Bloods Spiking

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@Purls of Wisdom You are clearly not using enough insulin if your levels are that high and you are being careful with your diet. You need to get back in touch with the DSN about increasing your doses. I believe you were given the go ahead to use correction doses of quick acting (bolus) insulin.... Have you been using those to bring your levels down? If so and they are still remaining high then it is likely that your basal insulin doses are not enough and need increasing.
please push for more help from a DSN not a GP.

PS. Sending (((HUGS))) because you clearly need them.
Thanks Barbara, for your kind words. The amount of insulin suggested to me keeps changing. The so called correction doses were changed back to 1:10 ratio with breakfast ratio is 1:5. All this contradictory advice makes me more confused if nothing else.
I was also politely advised that the patients are usually left alone after a month to work things out for themselves. I could ve cried hearing this. There was me, 4 months on, still struggling and none the wiser. I had no choice but to turn to GP who at least did not fob me off with the phrase ' you are doing great for the stage you are at'. I am very vary of trying different foods cos hugely diabetes friendly foods are keeping me higher than mid teens to high twenties. What chances do I have to experiment? I am constantly hungry, longing for food and I am sure that can not be good for the glucose levels.

I ve an appointment with DSN and Dietian tomorrow morning. Not sure how I feel about it or what to expect. Whatever it is; it's got to be better than recent past few days!

Thanking you once again.
 
Sorry you are having such a tough time @Purls of Wisdom

Have your doses / ratios / correction factors been adjusted since they were first suggested? Often the initial suggestions are just that - suggestions based on educated guesswork or basic rules of thumb… but these almost always need to be adjusted and amended to suit the individual.
Apart from initial set doses, my insulin doses are only tweaked by 1 or 2u, where as BG levels have sky rocketted. Hope someone explains this to me soon. I ve just changed my Libre2, so ended up finger pricking before dinner. The reading read 20.1mmol/L. I am going to wait for 30mins in the hope that it magically works.

Failing that the term 'Secondary faliure' comes to mind.
 
Sorry you are having such a tough time @Purls of Wisdom

Have your doses / ratios / correction factors been adjusted since they were first suggested? Often the initial suggestions are just that - suggestions based on educated guesswork or basic rules of thumb… but these almost always need to be adjusted and amended to suit the individual.
The new Sensor pinged and it reads 15.8mmol/L. Still high in my opinion, specially when it is 45mins after injecting NR.
 
Thanks Barbara, for your kind words. The amount of insulin suggested to me keeps changing. The so called correction doses were changed back to 1:10 ratio with breakfast ratio is 1:5. All this contradictory advice makes me more confused if nothing else.
I was also politely advised that the patients are usually left alone after a month to work things out for themselves. I could ve cried hearing this. There was me, 4 months on, still struggling and none the wiser. I had no choice but to turn to GP who at least did not fob me off with the phrase ' you are doing great for the stage you are at'. I am very vary of trying different foods cos hugely diabetes friendly foods are keeping me higher than mid teens to high twenties. What chances do I have to experiment? I am constantly hungry, longing for food and I am sure that can not be good for the glucose levels.

I ve an appointment with DSN and Dietian tomorrow morning. Not sure how I feel about it or what to expect. Whatever it is; it's got to be better than recent past few days!

Thanking you once again.
Insulin doses do keep changing. I need to change my basal on an almost daily basis.
Corrections are different to meal ratios. Corrections are extra amounts of insulin that you give yourself to bring your levels down. They usually start you off with a correction factor of 1 unit drops your levels by 3mmols. That works well for some people but it might drop some people 4 or 5 mmols and others just 1 or 2. The way this works is that if your levels are say at 15 in the morning when you wake up. Ideally you would want to have a BG of about 6. 15 is 9 units higher than 6, so you would like to drop your BG by 9mmols to come down to 6. If 1 unit of fast acting insulin (I think you have NovoRapid don't you?) drops you 3mmols then you will need 3 units to drop you 9mmols..... So if you were on 15 and you injected 3 units of NovoRapid, using a correction factor of 3, then you would hope to be down to 6 in 4-5 hours time when that insulin has done it's magic. If you are also eating breakfast then you would calculate the amount of insulin you needed for breakfast using your carb ratio and then add the extra 3 units to that so that by lunchtime your levels should have come down more into range.... ideally near a BG of 6 if your ratios and correction factor are right and your Levemir is the right dose and holding you steady. If however your Levemir dose is not enough then your levels will be constantly rising and you will need more and more correction units with each meal to try to stay in range. Therefore, if you are regularly needing corrections then your Levemir dose needs increasing. This happens quite a bit in the "honeymoon period" when your beta cells are dying off and you have to keep increasing the dose until levels come down into range.

There is no reason why you should go hungry, but you do need to learn to increase and decrease your doses of insulin carefully to cover what you eat and keep your levels in range.

