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Charges dropped against hypo driver.

Amity Island said:
Hi Rebrascora,

I always enjoy reading all your comments on the forum.

As a type 1, I've managed to avoid getting into these sorts of states of confusion/hypo with help of the libre. Not sure if everyone uses a libre though. My "low" (not actually low/hypo) alarm is set at 5.5 which usually gives me enough time/warning to act before a hypo appears. Failing that, my hypo awareness is very good. If dvla make the necessary change from 2hrs prior to driving to nearer to the time and people use their libre efficiently these sorts of events can in the main be avoided.
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I totally agree and like you the combination of Libre and checking my levels as I get into the driving seat, as well as an hour before if I have an appointment to get to, so that I don't get caught out at the last minute, but this man may not have had access to Libre and may have lost hypo awareness or may have had a sudden release of insulin trapped in tissue that dropping him too fast, or maybe even having an afternoon nap and dropped into a bad hypo and woke up totally disorientated. Clearly whatever the circumstances they were enough to convince a magistrate, so either he genuinely had a valid defence or the prosecution was very poor or the laws in Australia are different.
We can speculate all we want, but without knowing the exact circumstances, I think it is dangerous to speculate or judge it ourselves.

All we can do as insulin dependent drivers is keep ourselves and others safe by doing whatever we can to reduce the risks to the minimum, if that is going beyond what the DVLA guidelines state, then that is up to us, but I do think with current technology, the DVLA guidelines could be updated, to tighten things up further. I also think that anyone using insulin who drives should be prescribed and use a CGM and perhaps even a mandatory low alarm setting. I also think there should be a marker on CGM the same as for food and insulin to show that a DVLA check has been noted, so that you can actually log it.
 
@Amity Island and @rebrascora I do have further comments on this but suspect they would be removed as not BBC verified and may offend some. I will message you both then later as just starting my new physio session. (walking emoji).
 
My routine is check just prior to leaving what my levels are and if below 5.0 have a small snack to boost me up a little more.
I then rely on my pump G6 sensor combo to alarm if I go low. For me my alarm low warning is set for 4.0 as I can still react logically at that point and then I would wait until I have risen to be within my safe driving range.

Maybe the DVLA should insist all drivers must wear a sensor that gives an audible warning when going low.
Also I have 2 bottles of Lucozade 1 in each front door and a packet of sweets in the glove compartment.

Best
 
There was an incident in Glasgow a few years ago when a bin lorry driver had a blackout (not a hypo) and ran over and killed 5 people in his path.

He wasn’t convicted but the victims’ families took out private prosecutions against him.

He did lose his job as he hadn’t declared his health record.
 
I had a hypo driving on the motorway. I became aware and stopped on the hard shoulder.

Like others I check an hour before I need to drive and then also check before I set off. I had done all this as usual. I was well in range and had no arrows indicating that I was going to be dropping. 20 minutes later I had the hypo. I still have no idea why. Possibly a lump from a cannula that had some insulin in it.
This is why it is essential that we do not drive if we have lost our hypo awareness.

I now have an open bag of JBs next to me when driving, and also eat a couple of JBs for the road. I would rather run a little high whilst driving than experience that again.
 
The ''only drive above 5" mantra is so important. Even then it can be problematic. Last year I was driving my family to a picnic at my daughters school. I was 5.5 prior to setting off. Daughter had a bit of a meltdown as she wanted a specific toy for the car and we spent time prior to leaving desperately searching the house. 10 minutes later, stuck in a bit of traffic and eventually recovering from the stress of the meltdown, I felt rotten. My wife scanned my sensor as I was driving and said "you're green, 4.5 with a downward arrow". I pulled over, ate a few jelly babies and scanned again. 3.5. It turned out to be a really nasty hypo and was half an hour before my levels returned to normal and a further hour or so before I felt well again.

This has never happened to me since. Now when I drive I scan several times before I am in the car, pop my phone's Libre notification on loud and adjust the alarm from my usual 4.2 to 5. The thought of being at the controls of something that has the potential to harm others doesn't bear thinking about, so anything I can do to mitigate that threat, I am going to do.
 
Amity Island said:
As tragic and probably fully preventable as the "accident" was (esp with cgm and alerts etc). Diabetes is a difficult thing to manage 24/7. Nobody wants to have diabetes or be taking insulin. The sooner the DVLA update the guidance on testing before driving the better. That said, guidance does not preclude anyone from testing more regularly and nearer to the time of driving. There are much more common causes of vehicle related incidents out there which I see every day. Driving whilst drunk, under influence of drugs and using mobile phones or even hands free conversations whilst driving and just plain bad or aggressive driving.
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Absolutely! I'm a keen cyclist and I'm conscious that I don't stand a chance (whether or not I'm wearing a helmet) if a ton of metal drives into me at 50mph. People make a fuss about the vanishingly rare number of injuries and deaths caused by (for example) people riding bikes or people having hypos - and conveniently downplay the real causes of the vast majority of car-related injuries and deaths.
 
