Can someone explain… why T2 and Pre can’t go back to a normal diet once…

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I got prediabetew in Feb 24 with 42 but now I’m 35. I want to see if I get it to below 30… but not sure if that’s possible.

I actually like low carb diets. It’s very similar to a gym diet and I just see it as that. I’ve started to focus on body fat and I want to maintain at least 15% body fat.

My goals have changed now from delaying T2 to seeing if I can get less than 10% body fat. I basically want to look like Brad Pitt from Fight Club. That’s my new motive.
 
As ADA has made clear, there is no such thing as reversing Type 2 Diabetes. In the present state of knowledge, once securely diagnosed there is no going back. Gaining Good Control doesn't mean the fundamentals - genes, Metabolic Syndrome, Insulin Resistance have been changed or removed. The words 'reversing' and 'reversal' shouldn't be allowed on this Support Group, they're Fake News that confuses newbies.
Thanks for saying this. The person who diagnosed me said it was reversible. I am a newbie, and this does make things clearer. Not that a healthy diet isn't a keeper anyway, but there is probably a difference between a diet that helps you lose excess weight and a diet that helps you maintain a healthy weight, so number of carbs will vary according to that?
 
It is.

- Proof: something like half the world's population is now overweight.
- Reason: mass produced processed foods combine sugar and simple carbs with fat. Our bodies have no defence against them. They create cravings so we eat more.
- Answer: eat to satiety on a diet based on proteins, healthy fats and complex carbs such as veg and some fruit; keep other carbs within your personal tolerance limits.
Unfortunately the complex carbs become simple carbs as soon as they are digested - they do not create cravings, they cause the production of insulin to reduce blood glucose which engenders hunger. Cravings are not an illusion or a mental problem they are real physical symptoms of what happens when people believe in 'good carb bad carb' options.
I suspect that the 'bad fats' are also misnamed, as we need saturated fats to make our brains and lots of biologically important substances. Sunflower oil seems to have been why I used to suffer excruciating sunburn.
 
Thanks for saying this. The person who diagnosed me said it was reversible. I am a newbie, and this does make things clearer. Not that a healthy diet isn't a keeper anyway, but there is probably a difference between a diet that helps you lose excess weight and a diet that helps you maintain a healthy weight, so number of carbs will vary according to that?
You might find that @Burylancs is in a minority on this forum in his attitude to the word 'reversing'

I was diagnosed in October with a HbA1c of 89 mmol/mol (very diabetic indeed). The repeat test result came in at 92. At the time I weighed around 101Kg, with a BMI of 34.5. I was put on Metformin (2000mg) and later Dapagliflozin (10mg) per day. Once I learned about the concept of remission and how it works I began trying to lose weight fast.

On January 24th I had another HbA1c test. By the day the blood was drawn I had lost around 12Kg. The result came back at 39 mmol/mol. The meds helped of course, but those meds can't possibly help that much. My GP said it was 'unprecedented', presumably because based on what he learned in medical school, tried-and-tested evidence-based medicine grounded in science from 20+ years ago, he may actually have thought such a drop as virtually unprecedented. It wasn't of course, I just Googled how to do it, read about it on websites like this one, and just did it. I understood that by late January I had reversed insulin resistance in my liver, leading to a huge drop in my fasting blood glucose levels, resulting in a huge drop in my HbA1c. 'Reversed' is a completely valid word to use in this context.

In March I used a Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM), a Libre 2, took screenshots after meals, and later edited them to add some data points. I did the same thing again in June. These two screenshots show my blood glucose levels after eating nearly identical meals.

2 eggs lower carb toast small orange 35 min housework.png2 eggs lower carb toast small orange - June2024.png
These screenshots illustrate the effect of further weight loss, which reduces insulin resistance in adipose tissue somewhat (fat cells), and a (likely) partial recovery of my first-phase insulin response (from my pancreas).

In June I weighed around 72Kg, with a BMI just below 25, having lost around 28% of my body weight. A HbA1c test taken in June came back with a result of 32 mmol/mol. That's 10 points below the prediabetes range and 16 points below the threshold for a diabetes diagnosis. Bear in mind though that I was, and still am, on the meds. The second curve on the second graph, where I had Thai food delivered (with a big but not huge portion of noodles) illustrates that I am definitely not 'cured'. I had to go for a long walk to push my BG levels back down after that meal. The two slices of lower carb (50% reduced) bread I ate along with the little clementine orange might be nearly invisible on a CGM graph from a completely healthy person. I am still a diabetic and I'll never feast on pizza again.

