Atkins diet?

[lynnnora2]

Hi all,
I was just wanting to know everyones opinion on the Atkins diet for people with type2 Diabetes. I spent abit of time looking up about it last night and having been told to cut down or cut out carbs from my nurse Im abit unsure which plan to follow.
Lynn xxx

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I have no personal experience, but have read comments from some who have found it worked and others who express grave doubts (Atkins always seems to provoke strong reactions).

As far as i understand it there are different phases in the diet, some of which are very like low-moderate carb diets that many T2s find effective. A complete absence of carbs in the diet seems to be slightly more problematic, prone to ketones and generally triggering hormone responses not necessarily helpful for good BG. Having said that all this is a bit half-remembered and vague.

I also get the feeling that if you very low carb rather than just low or moderate then your body begins to get better at converting protein to glucose which means you have tp allow for things in a slightly different way.

Maybe someone with a bit more hands-on knowledge will be along soon

M

 

[AlisonM]

I've been on a low carb diet since diagnosis and I would say it definitely helps me. I was told early on not to do a very low or no carb diet, just to reduce my intake, but I tried a very low carb diet anyway and started getting ketones so I increased the amounts and it went away. I do have some carbs at each meal but tend to stick to low GI foods wherever I can and drastically reduced the amount of bread, rice, pasta and spuds I was eating. I eat almost no potatoes now, they're a very, very rare treat and no more than two slices of brown/wholemeal or granary bread per day (none at all if I have one of the other starhcy foods). I still eat rice or pasta quite often but almost always the brown or wild kinds and in very reduced amounts (I measure out half a teacup of uncooked rice or a teacup of uncooked pasta at most).

If I stick to it, it definitely helps me and I reckon it's worth a try no matter what type you are.

 

[Mark T]

One of my (non-diabetic) colleagues does the Atkins diet to trim down his weight every so often. But he only stays on it for a month at most before reverting back to a calorie controlled diet.

What I get from him is that it isn't really easy to do as a permanent dietary change.

I was on 100g Carb per day when I was loosing weight, which isn't all that low but it much lower compared to what I was eating pre-diagnosis.

 

[Northerner]

The thing to bear in mind when deciding what diet to follow is, is it a diet that is going to become part of your life from now on and would you be happy with that? I've personally found that the GL (Glyceamic Load) diet is best for me as it offers great flexibility whilst helping to keep my blood sugar control very good. Useful books on the diet are reviewed here:

http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=7719
http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=7337

Also, I have heard good reports of The Gi Diet by Rick Gallop

🙂

 

[grufflybear]

I followed the Atkins diet about 8 years ago long before I found out I was diabetic and I did indeed lose weight very quickly but I became quite ill on the strictest version of it... and had continual problems due to lack of roughage despite taking all kinds of fibre supplements. However these days I understand that Atkins diet has many more variations which seem similar to views on here about low carb diets which also are very selective about which carbs are good to help with roughage and keep you eating enough carbs to be healthy. I am in very early days of monitoring blood and observing what happens with different levels of carbs and it seems that low carb diet has a distinct effect on reducing my BG after meals. I could still do with suggestions on how to get extra fibre though !

My feeling at the moment would be to look at low carb and especially GI information and advice for diabetics rather than follow strict Atkins.....

 

[C*5_Dodger]

Hi all,
I was just wanting to know everyones opinion on the Atkins diet for people with type2 Diabetes. I spent abit of time looking up about it last night and having been told to cut down or cut out carbs from my nurse Im abit unsure which plan to follow.
Lynn xxx

Dear lynnora2,

Firstly, welcome to the forum! There are a number of different "low carb" diets you can try - Atkins is as good as any. I have followed Atkins for a number of years and it worked well for me. I found it useful to read the books first and for me it was easy to follow. Atkins does not count calories - he just says eat until you are full. What you are likely to find is that if do did count calories you may well be eating less than a calorie controlled (semi starvation) diet. The reason is that protein and fat are particularly satiating. There was a study done by Dr Chrisopher Gardner, published in 2007, which compared 4 diets, called the A TO Z study (Atkins Traditional ie LEARN, Ornish and Zone. To cut a long story short, although none of them produced spectacular weight loss Atkins was the best of the lot and, more importantly, it provided better heart disease markers than any of the others. Here is a U Tube video of the Trial outcomes presented by Dr Gardner himself - he looks like John Denver to me! If you start it and it keeps pausing it means that the connection bandwidth is not large enough. To get round this just pause it - it will continue downloading into a buffer on your PC, and then start it again when the buffer is say 3/4 full! Left click here. BTW in this study the Atkins group were indeed eating less calories