I hope you have a useful appointment with the DSN and dietician tomorrow. Do explain to them how lost and frustrated you are with it all and explain to them how restricted you feel with your diet. Hopefully they will help you to adjust your doses and get levels into range. Having high levels makes you feel tired and anxious and horrid, so a big part of how you are feeling is because your levels are so high. Let us know how you get on but do please be really open with them about how you are struggling and need more help.
Also, ring the Diabetes UK helpline (open during office hours) and ask them for help too.
 
Apart from initial set doses, my insulin doses are only tweaked by 1 or 2u, where as BG levels have sky rocketted. Hope someone explains this to me soon. I ve just changed my Libre2, so ended up finger pricking before dinner. The reading read 20.1mmol/L. I am going to wait for 30mins in the hope that it magically works.

Failing that the term 'Secondary faliure' comes to mind.

Sounds like you’ve not had anything like enough guidance to help you. :( :( :(

Would an introduction like this be helpful?

 
Sounds like you’ve not had anything like enough guidance to help you. :( :( :(

Would an introduction like this be helpful?

So rightly put. I do feel the same as if I ve been left with no knowledge and little support. Honestly speaking I would not be able to survive without this forum, its practical, knowledgeable and kind members. So, thankful. Regards. X
 
Insulin doses do keep changing. I need to change my basal on an almost daily basis.
Corrections are different to meal ratios. Corrections are extra amounts of insulin that you give yourself to bring your levels down. They usually start you off with a correction factor of 1 unit drops your levels by 3mmols. That works well for some people but it might drop some people 4 or 5 mmols and others just 1 or 2. The way this works is that if your levels are say at 15 in the morning when you wake up. Ideally you would want to have a BG of about 6. 15 is 9 units higher than 6, so you would like to drop your BG by 9mmols to come down to 6. If 1 unit of fast acting insulin (I think you have NovoRapid don't you?) drops you 3mmols then you will need 3 units to drop you 9mmols..... So if you were on 15 and you injected 3 units of NovoRapid, using a correction factor of 3, then you would hope to be down to 6 in 4-5 hours time when that insulin has done it's magic. If you are also eating breakfast then you would calculate the amount of insulin you needed for breakfast using your carb ratio and then add the extra 3 units to that so that by lunchtime your levels should have come down more into range.... ideally near a BG of 6 if your ratios and correction factor are right and your Levemir is the right dose and holding you steady. If however your Levemir dose is not enough then your levels will be constantly rising and you will need more and more correction units with each meal to try to stay in range. Therefore, if you are regularly needing corrections then your Levemir dose needs increasing. This happens quite a bit in the "honeymoon period" when your beta cells are dying off and you have to keep increasing the dose until levels come down into range.

There is no reason why you should go hungry, but you do need to learn to increase and decrease your doses of insulin carefully to cover what you eat and keep your levels in range.

I hope you have a useful appointment with the DSN and dietician tomorrow. Do explain to them how lost and frustrated you are with it all and explain to them how restricted you feel with your diet. Hopefully they will help you to adjust your doses and get levels into range. Having high levels makes you feel tired and anxious and horrid, so a big part of how you are feeling is because your levels are so high. Let us know how you get on but do please be really open with them about how you are struggling and need more help.
Also, ring the Diabetes UK helpline (open during office hours) and ask them for help too.
Dear Barbara, thank you for your detailed response. I am somewhat aware of the workings of Bolus and Basal insulins but it does not seem to be working for me in real life.
For me, time in range suggested is 75% and Glucose average is 10mmol/L. I was told how to do corrections, it was 1u for 3mmols initially and then I was advised to use 1u for 2mmols. This brings me to 2 questions - what to do when spike is 5.4mmol/L or 6.4mmol/L? How many extra units you would suggest? How many units of NR can be increased in one go? Like Bolus is increased or decreased by 1 or 2u at a time? In my case, it can be almost double or treble increase. More over how much insulin is too much? How long is the proverbial honeymoon period? Which insulin covers the mid morning and late afternoon snacks?

My summer hols finished a week ago. In 5 working days, I took 4 hypos. First 2 days it was around mid day. On the third day, I took a slow releasing carb snack. It worked but only till 3:00pm. Same happened on Friday. I finger pricked to double check. To my utter astonishment, it was showing 6.2mmol/L. I had all the symptoms of a hypo such as feeling hollow, shaking and dizzy. Many times I do wonder if I am even normal or one of a kind, strange specimen? Why nothing is simple, straight forward when it comes to me?

I appreciate what nhs does unconditionally and with a smile on their faces. I would hate to be a nuisance by harassing them even if it affects my physical and mental health. I must become more assertive in order to get on top of my plight regarding health issues.

