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Anxious 63

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
A general query here would be grateful for your thoughts , been feeling lousy recently was in hospital 3 months im still getting high reading of BS in the mornings recently its been 12 and 14 which i think is a bit high , had issues recently with pancreatis now constipation and tooth infection , feel absolutely drained and very anxious
 
Hi. Sorry to hear you have been in hospital and still feeling quite rough.
I'm struggling to see what your query is?
Yes 12s and 14s are too high and will be making you prone to infections and can make you feel drained and anxious.
Are you drinking plenty of fluids?
What if any medication are you on for your diabetes?
What are your BG levels like later in the day?
 
Hi, I have just read one of your other posts about you suffering acute necrotizing pancreatitis and wonder if Gliclazide is an appropriate medication in your situation. It works by stimulating your pancreas to produce more insulin but with an ailing pancreas it is akin to flogging a dead horse in my (non medical) opinion. 🙄 I wonder if you are getting to a stage that perhaps you need insulin and possibly Creon if you are suffering constipation (although I believe it can go the other way more often) and that your diabetes type should be upgraded to Type 3c instead of Type 2. Are you under a consultant for the pancreatitis?
I am going to tag @Proud to be erratic who is a very knowledgeable Type 3c to hopefully come and share his experience and thoughts on your situation.
 
I am on creon but there not helping much , i have a follow up in april for my pancreatitis i dont know why they changed the glicazade from empalgfizion that was the diabetic nurse in hospital
 
The constipation is probably due to the codeine as that is well known for causing constipation. The medications you have work in different ways, the empalgfizion (not sure if that's how you spell it) removes excess glucose via urine so important you drink plenty but the gliclazide encourages the pancreas to produce more insulin.
Perhaps you should ask about the logic of the meds from your nurse.
Are you taking the appropriate dose of creon?
 
Taking creon 4 tabs with every meal thats if i can eat , the nurse said to me the Empalgfizion makes you pass more water but i told her that was not happening she seemed puzzled and said i am changing it to glicazide , my head was and still is spinning from all this , do these people really listen
 
Taking creon 4 tabs with every meal thats if i can eat , the nurse said to me the Empalgfizion makes you pass more water but i told her that was not happening she seemed puzzled and said i am changing it to glicazide , my head was and still is spinning from all this , do these people really listen
On that medication I think they recommend drinking at least 3 litres of water a day otherwise you could become dehydrated.
 
What units are the Creon? I wonder if you are taking too much? A bit like insulin, I believe it is individual and you need to find the right dose for your body, but don't quote me on that. Hopefully Roland (@Proud to be erratic) will clarify.

Just to be clear, can you confirm that you have now stopped the Empagliflozin and are taking Gliclazide and Metformin? It is the Empagliflozin which needs plenty of fluids, not Gliclazide, but drinking plenty of water is always a good thing especially if you are constipated, as long as it doesn't become excessive. I wonder if your diabetic nurse is aware of the situation with your necrotizing pancreas. Sometimes I think they see insulin as a last resort rather than a medication which is necessary and essential in certain circumstances.

I really hope we can help you to get the treatment which will make you feel a bit better. My mother had 3 bouts of acute pancreatitis so I know how agonizing it is. Knowing what I do now, I look back and wonder if she didn't get appropriate aftercare and that was why she suffered the health issues she did in later life.
 
yes stopped taking empaglafizion taking glicazde and metformin , the diabetic nurse is a joke at my surgery
 
I did wonder if it was a nurse at the GP practice. You need to be referred to a diabetes specialist clinic with the pancreatic problems you have. You will need to push for that to happen. Unfortunately due to Covid, the hospital diabetes clinicians are really busy as it has increased their workload significantly and they are under a lot of strain, so the sooner you get your surgery to make that referral the better, as it will take time to get an appointment. Alternatively, ask your nurse about starting on insulin and ask why she thinks Gliclazide will work when your pancreas is badly damaged and failing.
Going into an appointment with an understanding of your situation and a list of pertinent questions is helpful when you need more support.
 
Thanks for your concern will try that
Hello @Anxious 63 , sorry to hear you are in such difficulty.

