Cholesterol

[everydayupsanddowns]

You might like to try the Qrisk2 calculator ( perhaps Toby should too) which researchers seem to be using to calculate cvd risks ....it takes account of diabetes but not control ....if your score is over 20% on things like this then statins are recommended ....

http://qrisk.org/

Thanks for that link McD. Reassuringly small number respite my total Chol of 4.7 🙂

 

[Robster65]

I just want to know how many hunter gatherers make it to 80 as a proportion of their population?

I'd suggest their risk of being eaten by something toothy and large is greater than them having a heart attack and that those susceptable to heart disease will already have been weeded out by such creatures anyway.

So, to clear western societies of heart disease, I propose that we release all the lions and tigers and other such predators from every zoo/safari park into the countryside. 😉

Oh, by the way, I don't want to take statins either.

Forget the statins. Start running !! 😱

Rob

 

[Robster65]

7.7% as opposed to 4% for typical person.

qrisk age is 53.

SO I'm almost twice as likely as the average person my age to suffer from heart disease. But my uncle and my grandad on my dad's side had/have angina and my dad has a heart murmur (? leaky valve). but is physically fit and well otherwise.

As with all statistics, I could still drop dead tomorrow from heart failure.🙄

Rob

 

[Northerner]

I've got a heart murmur, I was told it was nothing to be concerned about 🙂

 

[mcdonagh47]

Thanks for that link McD. Reassuringly small number respite my total Chol of 4.7 🙂

Cos you're a young whipper snapper. Add 20 years to your age as an experiment and see what it says ?

 

[FM001]

You might like to try the Qrisk2 calculator ( perhaps Toby should too) which researchers seem to be using to calculate cvd risks ....it takes account of diabetes but not control ....if your score is over 20% on things like this then statins are recommended ....

http://qrisk.org/

Great link, scored 9% so not too bad🙂

Your consultant has a point but, seeing as you've no other risk factors on your list, could you not try to lower your reading with diet changes first? Or have you already done that?

I'm having the same debate with my consultant at the moment as my cholesterol was 4.7 at the last test with the LDL being around 0.3 above optimum. So far I've refused them and am trying to bring it down without the pills. I've more or less decided that if this doesn't work, then I'll reconsider but I don't want to take pills I don't need if I don't have to.

My diet is already healthy give or take the odd meal or two and I generally watch the fat content of my food. One sin I'm guilty of is using butter instead of a spread on toast, might try and adapt my taste buds and buy a decent spread and will also cut down on my egg consumption which can be up to a dozen some weeks.

 

[Robster65]

Still not sure about eggs. I think one or two a day are now considered to be good for you.

My consumption was high but then I found out the protein was pushing the carb spike so far back that I was going to bed in double figures.

But we keep gazillions of egg laying birds. So I want to get back into eating them and see what it does to my chol. numbers.

I think regular exercise with a mix of aerobic and frequent 'pottering' is the way to good health. Along with the sensible dietary changes.🙂

Rob

 

[FM001]

We could do some hens in the back garden, often as a family we can get through 3 dozen a week.

 

[Robster65]

If you've got suitable room and the inclination, there's no reason why you shouldn't have 2 or 3. 🙂

Rob

 

[FM001]

If you've got suitable room and the inclination, there's no reason why you shouldn't have 2 or 3. 🙂

Rob

True but worry my Jack Russell would trouble them or tear them to pieces

 

[Robster65]

True but worry my Jack Russell would trouble them or tear them to pieces

We've got 2 (and 3 collies). But to be fair they're used to them.🙂

If there's any risk, then you're wise to leave it. But if you change your mind, you can come for advice.🙂

Rob

 

[FM001]

Just an update to events.

Got a letter today from my gp surgery from a doctor I don't normally see, he says the consultant has wrote to him and advised that he adds a statin to my medication, the doc has enclosed a prescription for 40g Simvastatin tablet to be taken each night.

I was hoping to discuss this with my usual doctor before starting statins and still in two minds if it is the best course of action, fair do's my LDL was 0.2 above the recommended limit but my HDL and trigs were no concern at all, I'm going to book an appointment for next week and discuss this with them, 40g dose seems high and feel miffed that a lower dose wasn't offered first

 

[Robster65]

Would have to agree with you toby. A chance to discuss would have been a nice gesture and it does sound like a high intro.