Regards Dodger

 

[FM001]

The Atkins Diet was slated from world health organisations from its introduction up until recent times due to the health implications from replacing carbohydrates with animal based products, due to the bad publicity they reintroduced a newer version of the diet only a few years ago. The new Atkins diet now allows a increase in carbs from sources such as wholegrain and suggests followers opt for lean meats, fish and poultry, more surprisingly they now recommend that fats should only come from non-animal sources. Never tried it and wouldn't particularly want to, but for those struggling with diabetes it is one of many options available I suppose.

 

[C*5_Dodger]

The Atkins Diet was slated from world health organisations from its introduction up until recent times due to the health implications from replacing carbohydrates with animal based products, due to the bad publicity they reintroduced a newer version of the diet only a few years ago. The new Atkins diet now allows a increase in carbs from sources such as wholegrain and suggests followers opt for lean meats, fish and poultry, more surprisingly they now recommend that fats should only come from non-animal sources. Never tried it and wouldn't particularly want to, but for those struggling with diabetes it is one of many options available I suppose.

Dear Toby,

I am surprised at some of your comments, in particular that fat should only come from non-animals sources. I have all the Atkins books, including the latest one entitled "New Atkins New You" Can you point me to the book where you found that information and the page number where it is written? Thanking you in anticipation.

Regards Dodger

 

[Liz!]

Yes, I'd like to know where it says that too. I can't imagine why they should. You need some cholesterol, your body can't make enough, I'm convinced the lack of it is why many diabetics suffer from Eczema. Mine went away when I followed The Zone diet, which is a relaxed version of Atkins, and i relax it slightly more than they do, as i do need carbs to be able to exercise. Cholesterol is cholesterol is cholesterol - why does it matter where it comes from? What you do need with the cholesterol is lots of mono-unsaturates which help break down cholesterol, and higher your good blood fats.

 

[FM001]

Dear Toby,

I am surprised at some of your comments, in particular that fat should only come from non-animals sources. I have all the Atkins books, including the latest one entitled "New Atkins New You" Can you point me to the book where you found that information and the page number where it is written? Thanking you in anticipation.Regards Dodger

Apologies for not getting back sooner. I don't have a copy of the book as I have no need to follow a Atkins style diet, what I read was a review of the book at its launch and the reviewer was praising the authors for moving away from the previous Atkins approach, suggesting they had taken on board the health implications of the previous versions and were taking a more sensible approach to dieting. This isn't the article I read http://www.freedieting.com/new-atkins-diet.htm but does suggest a similar account of the New Atkins New You book.

 

[mcdonagh47]

Yes, I'd like to know where it says that too. I can't imagine why they should. You need some cholesterol, your body can't make enough, ...........does it matter where it comes from? .

The body can make up to 1200 mg of cholesterol a day - all you need.

What does it matter where it comes from ? Because dietary cholesterol usually has to be moved from the stomach by LDL - the "bad" Lipid. And because 20-30% of people are Hyper Responders to Dietary Cholesterol - their lipids, mainly "bad" LDL-C, shoots up quickly into damaging post prandial spikes in the couple of hours after eating food high in cholesterol.

 

[C*5_Dodger]

Apologies for not getting back sooner. I don't have a copy of the book as I have no need to follow a Atkins style diet, what I read was a review of the book at its launch and the reviewer was praising the authors for moving away from the previous Atkins approach, suggesting they had taken on board the health implications of the previous versions and were taking a more sensible approach to dieting. This isn't the article I read http://www.freedieting.com/new-atkins-diet.htm but does suggest a similar account of the New Atkins New You book.