Wish me luck for tomorrow morning; I need it in heaps.
Stay happy and healthy!
 
Sounds like you’ve not had anything like enough guidance to help you. :( :( :(

Would an introduction like this be helpful?


How many carbs do you think a T1 sufferer should eat in a day, who does not need to lose weight? I am already 2 dress sizes down since diagnosis. Could you also suggest a few diabetes friendly snacks, which are <15g in carbs? I am not sure if Digestives (15g carbs) are one, only and most suitable to go to snack. I dare not take a snack cos my readings are high as it is.

Thanking you from the bottom of my heart.
Humble regards. X
 
For me, time in range suggested is 75% and Glucose average is 10mmol/L.
Is that what you are achieving or your target.... or both?
This brings me to 2 questions - what to do when spike is 5.4mmol/L or 6.4mmol/L?
What do you mean by a spike? Do you mean an increase between your premeal reading and your 2 hour post meal reading? If so, thinking in these terms with insulin use is not helpful. Novorapid takes about 4-5 hours to totally work, so you are not really interested in doing anything about an increase of 5 or 6 except maybe prebolus a bit earlier so that the insulin has the chance to get absorbed and working as the food is digested and releasing the glucose. This timing is different for everyone and will depend on the time of day and the type of food and is very much a question of trial and error, but at this stage timing of your bolus and/or an increase of 6mmols is not something to be concerned about as long as it goes back down by the next meal.
You seem to be trying to control your diabetes through diet and trying to follow the advice for that when you are insulin dependent and therefore that doesn't apply. Your levels are far too high and you are losing weight and hungry because you are not eating enough and not giving yourself the insulin to cover it.

How many extra units you would suggest? How many units of NR can be increased in one go?

If this is just the rise after a meal then I would not suggest any extra units until the next meal and assess then if a correction is needed and then work out how many correction units you need with your 2mmol correction factor, you need to bring you back into range.
So if you start the day on 6 then spike up to 12 and come back down to about 6 by lunchtime then that was really good and you don't need to take any action, but if you went up to 12 and stayed there or went up to 15 or16 and then came down to 12 by lunchtime then you are about 6 units higher than ideal, so with your correction factor of 2, you would add 3 correction units to your lunchtime meal bolus (12-6=6 and you would need 3 units of NR to drop your levels 6mmols with a correction factor of 2 ie 3x2=6) , even if you were only having 10g carbs and therefore 1 unit of NR (with a 1:10g ratio) for the meal, so you would give yourself 4 units total in that scenario. If your levels were 20 at lunchtime and you were just going to have 10g carbs then 20-6=14 and 7X2=14.... so you would need 7 units for the correction and 1 for the food. It doesn't matter that the correction of 7 is much bigger than 1, you need that extra insulin to bring your levels down. If you were going to have 80g of carbs for lunch with a meal ratio of 1:10 then you would add the correction to that 8 units for the meal and that would be 15units of insulin (8 for the meal+7 for the correction if your BG was 20 for your premeal reading) to bring your levels down into range again.
More over how much insulin is too much?
Too much insulin is when you hypo....simple as! It happens to the best of us for a variety of reasons. Miscalculation, increased activity, honeymoon period when own pancreas chucks some insulin into our blood stream after we have injected the correct amount, hot weather making us more insulin sensitive, hormones.... loads of reasons....
No one said it was easy 🙄

During the last heat wave I had 4 days in a row when I had 2-4 hypos each day despite reducing my basal insulin by 2-3 units each day to try to prevent them. Hypos happen sometimes despite our best efforts and whilst it is not ideal, accepting that hypos are part of insulin usage and it isn't necessarily a failure on your part is important. I naively thought that 1 or 2 hypos a year was what I might expect and panicked when I had 2 in a fortnight in the first few months of using insulin. A very kind member of this forum said that she regularly had 2 hypos a day. That really put things into perspective for me. Having realistic expectations is important. I consider I have good diabetes management but I have 3-4 hypos a week of 7-10 if you believe Libre 🙄. It is a very fine balance and sometimes we don't get it quite right.
How long is the proverbial honeymoon period?
Can be a few weeks or months up to several years. It is very individual. I had 3 distinct stages to my honeymoon period where it was obvious that I needed more basal insulin. The first was about 6months from diagnosis, then about a year and then what I think was the final stage was after my first Covid vaccine and my insulin needs almost doubled over the 3 months following that vaccine..... then it levelled out and has been more or less the same since then apart from needing to reduce by 9 units over that last hot spell but now back up to full dose again.
Which insulin covers the mid morning and late afternoon snacks?
At this stage it would be best to eat bigger meals and not snack between meals until you have more experience at managing your levels with insulin..... or stick to low carb snacks like a chunk of cheese or a boiled egg. Once you get confident using your bolus insulin you can inject extra insulin to cover snacks between meals but it can be confusing until you get the hang of managing main meals so try to have bigger meals and no or low carb snacks for now.

