Can someone explain… why T2 and Pre can’t go back to a normal diet once…

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Exflex

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…after reversing their HbA1c? It’s a question about the physiology, I guess. I understand that insulin resistance is due to a fatty liver and a fatty pancreas. So why must we continue on a very restricted carb diet for life once the liver and pancreas have lost the fat? Hope my question makes some sense.
Just for clarity, I’m eating a low carb diet (how low I don’t know, but plan to get a weighing device soon), all takeaways, ready meals and as many white carbs as possible eliminated. The next thing to be reduced is the red wine. So be it!

Thank you in advance for any response to this question from all you supportive people out there.
 
Exflex said:
…after reversing their HbA1c? It’s a question about the physiology, I guess. I understand that insulin resistance is due to a fatty liver and a fatty pancreas. So why must we continue on a very restricted carb diet for life once the liver and pancreas have lost the fat? Hope my question makes some sense.
Just for clarity, I’m eating a low carb diet (how low I don’t know, but plan to get a weighing device soon), all takeaways, ready meals and as many white carbs as possible eliminated. The next thing to be reduced is the red wine. So be it!

Thank you in advance for any response to this question from all you supportive people out there.
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If you enjoy the red wine it is low carb so why cut it out. Moderation of course.
Somebody said 'it's not the wine or whisky that is the problem it is if drunk in excess it is what you then are tempted to eat that does the damage' crisps, chips, kebabs?
 
Who said that?

I reversed my T2D via weight loss, my glucose regulation is now "normal" and I don't restrict carbs as such.
 
An interesting question that belies another, more relavent question ... what is a normal diet.

If the normal diet is that that produced the fatty liver and pancreas then it would not be a good place to go. XXX

If a normal diet is the new reduced carb diet then I am not sure that that is what you meant by normal. XXX

My interpretation on this is that reverting to a new diet that will avoid a fatty liver/pancreas is the way to go. So a relaxation of the stricter less carb diet.

But I could be wrong.

In my case I am in remission and my diet is less strict now, slightly relaxed.

Seems to work for me. But. That's me ....

Perhaps the right term is moderation in the diet
 
Exflex said:
…after reversing their HbA1c? It’s a question about the physiology, I guess. I understand that insulin resistance is due to a fatty liver and a fatty pancreas. So why must we continue on a very restricted carb diet for life once the liver and pancreas have lost the fat? Hope my question makes some sense.
Just for clarity, I’m eating a low carb diet (how low I don’t know, but plan to get a weighing device soon), all takeaways, ready meals and as many white carbs as possible eliminated. The next thing to be reduced is the red wine. So be it!

Thank you in advance for any response to this question from all you supportive people out there.
Click to expand...
The general view is that remission doesn't mean cured, only that the symptoms are on pause, as are the risks of complications. That's why it's not called 'reversal' as this might sound like it's permanent, whereas there's no guarantee that it's gone forever.

​

 
Exflex said:
…after reversing their HbA1c? It’s a question about the physiology, I guess. I understand that insulin resistance is due to a fatty liver and a fatty pancreas. So why must we continue on a very restricted carb diet for life once the liver and pancreas have lost the fat? Hope my question makes some sense.
Just for clarity, I’m eating a low carb diet (how low I don’t know, but plan to get a weighing device soon), all takeaways, ready meals and as many white carbs as possible eliminated. The next thing to be reduced is the red wine. So be it!

Thank you in advance for any response to this question from all you supportive people out there.
Click to expand...
As ADA has made clear, there is no such thing as reversing Type 2 Diabetes. In the present state of knowledge, once securely diagnosed there is no going back. Gaining Good Control doesn't mean the fundamentals - genes, Metabolic Syndrome, Insulin Resistance have been changed or removed. The words 'reversing' and 'reversal' shouldn't be allowed on this Support Group, they're Fake News that confuses newbies.
 
Martin.A said:
The general view is that remission doesn't mean cured, only that the symptoms are on pause, as are the risks of complications. That's why it's not called 'reversal' as this might sound like it's permanent, whereas there's no guarantee that it's gone forever.

​

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'remission' doesn't mean anything except that a newbie T2 ( under 6 years) has an a1c under 48 and isn't taking meds. And the 'not taking meds' appears to be a minority OCD diversion.
 
Exflex said:
…after reversing their HbA1c? It’s a question about the physiology, I guess. I understand that insulin resistance is due to a fatty liver and a fatty pancreas. So why must we continue on a very restricted carb diet for life once the liver and pancreas have lost the fat? Hope my question makes some sense.
Just for clarity, I’m eating a low carb diet (how low I don’t know, but plan to get a weighing device soon), all takeaways, ready meals and as many white carbs as possible eliminated. The next thing to be reduced is the red wine. So be it!

Thank you in advance for any response to this question from all you supportive people out there.
Click to expand...
Heh, heh, don't reduce red wine. The resveraterol in it used to be touted as an anti-oxidant that was helpful for diabetics. Although you might need to drink a barrel a day to get the same effects seen in rats in the laboratory.
 
Exflex said:
…after reversing their HbA1c? It’s a question about the physiology, I guess. I understand that insulin resistance is due to a fatty liver and a fatty pancreas. So why must we continue on a very restricted carb diet for life once the liver and pancreas have lost the fat? Hope my question makes some sense.
Just for clarity, I’m eating a low carb diet (how low I don’t know, but plan to get a weighing device soon), all takeaways, ready meals and as many white carbs as possible eliminated. The next thing to be reduced is the red wine. So be it!

