Charges dropped against hypo driver.

Amity Island

Amity Island

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
I am as shocked as the family, and would have made him serve 10 years minimum and given a life long driving ban. Maybe he will do the decent thing?

This sort of publicity is bad for insulin controlled diabetics as we all want to show we can lead normal lives!
 
The article does make it clear that the decision was technically (and legally) complicated. If he got in his car whilst suffering from mild hypo symptoms, which then got worse, he should never have got in the car.

But consider this. You have a severe hypo, severe enough to cloud your judgment so you don’t really know what you’re doing. Whilst in this state, you get in your car and drive off (maybe something deep down in your subconscious is telling you to go to a shop to buy jelly babies), which you’d never ever have done if you had full possession of your faculties, And then you crash it.(leave aside the appalling consequences of this particular case, this is purely a point of legal mental capacity we are thinking about at the moment). Are you guilty of driving without checking your blood glucose? Or guilty of dangerous driving? Or something else?

If you committed a murder or other crime whilst not mentally aware of what you were doing, sleepwalking, or being in any other automaton state, that’s a valid legal defence. As always with these cases, it’s a fine line between one viewpoint and the other, and never clear cut.
 
After some thought, I agree with @Robin This is an awful, awful tragedy and my heart goes out to the victims. I also feel sorry for the driver, having to live with that. Hypos do cause cognitive dysfunction and can affect decision making.

Would you bang up someone who suffered an unexpected heart attack at the wheel @MikeyBikey ?

This reminds me of that dreadful case where a driver ploughed into a school in Wimbledon after suffering her first epileptic seizure.
 
I think in the UK at least, driving whilst hypo would be in breach of contract. When one renews their 3 year licence (as a condition), there is a box to tick saying you agree to check your blood glucose prior to driving. However, there is an inherent problem with this as it only requires a check 2hrs before driving. This should be changed to within 10 mins or so before driving.
 
That’s why it would be interesting to see the details @Amity Island Did he get in the car with a blood sugar of 4.3 knowing he might drop further, did he get in the car at 3.6 because his judgement was already impaired? Had he tested 30 minutes earlier, been 6.9, and felt fine so decided to drive, but unknown to him his blood sugar had dropped to 3.5?

I have a Dexcom now but I still fingerprick to drive. Before CGMs, I’d fingerprick multiple times over a period of time before getting in the car. The 2hrs thing is silly, I agree. Better to test more often, including shortly before getting in the car.
 
Inka said:
That’s why it would be interesting to see the details @Amity Island Did he get in the car with a blood sugar of 4.3 knowing he might drop further, did he get in the car at 3.6 because his judgement was already impaired? Had he tested 30 minutes earlier, been 6.9, and felt fine so decided to drive, but unknown to him his blood sugar had dropped to 3.5?

I have a Dexcom now but I still fingerprick to drive. Before CGMs, I’d fingerprick multiple times over a period of time before getting in the car. The 2hrs thing is silly, I agree. Better to test more often, including shortly before getting in the car.
Click to expand...
Where did that 2hrs rule come from?
 
MikeyBikey said:
I am as shocked as the family, and would have made him serve 10 years minimum and given a life long driving ban. Maybe he will do the decent thing?

This sort of publicity is bad for insulin controlled diabetics as we all want to show we can lead normal lives!
Click to expand...
What would be "the decent thing" for him to do?
 
I believe that some people have experienced very sudden and severe hypos whilst driving, perhaps caused by Lantus getting trapped in tissue and then suddenly releasing weeks or even months later. I don't know quite how you can prove this but if I am not mistaken @trophywench experienced a sudden hypo whilst driving, causing her to crash....please correct me if I am wrong.... but had not breached any driving regulations, it just happened very suddenly.

I know we also have other well respected members of the forum who have had sudden severe hypos causing seizure when they were not driving, but could perhaps just as easily have happened when they were driving.
I have had a couple of bad hypos where I knew I needed to do something, but I couldn't think straight. Perhaps this man, in a similar confused state knew he needed hypo treatments and got in the car to get them because that was foremost in his mind, which blanked out the more important thought that he must not drive in that condition. Perhaps he had been planning to go shopping or attend an appointment before the hypo happened and that was what he was focussed on in that period of irrational thought. I know my 2 bad hypos, I got myself in a real panic and realised that I was in danger but just couldn't think straight as to what I needed to do. In my case I was so obsessed with trying to stop the alarm on my phone and log that I had eaten some JBs that I didn't actually eat them. I tried 14 times in a matter of 5 mins to scan and log those carbs, even though the JBs were right next to me, but my overriding thought was to stop the alarm because it was screeching and panicking me! Thankfully I was not driving at the time as both developed whilst I was asleep, but I remember that my mind was not rational and as a result I was not in control of myself.
None of us know the full circumstances of this case, but if you have ever had a bad hypo you must know that you can do totally irrational things in that state.