There is no need to go hungry so make some nice big meals, count the carbs, inject your insulin to cover them and fill yourself up on them so that you don't need snacks between meals.
My summer hols finished a week ago. In 5 working days, I took 4 hypos. First 2 days it was around mid day. On the third day, I took a slow releasing carb snack. It worked but only till 3:00pm. Same happened on Friday. I finger pricked to double check. To my utter astonishment, it was showing 6.2mmol/L. I had all the symptoms of a hypo such as feeling hollow, shaking and dizzy. Many times I do wonder if I am even normal or one of a kind, strange specimen? Why nothing is simple, straight forward when it comes to me?
If this was during the very hot spell then many of us had problems with hypos as I have mentioned above. I reduced my Levemir by 2-3 units each day to try to prevent them but it still wasn't enough and I hypoed multiple times each day. That is not a failing on my part. I took the right action and I am sure if would have been a lot worse if I hadn't done that, but it was quite extreme heat and I was out in it a lot of the time.
Feeling hypo at 6.2 could be because your levels had been quite high and came crashing down very quickly so that even though you weren't actually hypo, your body can sense BG dropping fast and gets twitchy and releases hormones to rectify the problem. Or the other option may be that you were actually hypo but you had something on your fingers which contaminated the blood.... This has happened to me on one occasion when I had been chopping onions, but also fruit or even just handling a jam jar that might have a tiny smear down the side.... If your test doesn't correspond with how you feel, you should always retest.

I used to feel exactly like you, that my diabetes didn't make sense and I wasn't normal like other people, but what you have to understand is that there is a very broad spectrum of what is normal. It takes time to understand how your body works with food and insulin and none of us are the same. You will eventually find some sort of balance and a way to make your insulins work for you (hopefully with some more support and guidance from the nurse and dietician later today and you will be able to eat more or less what you want and when you want and get reasonable results afterwards once you get more experience, but the two things I would say are..... don't be frightened to use your insulin (calculate how much you need, double check and then inject it without worrying how much it is more than usual, if your levels are high or you are having a big meal, then you will need it.....and don't be put off by making mistakes or having hypos. You learn more from mistakes than you do from success and hypos are just a part of diabetes management. The more you have the more confident you get at managing them and whilst of course you try to avoid them, don't feel you are doing anything wrong when they happen.
 
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Is that what you are achieving or your target.... or both?

What do you mean by a spike? Do you mean an increase between your premeal reading and your 2 hour post meal reading? If so, thinking in these terms with insulin use is not helpful. Novorapid takes about 4-5 hours to totally work, so you are not really interested in doing anything about an increase of 5 or 6 except maybe prebolus a bit earlier so that the insulin has the chance to get absorbed and working as the food is digested and releasing the glucose. This timing is different for everyone and will depend on the time of day and the type of food and is very much a question of trial and error, but at this stage timing of your bolus and/or an increase of 6mmols is not something to be concerned about as long as it goes back down by the next meal.
You seem to be trying to control your diabetes through diet and trying to follow the advice for that when you are insulin dependent and therefore that doesn't apply. Your levels are far too high and you are losing weight and hungry because you are not eating enough and not giving yourself the insulin to cover it.



If this is just the rise after a meal then I would not suggest any extra units until the next meal and assess then if a correction is needed and then work out how many correction units you need with your 2mmol correction factor, you need to bring you back into range.
So if you start the day on 6 then spike up to 12 and come back down to about 6 by lunchtime then that was really good and you don't need to take any action, but if you went up to 12 and stayed there or went up to 15 or16 and then came down to 12 by lunchtime then you are about 6 units higher than ideal, so with your correction factor of 2, you would add 3 correction units to your lunchtime meal bolus (12-6=6 and you would need 3 units of NR to drop your levels 6mmols with a correction factor of 2 ie 3x2=6) , even if you were only having 10g carbs and therefore 1 unit of NR (with a 1:10g ratio) for the meal, so you would give yourself 4 units total in that scenario. If your levels were 20 at lunchtime and you were just going to have 10g carbs then 20-6=14 and 7X2=14.... so you would need 7 units for the correction and 1 for the food. It doesn't matter that the correction of 7 is much bigger than 1, you need that extra insulin to bring your levels down. If you were going to have 80g of carbs for lunch with a meal ratio of 1:10 then you would add the correction to that 8 units for the meal and that would be 15units of insulin (8 for the meal+7 for the correction if your BG was 20 for your premeal reading) to bring your levels down into range again.

