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Cholesterol levels
- Thread starter lucy123
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HDL - High Density Lipoproteins. Transports cholesterol mostly to the liver and is considered good.
LDL - Low Density Lipoproteins. Transports cholesterol from the liver to the cells and is considered bad.
6 is getting there. I understand that they (the ubiquitous they) want to see levels less than 4 for diabetics because of our statistically increased risk of heart disease.
Andy
LDL - Low Density Lipoproteins. Transports cholesterol from the liver to the cells and is considered bad.
6 is getting there. I understand that they (the ubiquitous they) want to see levels less than 4 for diabetics because of our statistically increased risk of heart disease.
Andy
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C*5_Dodger
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
If you believe the hypothesis about good/bad cholesterol (HDL AND LDL are lipoproteins that ferry cholesterol around the body as Andy described), then 6 is on the high side (mine is 7.5 but I don't believe the hypothesis!). However, your HDL is fantastic. BTW if your LDL went to 0, you would be dead!
Regards Dodger
Regards Dodger
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My levels tend to be all over the shop and generally my HDL is low (despite eating plenty of oily fish and exercising like it's gone out of fashion!)
My last bad reading was 7.1 total cholesterol, LDL was 5.6 and HDL 0.96 (see what I mean?).
I understand that the 4 relates to overall cholesterol as opposed to that ratio which gets used (off hand I can't remember what the ratio is of!)
My last bad reading was 7.1 total cholesterol, LDL was 5.6 and HDL 0.96 (see what I mean?).
I understand that the 4 relates to overall cholesterol as opposed to that ratio which gets used (off hand I can't remember what the ratio is of!)
Oh dear - sorry I am even more confused now.
If my HDL is good and that is higher than my LDL - then why is my overall cholesterol not good - what makes up the missing bit to make it not good - or are you saying the ldl is not good? Sorry for being a bit thick - I would just like to really understand. Is HDL better if is high then? and if so, what is a perfect hdl and ldl? Sorry for all the questions.
Er, pass. I'm a bit lost on this too. Will go do some reading! But LDL is considered bad, yes.
Triglycerides might be the missing link though.
Andy
C*5_Dodger
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
What I am saying is that is what the establisment believes, your level of 6 imho is neither good or bad. The missing bit is the cholesterol that is ferried in VLDL. The latest thinking on LDL is that there are two forms of LDL large fluffy (lfLDL) and small dense (sdLDL) so if you have high LDL, if it is lfLDL then all is well. LDL is part of the bodies cell building/cell repair system. Cholesterol is vital to every cell membrane in your body and the pathway that makes it also makes many other vital substances e.g CoQ10. To answer you question yes high HDL is good, nobody can say what a perfect HDL is its different for everyone!
Regards Dodger
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mcdonagh47
Banned
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Hello Lucy,
Cholesterol is essential to the functioning of the body. The liver can manufacture all it needs - upto 1200 mg a day ( I believe?). But we also take in dietary cholesterol from fat sources.
Cholesterol has to be transported around the body to where it is needed but it is insoluble to water and so has to be packaged in blood fats called lipids, that trundle around with it.
There are 5 major lipids that do the job - Chylomicrons, Very Low Density Lipids (VLDL), High Density Lipids (HDL), Intermediate Density Lipids (IDL)and Low Density Lipids (LDL).
The natural pores in the top layer of tissue in the arteries are 26 nm wide which means any Lipids at or below that width can get into the space (the Endothelium) between the first and second layers of the artery walls. If inflamation is present ( as in Diabetes) the lipids in question can deposit themselves and their cholesterol contents on the inner walls of arteries causing atheromas and plaques. The plaques and atheromas grow, constrict the arteries, break through the top layer into the artery, break off and cause heart attacks etc.
So which Lipids can squeeze through the 26nm pores in the aertery walls ? Well Chylomicrons are huge sods ( 1200nm ave) ; they operate in the guts as a backstop shifting cholesterol that has got through from the stomach to the liver for reprocessing or packaging them in the faeces for excretion.
VLDL are also very big as the their name implies ("very low density"); they can't get through a 26nm gap. They are manufactured in the liver and transport cholesterol and APoE (?) around the body. After they have deposited their chols they become IDL (Intermediate Density Lipids) but they still can't get through the 26nm pores. It is when they have delivered all their contents to the cells that the VLDL-fragments become potentially hazardous and are considered to be LDL. So VLDL levels are also important because about a quarter of them end up as these LDL fragments.
LDL (Low Density Lipids) have an average diameter of 22nm. Bloody hell - most of them can squeeze through the 26nm pores and deposit themselves and their cholesterol on the inflamed macrophages of the endothelium. That is why LDL-C is known as "bad cholesterol".
HDL (High Density Lipids) are even smaller at an average of 16nm so they too can enter the endothelium except that HDL is responsible for collecting cholesterol and taking it away to the liver for reprocessing. That's why HDL-C is called "good cholesterol". It's a duel between HDL and LDL with Statins at dawn at ten paces.
Common sense tells us that we need our HDL in an healthy range and our LDL down at safe but useful levels. The optimum levels for LDL has been demomstrated to be 50-70 mgdl ( I don't know what that is in English money).
For diabetics the complicating factor is Diabetic Dyslipidemia - the biochemistry of the condition tends to depress HDl and elevate LDL. That is why we have to treat our lipid profile aggressively.
A further complicating factor is that when we consume dietary chols it has to be moved from the stomach by LDL ( the "bad" cholesterol). So common sense tells us again that we should moderate, or just keep an eye, on our dietary cholesterol intake because we don't want to unnecessarily increase the LDL in circulation.