Rob

 

[FM001]

Would have to agree with you toby. A chance to discuss would have been a nice gesture and it does sound like a high intro.

Rob

But you have to ask why so high the doc that sent the prescription is next to useless and I don't ever see him unless I'm desperate to get an appointment, my own doc might change his mind and suggest taking a statin but it would definitely be on a lower dose.

 

[Robster65]

If I remember rightly, they started me off on 20mg, did a kidney test and cholestorol, then upped it to 40mg and did the same tetss again, then left me to it.

My chol has nigh on halved but I'm stayign on them for now unless I feel they're doing harm or the evidence turns against them.

Rob

 

[FM001]

If I remember rightly, they started me off on 20mg, did a kidney test and cholestorol, then upped it to 40mg and did the same tetss again, then left me to it.

My chol has nigh on halved but I'm stayign on them for now unless I feel they're doing harm or the evidence turns against them.

Rob

So they worked that is encouraging, do you think you might drop down to 20mg at some point?

 

[Robster65]

I'm going to suggest it next time I go. I don't really know if it's all the tablets or lifestyle mods too.

I've been gradually changing things over the past couple of years, so it's hard to say how much and how quickly anything happens.

But they do seem to have done some good, yes. There's the additional heart protection claims too. Evidence is in their favour still but I'm keeping an eye on any new research.

Rob

 

[Northerner]

I've got a feeling that 40mg is the 'effective' dose for some statins, like simvastatin - normally you would start on a lower dose to see if you coped with them well or if there were indications of side-effects, so it does seem unusual that you are being put straight on the higher dose. I beleive som other statins are effective at lower doses e.g. 20mg, so a lot might depend on what the actual prescription is for.

As I have said before, my consultant is fine with my chol at 4.8 (last time) or 4.4 (yesterday) because my HDL is very good, but I do think that doctors make up their own minds about what is OK and what is not to some extent. There's also the niggling thought that (I believe) they get an extra payment for every diabetic they have below 4.0.

 

[FM001]

I'm going to suggest it next time I go. I don't really know if it's all the tablets or lifestyle mods too.

I've been gradually changing things over the past couple of years, so it's hard to say how much and how quickly anything happens.

But they do seem to have done some good, yes. There's the additional heart protection claims too. Evidence is in their favour still but I'm keeping an eye on any new research.

Rob

The heart protection was the main concern of the consultant. I was hoping to go along the same lines as yourself by changing a few things but without the statin, I'm exercising more than ever now and managed to use spead on my bread instead of butter and reduced the amount of cheese from everyday to twice a week.

I've got a feeling that 40mg is the 'effective' dose for some statins, like simvastatin - normally you would start on a lower dose to see if you coped with them well or if there were indications of side-effects, so it does seem unusual that you are being put straight on the higher dose. I beleive som other statins are effective at lower doses e.g. 20mg, so a lot might depend on what the actual prescription is for.

As I have said before, my consultant is fine with my chol at 4.8 (last time) or 4.4 (yesterday) because my HDL is very good, but I do think that doctors make up their own minds about what is OK and what is not to some extent. There's also the niggling thought that (I believe) they get an extra payment for every diabetic they have below 4.0.

That was the thing that bugged me starting on a high dose instead of a low dose to see if I could tolerate them. My HDL is fine too just the LDL is slightly over, I was reading when starting this thread that more important than anything is the trigs - keeping this below the recommended levels is said to crucial in diabetics according to some sources on the net.

Didn't know they got an extra payment for diabetics below 4, makes sense they would try and get as many below this figure🙄

 

[mcdonagh47]

The heart protection was the main concern of the consultant. :

Atorvastatin seems to be the most effective statin but it is expensive. A fairly typical Ator dose is 20 mg. Research as shown that 40 of simvastatin is just as effective as 20 Ator. And sim is much cheaper so 40 mg is good value for money. Its the standard dose - not particularly high and you don't need to work up to the standard dose unlike metformin for example.
There has been a campaign over the last couple of years in the NHS to switch ator users to 40 mg simvastatin. I was switched about 2 years ago and haven't noticed any difference.

Yes they get a reward for getting a percentage of diabetics under 4 - that shows how important those in the know consider that to be. ( a diabetics risk of heart problems at TC of 4+ is the same as a non-diabetics at 5+ which itself is much higher than a non-diabetics risk at 3 TC).

What's disappointing is that the GPs have to be incentivised to do their basic job !