Too much insulin is when you hypo....simple as! It happens to the best of us for a variety of reasons. Miscalculation, increased activity, honeymoon period when own pancreas chucks some insulin into our blood stream after we have injected the correct amount, hot weather making us more insulin sensitive, hormones.... loads of reasons....
No one said it was easy 🙄

During the last heat wave I had 4 days in a row when I had 2-4 hypos each day despite reducing my basal insulin by 2-3 units each day to try to prevent them. Hypos happen sometimes despite our best efforts and whilst it is not ideal, accepting that hypos are part of insulin usage and it isn't necessarily a failure on your part is important. I naively thought that 1 or 2 hypos a year was what I might expect and panicked when I had 2 in a fortnight in the first few months of using insulin. A very kind member of this forum said that she regularly had 2 hypos a day. That really put things into perspective for me. Having realistic expectations is important. I consider I have good diabetes management but I have 3-4 hypos a week of 7-10 if you believe Libre 🙄. It is a very fine balance and sometimes we don't get it quite right.

Can be a few weeks or months up to several years. It is very individual. I had 3 distinct stages to my honeymoon period where it was obvious that I needed more basal insulin. The first was about 6months from diagnosis, then about a year and then what I think was the final stage was after my first Covid vaccine and my insulin needs almost doubled over the 3 months following that vaccine..... then it levelled out and has been more or less the same since then apart from needing to reduce by 9 units over that last hot spell but now back up to full dose again.

At this stage it would be best to eat bigger meals and not snack between meals until you have more experience at managing your levels with insulin..... or stick to low carb snacks like a chunk of cheese or a boiled egg. Once you get confident using your bolus insulin you can inject extra insulin to cover snacks between meals but it can be confusing until you get the hang of managing main meals so try to have bigger meals and no or low carb snacks for now.

There is no need to go hungry so make some nice big meals, count the carbs, inject your insulin to cover them and fill yourself up on them so that you don't need snacks between meals.

If this was during the very hot spell then many of us had problems with hypos as I have mentioned above. I reduced my Levemir by 2-3 units each day to try to prevent them but it still wasn't enough and I hypoed multiple times each day. That is not a failing on my part. I took the right action and I am sure if would have been a lot worse if I hadn't done that, but it was quite extreme heat and I was out in it a lot of the time.
Feeling hypo at 6.2 could be because your levels had been quite high and came crashing down very quickly so that even though you weren't actually hypo, your body can sense BG dropping fast and gets twitchy and releases hormones to rectify the problem. Or the other option may be that you were actually hypo but you had something on your fingers which contaminated the blood.... This has happened to me on one occasion when I had been chopping onions, but also fruit or even just handling a jam jar that might have a tiny smear down the side.... If your test doesn't correspond with how you feel, you should always retest.

I used to feel exactly like you, that my diabetes didn't make sense and I wasn't normal like other people, but what you have to understand is that there is a very broad spectrum of what is normal. It takes time to understand how your body works with food and insulin and none of us are the same. You will eventually find some sort of balance and a way to make your insulins work for you (hopefully with some more support and guidance from the nurse and dietician later today and you will be able to eat more or less what you want and when you want and get reasonable results afterwards once you get more experience, but the two things I would say are..... don't be frightened to use your insulin (calculate how much you need, double check and then inject it without worrying how much it is more than usual, if your levels are high or you are having a big meal, then you will need it.....and don't be put off by making mistakes or having hypos. You learn more from mistakes than you do from success and hypos are just a part of diabetes management. The more you have the more confident you get at managing them and whilst of course you try to avoid them, don't feel you are doing anything wrong when they happen.
That is an amazingly clear explanation and I hope it helps @Purls of Wisdom get a better understanding of the calculations.
 
Is that what you are achieving or your target.... or both?

What do you mean by a spike? Do you mean an increase between your premeal reading and your 2 hour post meal reading? If so, thinking in these terms with insulin use is not helpful. Novorapid takes about 4-5 hours to totally work, so you are not really interested in doing anything about an increase of 5 or 6 except maybe prebolus a bit earlier so that the insulin has the chance to get absorbed and working as the food is digested and releasing the glucose. This timing is different for everyone and will depend on the time of day and the type of food and is very much a question of trial and error, but at this stage timing of your bolus and/or an increase of 6mmols is not something to be concerned about as long as it goes back down by the next meal.
You seem to be trying to control your diabetes through diet and trying to follow the advice for that when you are insulin dependent and therefore that doesn't apply. Your levels are far too high and you are losing weight and hungry because you are not eating enough and not giving yourself the insulin to cover it.