@rebrascora tagged me, I'm T3c following a total pancreatectomy for pancreatic cancer, so I know something about the diabetes perspective, but not very much about pancreatitis - I escaped that bit! I'm not familiar with the detailed effects of Metformin or Gliclazide; but I agree with the logic that taking oral meds that make a damaged pancreas work harder is akin to flogging a dead horse. Insulin, usually by injection, gives respite to an ailing pancreas and my non medical opinion is that insulin should be prescribed to replace, not supplement, the oral meds that stress the pancreas.

You are in an unusual position, needing specialist care for both diabetes and pancreatitis. If you are fortunate enough to come under a Hospital that manages both conditions within the same Department - brilliant. But sometimes these conditions are treated slightly separately and then conflicting advice can occur. I suspect the Nurse that switched you onto Gliclazide was focussed on your apparent T2 diagnosis and not on the pancreatitis that could well mean you are actually T3c.

If that seems like splitting hairs, the type of diabetes is defined by the cause, not the treatment. T1s have an autoimmune deficiency that prevents their bodies from producing their own insulin; hence insulin on prescription. T2s have an abnormally high resistance to insulin; they produce it but their bodies don't manage it well, hence oral meds to get the pancreas to produce even more insulin; then some T2s eventually need insulin injections. T3s, various flavours from a-h, are people whose pancreas has become damaged - mine from its removal, yours from pancreatitis, other for all sorts of reasons - and T3s need insulin from a medical solution, oral or injections. You were categorised as T2 to put you in a category that made prescribing oral meds possible, but that is simplistic and initially excludes you from a prescription of insulin by injection. If you'd been discharged as a T3c that should have kept the full spectrum of diabetes treatment open to you.

About elevated BG:
In the short term 12s and 14s are not ideal, but far from serious if temporary, even if for a few days. In the long term, over weeks and months high BG can lead to permanent damage to the smallest blood vessels and thus organs and extremities. But at 12-14 you are a very long way from that just now, and I would be more concerned if you were at least above 15, when ketones can come into play and become a different problem, or in the 20s - essentially a 'don't go there' (or not for long!) zone for most of us.

One other thing to keep in mind is that there are very many factors that can affect Blood Glucose in diabetic people. Currently 42 factors, but probably still counting. A few are obscure and not relevant right now. A couple are very obvious: the amount of carbohydrates eaten and the availability of insulin to one's body to deal with the glucose from digestion of those carbs. Full hydration is important, (see below). Stress elevates BG and stress embraces:
the daily events that make one angry, upset or anxious;​
medical ailments that cause the body to fight those ailments;​
and emotions, such as watching a horror movie or a TV thriller.​
You've had a tooth infection; that would be likely to raise your BG, as possibly would any antibiotics. You are constipated and that is enduringly stressful and you've said you are anxious - perfectly normal (so would I be).
So anything you can do to de-stress yourself will always be beneficial; easy said, I know, but worth remembering and trying to do. There are a number of relaxation techniques that can be found on the internet; I've recently tried Mindfulness, which I originally dismissed as namby-pamby stuff for others but not me and I now admit I was wrong; it works for me!

About hydration:
For years my GP had been telling me after blood tests that I wasn't drinking enough water. Now, because of the diabetes and that I have the Libre 2 sensor with an app that provides continuous glucose monitoring, I can promptly see the benefit in reducing my BG after drinking a large glass of water. The higher your BG the more your body tries to offload the excess glucose, by urinating. That, as a natural consequence starts to dehydrate you and at the same time increasing the concentration of glucose in your blood stream. Catch 22. I can only advise you to drink lots (and lots) of water or decaffeinated liquids; normal tea and coffee make dehydration worse - unfortunately, because I love my frothy coffee! Staying fully hydrated will help lower your BG.

If a medication that should help you pass more water isn't working, I'm afraid the obvious conclusion is that you aren't drinking enough water! Drink enough and that should resolve itself. Unless there is a blockage from something like your prostrate, which is initially an Urgent GP appointment matter. Or a trip to A&E. There are non-invasive ways of diagnosing this and moderately simple ways of emptying an over full bladder, eg a catheter.