My heart goes out to all concerned.
 
My father had a hypo crash but had to keep secret he had diabetes because otherwise he would lose his job.
I suspect this happens way more often than we think.
 
No - I was on Humulin I and S when I had the meeting with the crash barrier on the M42; the pocket of Lantus incident happened when I was still in the Diabetes Clinic at Rugby hospital and the DSN fed me custard creams until my BG went up enough to enable me to walk the distance back o the carpark and drive home again. And I've always disliked custard creams and still do!
 
I remember reading this story and I do have great sympathy for the families of the victims killed..but he knew the seriousness of the hypo attack when he got into his SUV...so I completely agree with @MikeyBikey when he said this is bad publicity for insulin users.
 
As tragic and probably fully preventable as the "accident" was (esp with cgm and alerts etc). Diabetes is a difficult thing to manage 24/7. Nobody wants to have diabetes or be taking insulin. The sooner the DVLA update the guidance on testing before driving the better. That said, guidance does not preclude anyone from testing more regularly and nearer to the time of driving. There are much more common causes of vehicle related incidents out there which I see every day. Driving whilst drunk, under influence of drugs and using mobile phones or even hands free conversations whilst driving and just plain bad or aggressive driving.
 
Amity Island said:
As tragic and probably fully preventable as the "accident" was (esp with cgm and alerts etc). Diabetes is a difficult thing to manage 24/7. Nobody wants to have diabetes or be taking insulin. The sooner the DVLA update the guidance on testing before driving the better. That said, guidance does not preclude anyone from testing more regularly and nearer to the time of driving. There are much more common causes of vehicle related incidents out there which I see every day. Driving whilst drunk, under influence of drugs and using mobile phones or even hands free conversations whilst driving and just plain bad or aggressive driving.
Click to expand...
You're absolutely right @Amity Island the DVLA need to update these guidelines quickly before something like this happen again.
 
Last edited:
stephenS50 said:
You absolutely right @Amity Island the DVLA need to update these guidelines quickly before something like this happen again.
Click to expand...
This incident happened in Daylesford, Victoria. I am not sure what the guidelines are in Australia but changing DVLA guidance would clearly make little difference there.
 
rebrascora said:
This incident happened in Daylesford, Victoria. I am not sure what the guidelines are in Australia but changing DVLA guidance would clearly make little difference there.
Click to expand...
Hi @rebrascora

As soon as I posted I knew that comment would come back.

I meant it from the perspective of a U.K Citizen. I wouldn't want a lesson like that to be wasted here or anywhere else.
 
Amity Island said:
Hi @rebrascora

As soon as I posted I knew that comment would come back.

I meant it from the perspective of a U.K Citizen. I wouldn't want a lesson like that to be wasted here or anywhere else.
Click to expand...

Sorry to be that irritating person. 🙄 Just thought that the regulations in Australia may be even less stringent than they are here.
If however the circumstances are that he got in the car whilst in a very confused state of hypoglycaemia and didn't know what he was doing, similar to sleep walking, then it would make no difference in this situation.
 
rebrascora said:
Sorry to be that irritating person. 🙄 Just thought that the regulations in Australia may be even less stringent than they are here.
If however the circumstances are that he got in the car whilst in a very confused state of hypoglycaemia and didn't know what he was doing, similar to sleep walking, then it would make no difference in this situation.
Click to expand...
Hi Rebrascora,

I always enjoy reading all your comments on the forum.

As a type 1, I've managed to avoid getting into these sorts of states of confusion/hypo with help of the libre. Not sure if everyone uses a libre though. My "low" (not actually low/hypo) alarm is set at 5.5 which usually gives me enough time/warning to act before a hypo appears. Failing that, my hypo awareness is very good. If dvla make the necessary change from 2hrs prior to driving to nearer to the time and people use their libre efficiently these sorts of events can in the main be avoided.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top