If this is just the rise after a meal then I would not suggest any extra units until the next meal and assess then if a correction is needed and then work out how many correction units you need with your 2mmol correction factor, you need to bring you back into range.
So if you start the day on 6 then spike up to 12 and come back down to about 6 by lunchtime then that was really good and you don't need to take any action, but if you went up to 12 and stayed there or went up to 15 or16 and then came down to 12 by lunchtime then you are about 6 units higher than ideal, so with your correction factor of 2, you would add 3 correction units to your lunchtime meal bolus (12-6=6 and you would need 3 units of NR to drop your levels 6mmols with a correction factor of 2 ie 3x2=6) , even if you were only having 10g carbs and therefore 1 unit of NR (with a 1:10g ratio) for the meal, so you would give yourself 4 units total in that scenario. If your levels were 20 at lunchtime and you were just going to have 10g carbs then 20-6=14 and 7X2=14.... so you would need 7 units for the correction and 1 for the food. It doesn't matter that the correction of 7 is much bigger than 1, you need that extra insulin to bring your levels down. If you were going to have 80g of carbs for lunch with a meal ratio of 1:10 then you would add the correction to that 8 units for the meal and that would be 15units of insulin (8 for the meal+7 for the correction if your BG was 20 for your premeal reading) to bring your levels down into range again.

Too much insulin is when you hypo....simple as! It happens to the best of us for a variety of reasons. Miscalculation, increased activity, honeymoon period when own pancreas chucks some insulin into our blood stream after we have injected the correct amount, hot weather making us more insulin sensitive, hormones.... loads of reasons....
No one said it was easy 🙄

During the last heat wave I had 4 days in a row when I had 2-4 hypos each day despite reducing my basal insulin by 2-3 units each day to try to prevent them. Hypos happen sometimes despite our best efforts and whilst it is not ideal, accepting that hypos are part of insulin usage and it isn't necessarily a failure on your part is important. I naively thought that 1 or 2 hypos a year was what I might expect and panicked when I had 2 in a fortnight in the first few months of using insulin. A very kind member of this forum said that she regularly had 2 hypos a day. That really put things into perspective for me. Having realistic expectations is important. I consider I have good diabetes management but I have 3-4 hypos a week of 7-10 if you believe Libre 🙄. It is a very fine balance and sometimes we don't get it quite right.

Can be a few weeks or months up to several years. It is very individual. I had 3 distinct stages to my honeymoon period where it was obvious that I needed more basal insulin. The first was about 6months from diagnosis, then about a year and then what I think was the final stage was after my first Covid vaccine and my insulin needs almost doubled over the 3 months following that vaccine..... then it levelled out and has been more or less the same since then apart from needing to reduce by 9 units over that last hot spell but now back up to full dose again.

At this stage it would be best to eat bigger meals and not snack between meals until you have more experience at managing your levels with insulin..... or stick to low carb snacks like a chunk of cheese or a boiled egg. Once you get confident using your bolus insulin you can inject extra insulin to cover snacks between meals but it can be confusing until you get the hang of managing main meals so try to have bigger meals and no or low carb snacks for now.

There is no need to go hungry so make some nice big meals, count the carbs, inject your insulin to cover them and fill yourself up on them so that you don't need snacks between meals.

If this was during the very hot spell then many of us had problems with hypos as I have mentioned above. I reduced my Levemir by 2-3 units each day to try to prevent them but it still wasn't enough and I hypoed multiple times each day. That is not a failing on my part. I took the right action and I am sure if would have been a lot worse if I hadn't done that, but it was quite extreme heat and I was out in it a lot of the time.
Feeling hypo at 6.2 could be because your levels had been quite high and came crashing down very quickly so that even though you weren't actually hypo, your body can sense BG dropping fast and gets twitchy and releases hormones to rectify the problem. Or the other option may be that you were actually hypo but you had something on your fingers which contaminated the blood.... This has happened to me on one occasion when I had been chopping onions, but also fruit or even just handling a jam jar that might have a tiny smear down the side.... If your test doesn't correspond with how you feel, you should always retest.

I used to feel exactly like you, that my diabetes didn't make sense and I wasn't normal like other people, but what you have to understand is that there is a very broad spectrum of what is normal. It takes time to understand how your body works with food and insulin and none of us are the same. You will eventually find some sort of balance and a way to make your insulins work for you (hopefully with some more support and guidance from the nurse and dietician later today and you will be able to eat more or less what you want and when you want and get reasonable results afterwards once you get more experience, but the two things I would say are..... don't be frightened to use your insulin (calculate how much you need, double check and then inject it without worrying how much it is more than usual, if your levels are high or you are having a big meal, then you will need it.....and don't be put off by making mistakes or having hypos. You learn more from mistakes than you do from success and hypos are just a part of diabetes management. The more you have the more confident you get at managing them and whilst of course you try to avoid them, don't feel you are doing anything wrong when they happen.
Back from the Grey Clinic. DSN has changed the Levemir doses. The infection is definitely the cause of recent spikes. No corrections as yet. The Dietian cleared a few questions regarding NovoRapid. Making meals much more pleasant and variable. The DSN found little pockets of insulin in my stomach. This could be the reason of sudden spikes same as sudden burst of insulin from the little knots can be the reason for hypos. Next appt in 4 weeks.
 
