before officially diagnosing you with Type 2 diabetes, since the GTT test is no longer relied upon (or even called for) for this purpose.
 
Hi @ SophieP, it's probably fair to say you have had an enlightened and helpful experience with a GP (or a Nurse from the Surgery) providing you with a Glucose meter and strips. This makes total sense to me, as someone who has no medical qualifications, such that for a Health Care Professional (HCP) to further investigate symptoms by providing home testing kit that could better inform the diagnosis - makes complete sense. At risk of sounding a bit churlish about this enlightened help to you and themselves, I think they would have done even better to provide you with a Continuous Glucose Meter (CGM) such as Libre 2 for a fortnight (one sensor) and used the data from that to see what your BG was doing every 5 mins during those 14 days; that could (would) have been extremely cost effective and I suspect way, way more informative. Even back in 2017 that would have been possible, but probably too enlightened. Meanwhile .... we are where we are.

In general the Guidance Note from the National Institute of Clinical Excellence (NICE) basically severely plays down allowing GPs to provide this sort of home testing for T2 patients. Also the relatively new Integrated Care Boards (ICBs) [which replaced the former Cost Centre Groups (CCGs)] can impose quite tight financial accountability on the funds allocated to GPs for prescriptions. So there are many T2 patients who don't get home BG testing kit; many on this forum self-fund their own, no doubt because they have read here that there can be great merit in some structured self-testing. Personally I think this NICE Guidance is crazy, but it is how it is. I can understand there are cost implications and it all might generate wider involvement by patients leading to more questions and a further drain on GP Surgery time. It could even lead to someone in the NHS providing fuller guidance on the benefits and how to get that benefit, but ..... There is a current thread running about this aspect of BG testing and if you are interested you might find fuller discussion helpful.


The exceptions that NICE permits are diabetes patients on medications that could possibly cause a patient to go hypoglycaemic, since that is a potentially dangerous medical condition in itself. But otherwise hypoglycaemia is most unlikely for T2s not on such meds and so don't need to test. I can understand why @Lucyr raised her question.

All that said, and hopefulluy now parked, perhaps your next step could be to politely challenge why either your GP or that prospective Consultant doesn't prescribe one or even 2 x 14 day CGMs such as Libre 2 from which you and they can properly see what is going on. Libre 2 would, I think, be very appropriate for your circumstances, since:

Each sensor is a standalone package for 14 days; after 14 days the expired sensor is binned and a fresh sensor doesn't necessarily have to be started immediately. The Dexcom One CGM pack locks one into a 90 day duration for best cost effectiveness. This is fine for someone like me who needs that BG data continuously 24/7/365. But potentially wasteful as a short term investigation tool.​
The Libre 2 app allows a lot of extra data recording in its notes section, which Dex One can't do. So if you were wearing a Libre sensor and a high or low unusual experience occurred you could (even at a later time) jot down some useful information (attributed in the app to that particular date and time) such as what you were doing, symptoms experienced, recent foods or any other recent unusual thing that might help the detective work. That whole output from your CGM can be shared with whoever you authorise to access it.​
In short although this wasn't necessarily what Freestyle intended - this use of their sensor in isolation could be near invaluable.​
I hope you get some rapid further investigation and thus progress towards a diagnosis and remedy. Good luck.
Because the Endo probably had the glucometers as freebies from their Rep!
 
I'm in the UK, hence why I've accessed Diabetes UK. You say they don't give out the monitors but they have given them to me on several occasions because they wanted me to record my low sugar episodes.
I think people are puzzled because the usual experience is to see GP for diagnosis and then a nurse at 3months, 6months and then annually, with an annual eye check for two years biannually after that if all is well - and a repeat prescription for a statin and Metformin. Other than that we are left to get on with it as best we can, unless things start to go very wrong.
 
I'm in the UK, hence why I've accessed Diabetes UK. You say they don't give out the monitors but they have given them to me on several occasions because they wanted me to record my low sugar episodes.

^^ I think this is the important bit above (bolded by me) and also probably the reason for the GTT. The doctor at this stage didn’t know @SophieP had impending Type 2. They were looking into the episodes of low sugar that Sophie told them about. That would entail a) proving her sugar was actually low; and b) getting some actual numbers for the sugars.

There are a number of (non-diabetic) medical conditions that can cause hypoglycaemia, eg an insulinoma, a problem with the adrenal glands, etc. So Sophie was given a meter to gain further information in case she had something serious wrong with her. The comparator isn’t people with Type 2, it’s people (who aren’t diabetic and not on glucose-lowering meds) complaining of unexplained episodes of hypoglycaemia.

Sophie’s experience makes total sense to me 🙂
 
@SophieP - 90%+ of people diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes in the UK never get to see a hospital endocrinologist. Your experience so far, is nothing whatever like that of most people. Those glucometers cost £15 apiece for you or I to buy plus £12 for a pot of 50 strips plus some more for lancets and yes I realise the NHS will have negotiated a discount - but you can see why they don't usually hand em out to all & sundry - plus of course with only a 10 min appointment available for most things they haven't got the time to explain properly in detail how/why to test and how to interpret those results and react to them as necessary. We had to be detectives here to try and find out more things about you which could explain why these, what we considered odd, things had happened to you.
And this is the very first time I've ever heard of Palmdoc - on this forum or elsewhere. They are not registered in UK anyway though a Peterborough address is shown on the Companies House website. No Officers, no Accounts etc. Just no information.
Anyway - your GP presumably will need to do more than one HBA1c blood test before officially diagnosing you with Type 2 diabetes, since the GTT test is no longer relied upon (or even called for) for this purpose.
You seem to be very non believing of my experience so far but if you read above you will see that I was referred to the endo due to polycystic ovaries mainly, not diabetes. I'm sorry that others don't get to see an endo doctor but I did and if you want to see my appointment letter as proof - just ask! I was at my first appointment for around 90 minutes where we discussed a lot of my symptoms, I seem to be a bit of a medical puzzle, so one of the things he asked me to do was a GTT, as well as other things like additional blood tests and 24hr urine collection.

I don't know why you'd feel the need to search Palmdoc, but again, if you want a photo next to today's headlines as proof - just ask!

Anyway, the doctor HAS already diagnosed me with type 2. I don't know how or why they've diagnosed me using GTT but I'm not a professional. My most recent hba1c was in Sept and was normal but they have asked me to have another one asap.
 
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