Checking level when driving

[JohnWhi]

No problem, just making sure that I understand. In the days before current regulations, when using the Libre 1, I could swipe it when driving to check my level between the two-hour finger-pricks. More recently, with CGM and pump, if the pump alarmed requesting calibration, I could take it out and cancel it until the next stop. I gather both are now illegal. "It’s illegal to hold any device that can send or receive data, while driving" https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law . So I have to leave the motorway at the next exit, find a parking place, switch off, and check. For checking the level, one solution seems to be a hands-free fixture for the iPhone, always leave the app open, and touch to see. Is this what everyone does? The pump is more difficult, as the alarm becomes rather loud after a short time. Make sure to calibrate every time before driving?

 

[rebrascora]

I didn't think it was ever legal to scan Libre whilst driving although if my partner is in the car, I have asked him to scan me.
I am guessing that a phone linked to a smart watch set up to display BG would be perfectly acceptable. There are a few people who do this through unofficial apps with Libre. I am a tech dinosaur so can't help with the details, but there are threads on the forum about it.

 

[JohnWhi]

I didn't think it was ever legal to scan Libre

Thanks, agreed that this was probably never legal. It is a good few years since I used Libre. As my levels tend to be fairly stable when driving, my main difficulty when alone is identifying the multiplicity of different alarms (calibration, low reservoir, need to replace infusion set, as well as high and low) that may come from the pump. If the iPhone is dashboard-mounted, a touch will wake it and one can see. Is this what people do? I don't see any way of acknowledging the alarm without holding the pump, but somebody may know the answer.

 

[helli]

I don’t understand why you cannot pull over onto the hard shoulder to sort out your problem.
When I was diagnosed (before anyone I know had any form of CGM), I was told, if I thought I felt hypo, I should pull over and prick my finger. Then the usual treat and wait if I was.

I believe (but happy to be corrected) you cannot interact with a phone whilst driving. So, a dashboard mounted phone to acknowledge alarms would not be allowed.

 

[Lucyr]

No problem, just making sure that I understand. In the days before current regulations, when using the Libre 1, I could swipe it when driving to check my level between the two-hour finger-pricks. More recently, with CGM and pump, if the pump alarmed requesting calibration, I could take it out and cancel it until the next stop. I gather both are now illegal. "It’s illegal to hold any device that can send or receive data, while driving" https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law . So I have to leave the motorway at the next exit, find a parking place, switch off, and check. For checking the level, one solution seems to be a hands-free fixture for the iPhone, always leave the app open, and touch to see. Is this what everyone does? The pump is more difficult, as the alarm becomes rather loud after a short time. Make sure to calibrate every time before driving?

The “Is this what everyone does” for leaving the app open question… no that’s not what I do. If I need to check my blood sugar or do a correction of insulin or do anything else diabetes related then I pull over in the next safe place, park the car, switch off the engine, remove the keys and then do what I need to do. You can’t hold or interact with your phone or pump whilst driving.

Why would you need to see your blood sugar whilst driving? If you don’t have hypo awareness then you need to inform the DVLA and may be likely to lose your licence.

 

[Lucyr]

I don’t understand why you cannot pull over onto the hard shoulder to sort out your problem.
When I was diagnosed (before anyone I know had any form of CGM), I was told, if I thought I felt hypo, I should pull over and prick my finger. Then the usual treat and wait if I was.

I believe (but happy to be corrected) you cannot interact with a phone whilst driving. So, a dashboard mounted phone to acknowledge alarms would not be allowed.

The hard shoulder is the most dangerous place to be, you shouldn’t stop there to check an alarm, only stop on the hard shoulder if you can’t safely get to the next services or exit. If you feel hypo whilst driving treat it immediately, before stopping if there’s nowhere to immediately stop. If you do have to stop on the hard shoulder for a hypo you need to get out of the car and behind the crash barriers until you’re safe to drive.