It sounds like you’re feeling a little happier @Purls of Wisdom About the meals, at least. That’s interesting about the pouches of insulin and might explain some of your erratic results. How did the DSN find them?
 
That’s interesting about the pouches of insulin and might explain some of your erratic results. How did the DSN find them?

That's the leading question, DSNs and consultants have consistently told me ever since they told me it could be that some 20 or so years ago - that there's no way of predicting whether anyone has them or where they might be. Lantus was always a leading supplier of these, but everyone thinks that's because of the crystalline properties of it. Very very unusual to have it happen in anyone so very newly diagnosed though, don't think I've heard it mentioned by anyone this new before. Blooming things have always been a random possibility even with the animal insulins but that was really mega rare in those days.

Anyone know if they've revised what they used to say, ie that they could hang round for up to 12 years before they decided to release and send you mega hypo? - or might not ever release and just stay there gradully becoming less effective with age!
 
Do you think it’s something about the GM insulins that make the pouches more likely @trophywench ? (You said they were mega-rare with animal insulins) Do you know if you can get them in other places apart from your stomach? I always wonder if it’s something to do with an individual’s skin composition.
 
I have on a few occasions had a noticeable lump after I injected my insulin and was concerned this was a "pouch" (although I didn't know the name then). These were obvious and usually happened when I didn't pinch before I injected. It was as if the insulin was only "cutaneous" rather than "subcutaneous" - it hadn't gone in far enough.
I found by massaging the lump, it would dissipate. I can't say for certain what was really happening but by doing this I never experienced the delayed absorption.

To be clear, this is very different from the fat lumps due to lipohypotrophy which can occur over time if we do not rotate your injection sites.
 
I honestly don't know, except over on DSF yonks ago - more people using Lantus reported it than other insulin users, though sometimes, they did. When I had mine let go, early noughties, left work early to get to Friday afternoon, 4.00 ish D. appointment - I was actually still in the D clinic having finished my review that day - I sat down back in the waiting room thereof to test my BG prior to walking back to my car to drive home, discovered I was under 4, drank some Lucozade (the old fashioned full glucose sort, waited, tested, still hypo, finished the (new) bottle I had in my bag) a DSN was about to go home and lock up, aaargh, didn't have the keys to the cupboard with their bottles of Lucozade in, but found a packet of custard creams in someone's unlocked drawer fortunately - I hated them before that, and still do 'oddly enough'. Had to force em down so I could get my BG up before I dare risk driving 2 junctions along the M6 in Friday rush hour. It absolutely wasn't possible with what I'd eaten or injected either that day or the day before.

Hence both she and I (plus her assistant DSN and my own and other consultants there) concluded it must have been a ruddy 'pocket' releasing. Scary stuff and one of the things that decided for me I really ought to try Levemir instead of Lantus as basal.
 
Is that what you are achieving or your target.... or both?

What do you mean by a spike? Do you mean an increase between your premeal reading and your 2 hour post meal reading? If so, thinking in these terms with insulin use is not helpful. Novorapid takes about 4-5 hours to totally work, so you are not really interested in doing anything about an increase of 5 or 6 except maybe prebolus a bit earlier so that the insulin has the chance to get absorbed and working as the food is digested and releasing the glucose. This timing is different for everyone and will depend on the time of day and the type of food and is very much a question of trial and error, but at this stage timing of your bolus and/or an increase of 6mmols is not something to be concerned about as long as it goes back down by the next meal.
You seem to be trying to control your diabetes through diet and trying to follow the advice for that when you are insulin dependent and therefore that doesn't apply. Your levels are far too high and you are losing weight and hungry because you are not eating enough and not giving yourself the insulin to cover it.



If this is just the rise after a meal then I would not suggest any extra units until the next meal and assess then if a correction is needed and then work out how many correction units you need with your 2mmol correction factor, you need to bring you back into range.
So if you start the day on 6 then spike up to 12 and come back down to about 6 by lunchtime then that was really good and you don't need to take any action, but if you went up to 12 and stayed there or went up to 15 or16 and then came down to 12 by lunchtime then you are about 6 units higher than ideal, so with your correction factor of 2, you would add 3 correction units to your lunchtime meal bolus (12-6=6 and you would need 3 units of NR to drop your levels 6mmols with a correction factor of 2 ie 3x2=6) , even if you were only having 10g carbs and therefore 1 unit of NR (with a 1:10g ratio) for the meal, so you would give yourself 4 units total in that scenario. If your levels were 20 at lunchtime and you were just going to have 10g carbs then 20-6=14 and 7X2=14.... so you would need 7 units for the correction and 1 for the food. It doesn't matter that the correction of 7 is much bigger than 1, you need that extra insulin to bring your levels down. If you were going to have 80g of carbs for lunch with a meal ratio of 1:10 then you would add the correction to that 8 units for the meal and that would be 15units of insulin (8 for the meal+7 for the correction if your BG was 20 for your premeal reading) to bring your levels down into range again.