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Trigs are the missing link, they use them to calulate both the LDL and the missing bit.
Warning Maths coming up!
Total cholesterol = LDL + HDL + IDL+VLDL
HDL stands for High density lipoprotein, this is normally thought as good.
LDL stands for low density Not so good, but some is essential
IDL intermediate density,
VLDL very low density.
You know
Total cholesterol @6mmol; this is normally considered high
but
HDl @ 3.8 mmol /is excellent should be above 1.2mmol
LDL @ 1.6mmol/l is also very good, should be below 3mmol/l; some doctors say below 2mmol/l for people with diabetes
The remaining missing bit contains the IDL and the VLDL. These are thought to be particularly harmful and you want this portion as low as possible
read the pdf it probably explains a bit better than me!
http://www.heartuk.org.uk/images/uploads/healthylivingpdfs/HUKcfs_E_Freidewald_Method.pdf
Warning Maths coming up!
Total cholesterol = LDL + HDL + IDL+VLDL
HDL stands for High density lipoprotein, this is normally thought as good.
LDL stands for low density Not so good, but some is essential
IDL intermediate density,
VLDL very low density.
You know
Total cholesterol @6mmol; this is normally considered high
but
HDl @ 3.8 mmol /is excellent should be above 1.2mmol
LDL @ 1.6mmol/l is also very good, should be below 3mmol/l; some doctors say below 2mmol/l for people with diabetes
The remaining missing bit contains the IDL and the VLDL. These are thought to be particularly harmful and you want this portion as low as possible
read the pdf it probably explains a bit better than me!
http://www.heartuk.org.uk/images/uploads/healthylivingpdfs/HUKcfs_E_Freidewald_Method.pdf
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Wow - so my cholesterols are okay then - apart from possibly the IDL and VLDL, which cause my total cholesterol to be high. So now I just need to look at how to lower the last 2?
This is complicated, but fascinating stuff! Thank you for taking time to type it all.
This is complicated, but fascinating stuff! Thank you for taking time to type it all.
C*5_Dodger
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Dear lucy,
I'm amazed that you have not lost the will to live after reading the stuff we have been hitting you with. You can see that it is mostly in agreement. Just remember that none of us has done any original research (true??) and we have got it from the internet. You must do whatever makes you feel happy. My opinion is that you're OK!
Regards Dodger
Robster65
Senior Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 1
Just catching up. Or trying to 
Truly fascinating and thanks to all for explaining in such detail. Can I just ask, i fanyone knows, whether ALL diabetics have an increased risk, ie. have inflamed endothelium (is that right ?) or whether it's just a statistically increased risk of inflammation ?
I realise that there are differing opinions on the hypothesis and what should be done, if anything, to alter the various levels, but I'm interested in the current consensus amongst health professionals.
I hope I can find out my most recent breakdown since my nurse has not filled me with confident, so it would be better if I can decide for myself, with advice from this and other threads whether to continue taking statins.
Rob
Truly fascinating and thanks to all for explaining in such detail. Can I just ask, i fanyone knows, whether ALL diabetics have an increased risk, ie. have inflamed endothelium (is that right ?) or whether it's just a statistically increased risk of inflammation ?
I realise that there are differing opinions on the hypothesis and what should be done, if anything, to alter the various levels, but I'm interested in the current consensus amongst health professionals.
I hope I can find out my most recent breakdown since my nurse has not filled me with confident, so it would be better if I can decide for myself, with advice from this and other threads whether to continue taking statins.
Rob
I think I would recheck those results Lucy. I've never seen an HDL quite that high before. It may well be that they are the other way round ie LDL 3.8 and HDL 1.6 this would be a more normal pattern. Don't worry about VLDL/IDL, these are reflected by your triglyceride result which is normal.
MargB
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Fascinating thread!!!
The last time I got a breakdown was March 2010 which was when I was diagnosed with diabetes. Then the levels were Hdl 1.1, LDL 2.6, Triglycerides 1.8, overall 4.5 - which were good compared to where I started before taking statins donkey's years ago! However, the statin doseage was doubled to 40mg and my last test in December 2010 showed an overall figure of 3.5 but I didn't ask for the breakdown.
The last time I got a breakdown was March 2010 which was when I was diagnosed with diabetes. Then the levels were Hdl 1.1, LDL 2.6, Triglycerides 1.8, overall 4.5 - which were good compared to where I started before taking statins donkey's years ago! However, the statin doseage was doubled to 40mg and my last test in December 2010 showed an overall figure of 3.5 but I didn't ask for the breakdown.
C*5_Dodger
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Dear fruitloaf,
That's an interesting point you make, so I went searching on another forum and found "Avocado" who has an HDL of
3.0. Anybody other than lucy, beat that.
Regards Dodger
mcdonagh47
Banned
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Just catching up. Or trying to
Truly fascinating and thanks to all for explaining in such detail. Can I just ask, i fanyone knows, whether ALL diabetics have an increased risk, ie. have inflamed endothelium (is that right ?) or whether it's just a statistically increased risk of inflammation ?
Type 2 diabetes is definitely associated with endothelial dysfunction since the root cause of Type 2 is thought to be "inflammation" anyway.
Type 1 also seem to be at increased risk. The onset of Type 1 itself is described as an "inflammatory event". This bit of research below ..."Inflammatory activity is increased in type 1 diabetes and may predispose to vascular disease." ... might be of interest ...
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/26/7/2165.full
Yes a very good point, if the levels were the other way round then the calculation for trigs would also be very wrong and I too have done a search and can't find any higher so I think I'll edited out the calculation just in case.
Just in case anyone is wondering (like I was), endothelium is the inner lining of our blood vessels.
Andy
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