About Creon:
Creon is a Pancreatic Enzyme Replacement Treatment (PERT). I have been assured by my original surgeon in Oxford, 3 different Endocrinologists, a Gastroenterologist and a singularly competent dietician that you can not take too much Creon! I was recently described as taking it in industrial quantities and I had steadily increased my dosage until my stools had a normal shape and colour and the output was not unduly offensive. The important thing was to try and ensure I was fully digesting all that I ate and that counted carbs taken in ended up in my blood as glucose. Malabsorption was confusing the carb counting and insulin dosing.

Now I'm through that phase I'm just very gradually reducing my Creon capsules. Very roughly I take 1 capsule for every 10gms of carbohydrate, although there is NO mathematical relationship between Creon and carbs. It is just a simplistic way that I use to guestimate how many capsules per meal. I am an omnivore and fortunate enough to be at an ideal weight, so my diet is high in carbs, proteins and fats.

I also take Omeprazole, 2x daily, which is a Proton Pump Inhibitor (PPI) that reduces my natural stomach acid. I had understood this is a medication frequently prescribed in connection with pancreatitis.

Conclusion:
After digesting all of this ramble, you might want to consider not waiting until an undefined date in April for a Pancreatitis consult but seeking an URGENT diabetes referral with an Endocrinologist, for your diabetes, specifically to confirm that you aren't actually T2 but T3c, with a Pancreas damaged by pancreatitis and that oral medications such as Gliclazide aren't appropriate. You possibly can do this by speaking again with your DSN who changed you onto Gliclazide; or by going back to your GP and asking for that Urgent referral. You can also ask your GP to prescribe a decent laxative.

I hope some of this helps.
 
Hello again @Anxious 63 . Just been reading back more carefully and realised that so far you are under the GP and a nurse from the Practice. As @rebrascora has already said you need to be under a Specialist Diabetes team.

Because you've been categorised as T2 it is highly unlikely that your Surgery will ever be well placed to manage your dual problems of pancreatitis and diabetes. I now fully understand why the practice nurse just switched you to Glic; that would be the default response for a Practice nurse.

Of the approx 4.75 million diabetics in UK, some 90% are T2 so, in line with NHS guidance, T2s are managed by GP surgeries. GP Surgeries often have one person in the Practice who deals with diabetes and sometimes, rather misleadingly, can be referred to as the diabetes nurse. In a way that is true, but the experience will be solely with T2s and those will seldom be on insulin. The remaing 10% T1s and other insulin dependent diabetics are dealt with by Specialist Centres and inevitably GP Surgeries aren't enmeshed in the detail of T1 treatment.

I think this makes it more important that you seek an Urgent referral to a Specialist Diabetes Centre. If your GP is reluctant, ask if your records and hospital notes show any evidence of testing your current insulin production; if not then that needs doing. If still reluctant you need a 2nd opinion. It shouldn't be difficult to refer you and get the initial diagnosis sorted. But it might be, since GPs are under strong guidance from their CCG and the NHS to slow down referrals and make space for the Specialists to clear the backlog, which reflects badly on the statistics! Be polite, but robust. Get this aspect of your diagnosis and medication verified. At the very least you need proof that you have high insulin resistance and thus fit the criteria for a T2 diagnosis; whereas damage to your pancreas should make you T3c. It might not be easy, my GP was initially reluctant to accept that I was T3c, but at least I was grouped with T1s (which blatantly was wrong).

Good luck.
 
thanks for all your replies i will ask about the type 3 diabetes diagnosis i spoke with my gp and he said my recent bloods shown 3 month level to be 6.4 for BG , he also said my liver enzeymes had come down dramitcally to 74 having been 177 before i was admittted to hospital . this though is surely the result of having no alcohol for 18 weeks i think
 
Mind you he did say the bloods were ok before i was admitted so i am a bit suspicious
 
@Proud to be erratic don't know whether to be impressed or horrified by your signature. You've been through the wars & still retaining a sense of humour!
Thank you @Christy, and I don't know whether to be impressed or horrified that you bothered to read it!!
I'm both flattered yet embarrassed by your kind observation. Our children get their natural humour from their mother. My claim to fame is that I laugh at my own jokes - usually before I have delivered the punchline.
 
Thank you @Christy, and I don't know whether to be impressed or horrified that you bothered to read it!!
I'm both flattered yet embarrassed by your kind observation. Our children get their natural humour from their mother. My claim to fame is that I laugh at my own jokes - usually before I have delivered the punchline.
Who needs jokes when you possess wry wit!
 
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