Too much insulin is when you hypo....simple as! It happens to the best of us for a variety of reasons. Miscalculation, increased activity, honeymoon period when own pancreas chucks some insulin into our blood stream after we have injected the correct amount, hot weather making us more insulin sensitive, hormones.... loads of reasons....
No one said it was easy 🙄

During the last heat wave I had 4 days in a row when I had 2-4 hypos each day despite reducing my basal insulin by 2-3 units each day to try to prevent them. Hypos happen sometimes despite our best efforts and whilst it is not ideal, accepting that hypos are part of insulin usage and it isn't necessarily a failure on your part is important. I naively thought that 1 or 2 hypos a year was what I might expect and panicked when I had 2 in a fortnight in the first few months of using insulin. A very kind member of this forum said that she regularly had 2 hypos a day. That really put things into perspective for me. Having realistic expectations is important. I consider I have good diabetes management but I have 3-4 hypos a week of 7-10 if you believe Libre 🙄. It is a very fine balance and sometimes we don't get it quite right.

Can be a few weeks or months up to several years. It is very individual. I had 3 distinct stages to my honeymoon period where it was obvious that I needed more basal insulin. The first was about 6months from diagnosis, then about a year and then what I think was the final stage was after my first Covid vaccine and my insulin needs almost doubled over the 3 months following that vaccine..... then it levelled out and has been more or less the same since then apart from needing to reduce by 9 units over that last hot spell but now back up to full dose again.

At this stage it would be best to eat bigger meals and not snack between meals until you have more experience at managing your levels with insulin..... or stick to low carb snacks like a chunk of cheese or a boiled egg. Once you get confident using your bolus insulin you can inject extra insulin to cover snacks between meals but it can be confusing until you get the hang of managing main meals so try to have bigger meals and no or low carb snacks for now.

There is no need to go hungry so make some nice big meals, count the carbs, inject your insulin to cover them and fill yourself up on them so that you don't need snacks between meals.

If this was during the very hot spell then many of us had problems with hypos as I have mentioned above. I reduced my Levemir by 2-3 units each day to try to prevent them but it still wasn't enough and I hypoed multiple times each day. That is not a failing on my part. I took the right action and I am sure if would have been a lot worse if I hadn't done that, but it was quite extreme heat and I was out in it a lot of the time.
Feeling hypo at 6.2 could be because your levels had been quite high and came crashing down very quickly so that even though you weren't actually hypo, your body can sense BG dropping fast and gets twitchy and releases hormones to rectify the problem. Or the other option may be that you were actually hypo but you had something on your fingers which contaminated the blood.... This has happened to me on one occasion when I had been chopping onions, but also fruit or even just handling a jam jar that might have a tiny smear down the side.... If your test doesn't correspond with how you feel, you should always retest.

I used to feel exactly like you, that my diabetes didn't make sense and I wasn't normal like other people, but what you have to understand is that there is a very broad spectrum of what is normal. It takes time to understand how your body works with food and insulin and none of us are the same. You will eventually find some sort of balance and a way to make your insulins work for you (hopefully with some more support and guidance from the nurse and dietician later today and you will be able to eat more or less what you want and when you want and get reasonable results afterwards once you get more experience, but the two things I would say are..... don't be frightened to use your insulin (calculate how much you need, double check and then inject it without worrying how much it is more than usual, if your levels are high or you are having a big meal, then you will need it.....and don't be put off by making mistakes or having hypos. You learn more from mistakes than you do from success and hypos are just a part of diabetes management. The more you have the more confident you get at managing them and whilst of course you try to avoid them, don't feel you are doing anything wrong when they happen.
It is the target I should be aiming at. Recently I had none of this. Only highs and higher.

The issue, Barbara, is that my BG levels go up higher than expected and stay there, if not get worse. That makes me feel like I do not have scope to experiment.

Today's appointment went well. I find myself much calmer and in control due to better understanding. I have had a guilt free dinner. Feel full and satisfied. May this lasts long!

Thank you for being there for me.
 
As long as the discussion helped - it was worthwhile! Good.
 
It sounds like you’re feeling a little happier @Purls of Wisdom About the meals, at least. That’s interesting about the pouches of insulin and might explain some of your erratic results. How did the DSN find them?
Happier Indeed. My readings were fairly high for past 3-4 days, despite me being careful and over cautious. There was no explanation. The DSN wanted to check my injection site and discovered little knots. I was also told about these knots in the hospital.
 
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