 

[JJay]

I have xDrip4ioS on my phone to link my Libre to my Apple watch. The phone stays in the cupholder when I'm driving with xDirp4ioS on lock screen. Thus I can see my levels at all times. This is no more "interacting with my phone" than keeping an eye on the speedometer. If levels are dropping then of course I pull off at a safe stopping place (I almost never drive on motorways nowadays) and take appropriate action.

 

[42istheanswer]

I didn't think it was ever legal to scan Libre whilst driving although if my partner is in the car, I have asked him to scan me.
I am guessing that a phone linked to a smart watch set up to display BG would be perfectly acceptable. There are a few people who do this through unofficial apps with Libre. I am a tech dinosaur so can't help with the details, but there are threads on the forum about it.

The reason they updated the law on mobile phones and driving was because it was written pre-smartphones so previously technically only banned making phonecalls and sending messages. Some people successfully argued their way out of a conviction in courts when playing games etc on their phones while driving...

@JohnWhi I'm pretty sure that any form of touching your phone screen while driving is now illegal

 

[helli]

The hard shoulder is the most dangerous place to be, you shouldn’t stop there to check an alarm, only stop on the hard shoulder if you can’t safely get to the next services or exit. If you feel hypo whilst driving treat it immediately, before stopping if there’s nowhere to immediately stop. If you do have to stop on the hard shoulder for a hypo you need to get out of the car and behind the crash barriers until you’re safe to drive.

Are you suggesting if you feel a hypo and cannot stop you treat it, whilst driving, and carry on driving?
I think the hard shoulder (and walking away from the car over the crash barriers) would be safer.

 

[Lucyr]

Are you suggesting if you feel a hypo and cannot stop you treat it, whilst driving, and carry on driving?
I think the hard shoulder (and walking away from the car over the crash barriers) would be safer.

The DVLA says to stop in the next safe place. The hard shoulder is unsafe so there’s a bit of a judgement call to be made on where you feel safest.

I do a lot of very long journeys driving alone. If you feel the early warning signs of your blood sugar starting to drop it’s often safest to treat, in case you are heading to hypo (as your hypo treatments should always be to hand in the car) and continue driving then stop at the next exit.

I’ve never stopped on the hard shoulder for a hypo and would do that only if it felt unsafe to continue driving to the next exit (eg if I thought I was dropping bg extremely fast or felt unsafe driving eg dizzy, etc)

Everyone that has diabetes and is driving should have good hypo awareness so we are capable of identifying the signs early. This means we are not talking very low bgs where you might suddenly pass out here, we’re talking noticing when you’re in the low 4s or high 3s, shoving a few jelly babies in your mouth and keeping a close eye on how you feel for the couple of minutes to the next exit.

 

[JohnWhi]

Why would you need to see your blood sugar whilst driving? If you don’t have hypo awareness then you need to inform the DVLA and may be likely to lose your licence.

Sorry, I take offence at this remark. I have been driving with Type 1 for 41 years and would have been well aware of a hypo. Hypo awareness has been checked at the clinic, where the specialist approved licence renewal in July. I have also read the DVLA regulations. I like to be able to see the level when driving in the same way that I like to see the speed I am going and the amount of fuel available, though I have very good awareness of both.

 

[JohnWhi]

I regret posting this thread as it has been interpreted as some kind of concern about blood sugar and given rise to needless remarks that I have found upsetting. Thinking further, I had considered placing the pump in a dashboard holder, where I could acknowledge something like this morning's "Replace battery soon" without taking eyes off the road if I were more than half an hour from the next exit or unable to find a parking place. I gather this would also be illegal. My current strategy of avoiding alarms seems the best and safest.

 

[42istheanswer]

I regret posting this thread as it has been interpreted as some kind of concern about blood sugar and given rise to needless remarks that I have found upsetting. Thinking further, I had considered placing the pump in a dashboard holder, where I could acknowledge something like this morning's "Replace battery soon" without taking eyes off the road if I were more than half an hour from the next exit or unable to find a parking place. I gather this would also be illegal. My current strategy of avoiding alarms seems the best and safest.