C&E Guy said:
There was an incident in Glasgow a few years ago when a bin lorry driver had a blackout (not a hypo) and ran over and killed 5 people in his path.

He wasn’t convicted but the victims’ families took out private prosecutions against him.

He did lose his job as he hadn’t declared his health record.
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I remember that: I guess any of us with significant health issues that could affect our driving have a big responsibility to not drive if in any doubt about our fitness. At least one driver has been sent to prison for falling asleep at the wheel and killing people, being deemed to be negligent by not having slept sufficiently beforehand.
 
rebrascora said:
I totally agree and like you the combination of Libre and checking my levels as I get into the driving seat, as well as an hour before if I have an appointment to get to, so that I don't get caught out at the last minute, but this man may not have had access to Libre and may have lost hypo awareness or may have had a sudden release of insulin trapped in tissue that dropping him too fast, or maybe even having an afternoon nap and dropped into a bad hypo and woke up totally disorientated. Clearly whatever the circumstances they were enough to convince a magistrate, so either he genuinely had a valid defence or the prosecution was very poor or the laws in Australia are different.
We can speculate all we want, but without knowing the exact circumstances, I think it is dangerous to speculate or judge it ourselves.

All we can do as insulin dependent drivers is keep ourselves and others safe by doing whatever we can to reduce the risks to the minimum, if that is going beyond what the DVLA guidelines state, then that is up to us, but I do think with current technology, the DVLA guidelines could be updated, to tighten things up further. I also think that anyone using insulin who drives should be prescribed and use a CGM and perhaps even a mandatory low alarm setting. I also think there should be a marker on CGM the same as for food and insulin to show that a DVLA check has been noted, so that you can actually log it.
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There's some further information on another news article https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-18/daylesford-crash-william-swale-committal-day-3/104359520 but still not clear it seems whether he had heard alarms from his CGM via his phone
 
Ivostas66 said:
The ''only drive above 5" mantra is so important. Even then it can be problematic. Last year I was driving my family to a picnic at my daughters school. I was 5.5 prior to setting off. Daughter had a bit of a meltdown as she wanted a specific toy for the car and we spent time prior to leaving desperately searching the house. 10 minutes later, stuck in a bit of traffic and eventually recovering from the stress of the meltdown, I felt rotten. My wife scanned my sensor as I was driving and said "you're green, 4.5 with a downward arrow". I pulled over, ate a few jelly babies and scanned again. 3.5. It turned out to be a really nasty hypo and was half an hour before my levels returned to normal and a further hour or so before I felt well again.

This has never happened to me since. Now when I drive I scan several times before I am in the car, pop my phone's Libre notification on loud and adjust the alarm from my usual 4.2 to 5. The thought of being at the controls of something that has the potential to harm others doesn't bear thinking about, so anything I can do to mitigate that threat, I am going to do.
Click to expand...
How many times do children's meltdowns cause hypos, that's what I would like to know? This one should be on the causes of hypo list as it is a different type of stress.
Sounds scary, glad your all safe.
 
I remember reading about a T1 driving in Wales who crashed and killed his young son. Makes me feel sick to my core. To hurt anyone in this way, for something that you couldn't help is beyond heartbreaking but your own child.
It was a long journey and perhaps more breaks would have helped, before CGM's. I am sure these diabetics will never stop thinking about what the could have done differently and all we can do is our best to stay in range and check, check and check.
 
PhoebeC said:
How many times do children's meltdowns cause hypos, that's what I would like to know? This one should be on the causes of hypo list as it is a different type of stress.
Sounds scary, glad your all safe.
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Along with colleagues and ex’s but at least you can walk away from them.
 
Leadinglights said:
Looking at the Australian regulations they even more stringent that the UK. 2 year medical licence if taking insulin, 5 years if oral meds but still have to inform even if dietary managed.
Need to be 5mmol/l just before driving. Regs wee updated in 2016.
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Wow, that makes so much sense! Really think that DVLA ought to introduce similar restrictions for diabetes here in the UK. 2 year restricted licences if taking insulin and 5 year ones for those of us on oral meds sounds far more appropriate for today’s roads than current rules, as does the requirement for even those who are diet-controlled to report their diabetes.
As someone on oral medication I wouldn’t mind being restricted to a 5 year licence, as anything that raises awareness of the potential risks and dangers associated with driving and diabetes has to be positively encouraged. I certainly don’t like excessive legislation and bureaucracy, but if by updating the existing rules even just one tragedy like this was avoided it would be so worthwhile.
 
Why should all drivers on insulin be reduced to a 3 year licence @Sussexmax ? There’s absolutely no evidence that’s needed. In fact, there was a thread here recently (from DUK, I think) asking about changes to licences and the majority thought the licence for those on insulin should be extended to 5 years.
 
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