To call this kind of improvement 'Good Control', a term that pre-dates the science that demonstrated how my HbA1c results and the difference between these two graphs is possible, is less than accurate. This kind of change was thought by most doctors to be impossible, ludicrous, up until around 2016. Some likely still believe it is impossible because they're not paying attention to recent science. 'Unprecedented', so long as you don't actually Google it. I would say that I have partially reversed my diabetes. I do not believe complete reversal is possible, there is no 'cure' for me, but to push progression of the disease backwards a fair bit through big weight loss is indeed possible. 'Reversal' is as good a word as any.

For some further information on how all this works, watch this long video interview with Prof Roy Taylor - Link

Very best of luck!
 
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It is.

- Proof: something like half the world's population is now overweight.
- Reason: mass produced processed foods combine sugar and simple carbs with fat. Our bodies have no defence against them. They create cravings so we eat more.
- Answer: eat to satiety on a diet based on proteins, healthy fats and complex carbs such as veg and some fruit; keep other carbs within your personal tolerance limits.
As a geneticist said (Prof Winston ?) ' if all the world smoked, Lung Cancer would clearly be seen to be a genetic condition'.

Does the analogy hold true ?

If all the world was overweight Type 2 Diabetes would clearly be seen to be a genetic condition.

Leaving aside the contention mooted in the 1990s that the genes for Type 2 Diabetes have been so carefully conserved and passed on that they must have been beneficial at some stage of our evolution e.g. in the 'Feast or Famine' conditions of hunter gathering.
 
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I got prediabetew in Feb 24 with 42 but now I’m 35. I want to see if I get it to below 30… but not sure if that’s possible.
......or desirable given the risks of unintended consequences attendant on driving the HbA1c too low by artificial means. Check out Prof. Craig Christies work on Type 2 targets or the traditional issues associated with low-carbing such as kidney problems, cvd, thyroid problems and adrenal fatigue.
 
You might find that @Burylancs is in a minority on this forum in his attitude to the word 'reversing'

I was diagnosed in October with a HbA1c of 89 mmol/mol (very diabetic indeed). The repeat test result came in at 92. At the time I weighed around 101Kg, with a BMI of 34.5. I was put on Metformin (2000mg) and later Dapagliflozin (10mg) per day. Once I learned about the concept of remission and how it works I began trying to lose weight fast.

On January 24th I had another HbA1c test. By the day the blood was drawn I had lost around 12Kg. The result came back at 39 mmol/mol. The meds helped of course, but those meds can't possibly help that much. My GP said it was 'unprecedented', presumably because based on what he learned in medical school, tried-and-tested evidence-based medicine grounded in science from 20+ years ago, he may actually have thought such a drop as virtually unprecedented. It wasn't of course, I just Googled how to do it, read about it on websites like this one, and just did it. I understood that by late January I had reversed insulin resistance in my liver, leading to a huge drop in my fasting blood glucose levels, resulting in a huge drop in my HbA1c. 'Reversed' is a completely valid word to use in this context.

In March I used a Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM), a Libre 2, took screenshots after meals, and later edited them to add some data points. I did the same thing again in June. These two screenshots show my blood glucose levels after eating nearly identical meals.

View attachment 30950View attachment 30951
These screenshots illustrate the effect of further weight loss, which reduces insulin resistance in adipose tissue somewhat (fat cells), and a (likely) partial recovery of my first-phase insulin response (from my pancreas).

In June I weighed around 72Kg, with a BMI just below 25, having lost around 28% of my body weight. A HbA1c test taken in June came back with a result of 32 mmol/mol. That's 10 points below the prediabetes range and 16 points below the threshold for a diabetes diagnosis. Bear in mind though that I was, and still am, on the meds. The second curve on the second graph, where I had Thai food delivered (with a big but not huge portion of noodles) illustrates that I am definitely not 'cured'. I had to go for a long walk to push my BG levels back down after that meal. The two slices of lower carb (50% reduced) bread I ate along with the little clementine orange might be nearly invisible on a CGM graph from a completely healthy person. I am still a diabetic and I'll never feast on pizza again.