Thank you in advance for any response to this question from all you supportive people out there.
Click to expand...
Elevated HBA1c is the symptom. The root cause, i.e. the reason(s) why BG was unable to be sufficiently regulated is a combo of things e.g. insulin resistance and/or compromised insulin production in the pancreas, etc. Modifying diet by reducing carbs helps to reduce the HBA1c elevation - in many cases back to non-diabetic levels but does not necessarily reverse the root causes. It is great that in some cases folks like @Eddy Edson have likely reversed the root causes, but for many (perhaps the majority) of cases, like me, its 'only' the symptom that has been reversed. Of course it is not really 'only', because without an elevated HBA1c my risk of serious complication is statistically very much reduced. This is just my potted understanding as a T2.
 
Martin.A said:
The general view is that remission doesn't mean cured, only that the symptoms are on pause, as are the risks of complications. That's why it's not called 'reversal' as this might sound like it's permanent, whereas there's no guarantee that it's gone forever.

​

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I think that’s important to understand, thank you.
It’s like I had PMR, an autoimmune disease. It is never cured, we’re in remission when the inflammation recedes and off steroids. It can rear its ugly head at any time, as well as its big sister GCA.
 
Being brutally honest, it’s at least 70% psychological for me. I’ve had two very good HbA1c results but I will stay on a low carb diet for the foreseeable.

This is the first time in a very, very long time I actually feel in control of food and food isn’t controlling me. Yes, my BG is in good shape but so is my brain and that’s more than half the battle with me. I don’t ever want to slip back to where I was two years ago!
 
JITR said:
In general, as Jason Fung says, T2D is a dietary disease with a dietary solution.
To keep it at bay, get rid of the excess fat in your liver and pancreas and don't let it come back.
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This strengthens my resolve, thanks.
 
JITR said:
In general, as Jason Fung says, T2D is a dietary disease with a dietary solution.
To keep it at bay, get rid of the excess fat in your liver and pancreas and don't let it come back.
Click to expand...

No it isn't.

It's generally caused by genetics (A LOT of genes have been identified that are involved) that lead to beta cell dysfunction and/or insulin resistance, especially with metabolic syndrome (High cholesterol, high blood pressure, being overweight, etc.) but not always.

Fung's book just repeats what has been known for some time: the low calorie diet people who undergo bariatric surgery have to go on prior to the procedure normalises blood sugars. This is what drove the work done by Taylor in Newcastle, who also looked at changes in insulin secretion. It's also a very simplistic view that ignores the complexities of the disease. There are too many of these grifters out there with books to sell based on simplistic views of complex conditions.
 
harbottle said:
No it isn't.

It's generally caused by genetics (A LOT of genes have been identified that are involved) that lead to beta cell dysfunction and/or insulin resistance, especially with metabolic syndrome (High cholesterol, high blood pressure, being overweight, etc.) but not always.

Fung's book just repeats what has been known for some time: the low calorie diet people who undergo bariatric surgery have to go on prior to the procedure normalises blood sugars. This is what drove the work done by Taylor in Newcastle, who also looked at changes in insulin secretion. It's also a very simplistic view that ignores the complexities of the disease. There are too many of these grifters out there with books to sell based on simplistic views of complex conditions.
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Aye, genetics, the old joke says that if you are dxed with Type 2 Diabetes you just made a poor choice of grandparents.
 
If I went back to the diet advised by my GPs for all the years prior to diagnosis, I'd probably be starting to gain weight in a few days, be feeling tired and lethargic after a couple of weeks and be back on the long dreary trail so many others have travelled because it is such a well known 'fact' that carbs are healthy.
Some people can cope, and others can't - but others go through life oblivious to that and people suffer for it.
 
Exflex said:
Just for clarity, I’m eating a low carb diet (how low I don’t know, but plan to get a weighing device soon), all takeaways, ready meals and as many white carbs as possible eliminated.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you’ve made some very positive changes @Exflex

It seems to me from reading the forum over many years, that those with T2 who have successfully reduced their HbA1c through weight loss tend to focus on a maintenance menu that keeps their weight on target and that helps maintain their glucose levels.

While those with T2 who have used a lower carb approach to reduce their Hba1c (and lost weight in the process) tend to focus on maintaining a lower carb approach to help keep their glucose levels on track, and that seems to help maintain weight.

Good luck with finding a maintenance approach that works for you, once you’ve approached your goals.
 
harbottle said:
No it isn't.

It's generally caused by genetics (A LOT of genes have been identified that are involved) that lead to beta cell dysfunction and/or insulin resistance, especially with metabolic syndrome (High cholesterol, high blood pressure, being overweight, etc.) but not always.

Fung's book just repeats what has been known for some time: the low calorie diet people who undergo bariatric surgery have to go on prior to the procedure normalises blood sugars. This is what drove the work done by Taylor in Newcastle, who also looked at changes in insulin secretion. It's also a very simplistic view that ignores the complexities of the disease. There are too many of these grifters out there with books to sell based on simplistic views of complex conditions.
Click to expand...
Where can I find a reasoned explanation of how genetics caused the weight gain that led to my T2D, and not my diet?
 
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