If the reminder is via an app on your phone then I guess it would depend if the app would respond to a verbal acknowledgment. Handsfree talking is still permitted. I agree that avoiding alarms as far as possible does seem the safest option

 

[Robin]

Everyone seems to miss the point/value of the libre, even my diabetes consultant had a moment of clarity when I explained how I use it. I use the libre to avoid highs and lows, I repeated to the consultant "to avoid highs and lows". Because she first said to me "don't you get hypo symptoms?" Why rely on the alarms? Because I said, I set my low alarm to 5.5. if the main graph is trending downwards and there is a accompanying downward arrow at 5.5 then I treat.

The whole point of having all this data is to be able to avoid a hypo, not to wait for the alarm to go off or wait for hypo symptoms to occur. There is great value in been able to check blood (or interstitial) sugars whilst doing any activity.

I agree, I always set my alarm to 5.5 on a long walk, then I have a snack if the alarm goes off. Pre Libre, I'd wait til I got hypo symptoms, and by that stage although I was still in the 4s, by the time glucose had kicked in, I was feeling wobbly and struggling to keep up with the rest of the family. It’s much better now I can stave that off and actually enjoy the whole walk.
I get OH to test me when I’m driving, because on a long trip we are usually together. I’d rather stave off a hypo that have to treat it when I start getting symptoms, especially if that would,mean pulling on to the hard shoulder - they are dangerous places, but in a hypo emergency, that’s what I’d have to do, and exit the vehicle and get over the crash barrier, but then the car is still a hazard for any lorry that wanders off the inside lane. I have tested myself with the reader while driving, grabbing it from the cup holder and swiping it without taking my eyes off the road, and then a quick glance at the figure, same as looking at the speedo. That was before the new regs. Haven’t thought what I'd do now if I was on my own. We need some sort of device that will speak the reading.

 

[littlevoice359]

No problem, just making sure that I understand. In the days before current regulations, when using the Libre 1, I could swipe it when driving to check my level between the two-hour finger-pricks. More recently, with CGM and pump, if the pump alarmed requesting calibration, I could take it out and cancel it until the next stop. I gather both are now illegal. "It’s illegal to hold any device that can send or receive data, while driving" https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-driving-the-law . So I have to leave the motorway at the next exit, find a parking place, switch off, and check. For checking the level, one solution seems to be a hands-free fixture for the iPhone, always leave the app open, and touch to see. Is this what everyone does? The pump is more difficult, as the alarm becomes rather loud after a short time. Make sure to calibrate every time before driving?

I have not tried this myself, but if your car supports Apple CarPlay, then I believe that can be configured to display calendar events on the dashboard.
I know of at least one iPhone app (Shugah - works by getting readings over bluetooth from an NFC/Bluetooth adapter sitting on top of the Libre sensor) which will display blood sugar as a calendar event. I have used it do display BG values on my Apple Watch, but do not have CarPlay configured so cannot guarantee this would work.
But, if you had that app (or one like it - a previous poster mentioned xDrip4IOS) working on your iPhone, then it seems to me that this could allow your blood sugar to be displayed on your dashboard.
Just a thought. Hope it makes sense?

 

[Lucyr]

Sorry, I take offence at this remark. I have been driving with Type 1 for 41 years and would have been well aware of a hypo. Hypo awareness has been checked at the clinic, where the specialist approved licence renewal in July. I have also read the DVLA regulations. I like to be able to see the level when driving in the same way that I like to see the speed I am going and the amount of fuel available, though I have very good awareness of both.

There’s nothing offensive about what I wrote. If you’re able to feel hypos, and you’re checking bg before driving, then you should be able to drive without looking at the bg constantly during the drive.

If you need to see the libre readings during the drive to know whether your levels are okay then I’d question your hypo awareness.