To call this kind of improvement 'Good Control', a term that pre-dates the science that demonstrated how my HbA1c results and the difference between these two graphs is possible, is less than accurate. This kind of change was thought by most doctors to be impossible, ludicrous, up until around 2016. Some likely still believe it is impossible because they're not paying attention to recent science. 'Unprecedented', so long as you don't actually Google it. I would say that I have partially reversed my diabetes. I do not believe complete reversal is possible, there is no 'cure' for me, but to push progression of the disease backwards a fair bit through big weight loss is indeed possible. 'Reversal' is as good a word as any.

For some further information on how all this works, watch this long video interview with Prof Roy Taylor - Link

Very best of luck!
Keep an eye on your Big Toes as well as your measuring gadgets, they're useful bellwethers on how things are progressing.
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Denial is not just a river in Egypt tha knows, it's part of the process.
 
David Unwin looked into kidneys as part of his work with low carb diets and the patients who achieved drug free remission of their T2D:


Given the central role of hyperglycaemia in the pathogenesis of DKD it seems logical to suggest a LCD approach, which by its very nature reduces blood glucose, may be beneficial in the management of risk factors impacting on DKD. This review suggests for people with T2D and normal renal function or mild DKD this may well be the case. Our real-world results seem to agree, showing that in addition to a T2D drug-free remission rate for the patients enrolled of 48%, a LCD approach was associated with significant improvements in serum creatinine, eGFR, urine ACR, BP, body weight, and lipid profiles. On balance this review contradicts the notion that LCDs, despite being likely to include higher dietary protein and fat intakes may be harmful to renal health.

Note that this is for patients who don't already have kidney disease.
 
David Unwin looked into kidneys as part of his work with low carb diets and the patients who achieved drug free remission of their T2D:




Note that this is for patients who don't already have kidney disease.
Unwin's evidence seems to be anecdotal evidence gathered over 30 months. The Cochrane Reviews on this subject suggest kidney damage starts on low carb diets at the three year mark. And it also all depends on how 'low carb' is defined.
 
A reference would be useful.
 
Keep an eye on your Big Toes as well as your measuring gadgets, they're useful bellwethers on how things are progressing.
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Denial is not just a river in Egypt tha knows, it's part of the process.
I accept what I assume is your underlying point that improvement in a GGM graph in no guarantee of avoiding complications, though I would prefer to try to prevent neuropathy in the first place, to the greatest extent that such a thing might be possible based on what is known at this time.

I haven't done much reading on neuropathy yet though I have been doing some reading on what an entirely healthy CGM graph looks like and how that might relate to the risk of retinopathy. Firstly, nobody knows for certain whether short high spikes in BG are harmful or not. The best single resource I've found on the subject so far is an opinion piece written by a consultant cardiologist which does helpfully include sample CGM graphs ranging from entirely healthy levels to prediabetic levels. Until such time as large-scale studies using CGMs are completed this kind of article appears to be about the best kind of resource available. Not great. His opinions are interesting but it's the sample graphs that I found most useful - Link

There is a study which appears to show that prediabetes over a period of around 20 years is associated with a risk of around 14% of developing retinopathy - Link Another study analysed the glycaemic thresholds associated with risk of retinopathy - Link The conclusion seems to be that significant retinopathy risk starts at a fasting BG level of around 6.4 to 6.6 mmol/L and a HbA1c of around 46 mmol/mol. The graphs in the second paper show a fairly tight correlation between fasting and HbA1c values and retinopathy risk. The association between postprandial glucose test results and retinopathy risk is much less clear, though estimates are provided.

Based on those three resources - what prediabetes looks like on a CGM graph vs a healthy person, the relative retinopathy risk of a prediabetes vs. a diabetes diagnosis, and what is known about fasting, HbA1c and post-prandial thresholds associated with that risk, it would appear that my recent CGM data in combination with my HbA1c result look pretty good. According to the cardiologist it might not be a good idea to eat that meal of Thai food with noodles and that is certainly not be something I'll be doing every day. Otherwise though, if the available data looks much more like that of an entirely healthy person than a person with prediabetes (as far as anyone knows at this time) I believe it logical to assume that my risk of retinopathy is probably very low at this present time.

Who knows how things will progress in future, though I will absolutely be paying close attention to my measuring gadgets and the best available information rather than waiting for eye damage to occur as my 'bellwether'. I will also be looking for similar information in the context of neuropathy, and as soon as good large-scale CGM studies are completed I'll be going through those with a fine-tooth comb.

Edit - typos.
 
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