 

[JJay]

If you need to see the libre readings during the drive to know whether your levels are okay then I’d question your hypo awareness.

Seriously?! If you started a 2 hour drive at say, 6.5 why on earth wouldn't you want to know if you'd dropped to 5 - which of course isn't hypo but presumably you've heard of "5 to drive"? The whole point of Libre is that it shows your "diection of travel" (no pun intended) and I'd much rather know if I'd got down to 5 so that I had time to find somewhere safe to stop and have a snack, than wait until I had hypo symptoms and have to shove JBs in my mouth with one hand while steering with the other.

 

[Lucyr]

Seriously?! If you started a 2 hour drive at say, 6.5 why on earth wouldn't you want to know if you'd dropped to 5 - which of course isn't hypo but presumably you've heard of "5 to drive"? The whole point of Libre is that it shows your "diection of travel" (no pun intended) and I'd much rather know if I'd got down to 5 so that I had time to find somewhere safe to stop and have a snack, than wait until I had hypo symptoms and have to shove JBs in my mouth with one hand while steering with the other.

You don’t need to be 5 to drive. It’s fine to drive down to 4 so long as you had a snack before setting off if you were 4 then. Looking at your sensor whilst driving would be as distracting as reading a text message. There’s a good reason it’s illegal. If you feel you’re dropping, pull over at the next safe place, ideally not the hard shoulder, and check it there.

 

[JJay]

You don’t need to be 5 to drive. It’s fine to drive down to 4 so long as you had a snack before setting off if you were 4 then. Looking at your sensor whilst driving would be as distracting as reading a text message. There’s a good reason it’s illegal. If you feel you’re dropping, pull over at the next safe place, ideally not the hard shoulder, and check it there.

From DVLA guide to insulin-treated diabetes and driving:

Advice on managing hypoglycaemia or developing hypoglycaemia at times relevant to driving
• In each case if your glucose is 5.0mmol/L or less, eat a snack. If it is less than 4.0mmol/L or you feel hypoglycaemic do not drive.
• If hypoglycaemia develops while driving stop the vehicle safely as soon as possible.
• You should switch off the engine, remove the keys from the ignition and move from the driver’s seat.
• You should not start driving again until 45 minutes after finger prick glucose has returned to normal (at least 5.0mmol/L). It takes up to 45 minutes for the brain to recover fully.
• If you use a real time (RT-CGM) or flash glucose monitoring (FGM) system to check your glucose levels and the reading is 4.0mmol/L or below, you must stop driving and confirm your finger prick glucose test reading.
• Your finger prick glucose level must be at least 5.0mmol/L before returning to driving.

Screenshot of my xDrip4iOS display:


Visible at all times and actually larger figures than my speedo! (shocking graph - pizza & wine)

 

[Lucyr]

From DVLA guide to insulin-treated diabetes and driving:

Advice on managing hypoglycaemia or developing hypoglycaemia at times relevant to driving
• In each case if your glucose is 5.0mmol/L or less, eat a snack. If it is less than 4.0mmol/L or you feel hypoglycaemic do not drive.
• If hypoglycaemia develops while driving stop the vehicle safely as soon as possible.
• You should switch off the engine, remove the keys from the ignition and move from the driver’s seat.
• You should not start driving again until 45 minutes after finger prick glucose has returned to normal (at least 5.0mmol/L). It takes up to 45 minutes for the brain to recover fully.
• If you use a real time (RT-CGM) or flash glucose monitoring (FGM) system to check your glucose levels and the reading is 4.0mmol/L or below, you must stop driving and confirm your finger prick glucose test reading.
• Your finger prick glucose level must be at least 5.0mmol/L before returning to driving.

Screenshot of my xDrip4iOS display:
View attachment 22296

Visible at all times and actually larger figures than my speedo! (shocking graph - pizza & wine)

Exactly as you said, you can drive below 5.0, it’s only below 4.0 that you need to stop and wait 45 minutes.