Dear Toby,

Thanks for the clarification. I have re-read the chapter on fat (chapter 5 - Meet Your New Friend: Fat) in the book you mention and it definitely does not say that only non-animal fat should be consumed. If fact they don't care where the fat comes from, and why should they, they give examples of receipes using animal fat and even suggest that if you wish you can replace butter with olive oil in other words its our choice. What they do say in a special section of chapter 5, is, "The Saturated Fat Myth". The first line is: "The Myth: Saturated Fat is to blame for a host of ill health...." and go on to say that saturated fat is beneficial! There is also section on cholesterol "The Cholesterol Myth"- they believe, as I do, that blaming cholesterol is not right.

Warmest Regards Dodger

 

[C*5_Dodger]

The body can make up to 1200 mg of cholesterol a day - all you need.

What does it matter where it comes from ? Because dietary cholesterol usually has to be moved from the stomach by LDL - the "bad" Lipid. And because 20-30% of people are Hyper Responders to Dietary Cholesterol - their lipids, mainly "bad" LDL-C, shoots up quickly into damaging post prandial spikes in the couple of hours after eating food high in cholesterol.

Cholesterol and fat is moved from the small intestine in chylomicrons

 

[heasandford]

Dear Toby,

Thanks for the clarification. I have re-read the chapter on fat (chapter 5 - Meet Your New Friend: Fat) in the book you mention and it definitely does not say that only non-animal fat should be consumed. If fact they don't care where the fat comes from, and why should they, they give examples of receipes using animal fat and even suggest that if you wish you can replace butter with olive oil in other words its our choice. What they do say in a special section of chapter 5, is, "The Saturated Fat Myth". The first line is: "The Myth: Saturated Fat is to blame for a host of ill health...." and go on to say that saturated fat is beneficial! There is also section on cholesterol "The Cholesterol Myth"- they believe, as I do, that blaming cholesterol is not right.

Warmest Regards Dodger

the Atkin's thoughts on saturated fat are fairly unique to them - the vast majority of nutrition experts still disagree with them, so be careful with that information. At best, the jury is out on this one!

 

[C*5_Dodger]

the Atkin's thoughts on saturated fat are fairly unique to them - the vast majority of nutrition experts still disagree with them, so be careful with that information. At best, the jury is out on this one!

Dear heasandforth,

I agree, most of the establishment do not agree on the saturated fat issue, but there is growing evidence that saturated fat does not cause CVD. I hope the jury catches up with the science. On a non scientific note - our species has been eating animal fat for some 2 million years, the operation of evolution would ensure that Fat was not bad for us - or we would have died out! Have a look here (scoll down if you choose to follow the link) , the info' he presents is referenced at the end of the article. BTW, I eat a very high fat diet and have done so for 14+ years, I guess I'm just lucky . Oh, it wasn't Atkins thoughts, he died several years ago, the book was written by Westman, Phinney and Volek.

Edit: Have look here, or for something less technical here

Regards Dodger

 

[heasandford]

Dear heasandforth,

I agree, most of the establishment do not agree on the saturated fat issue, but there is growing evidence that saturated fat does not cause CVD. I hope the jury catches up with the science. On a non scientific note - our species has been eating animal fat for some 2 million years, the operation of evolution would ensure that Fat was not bad for us - or we would have died out! Have a look here (scoll down if you choose to follow the link) , the info' he presents is referenced at the end of the article. BTW, I eat a very high fat diet and have done so for 14+ years, I guess I'm just lucky . Oh, it wasn't Atkins thoughts, he died several years ago, the book was written by Westman, Phinney and Volek.

Edit: Have look here, or for something less technical here

Regards Dodger

Dr Briffa is too commercial for me to feel completely comfortable with his thesis, and the Daily Mail writes such appalling 'scientific' articles about Diabetes etc that you really can't take them seriously. I wanted to put the other side of the argument - I recommend this link -
http://www.wphna.org/2011_apr_hp4_president.htm
from which I take the following quotes - I hope balanced -
....the public health focus always should have been, and still needs to be, primarily on hydrogenated oils (the product of food technology) as distinct from saturated fat (the chemical constituent). Hydrogenation turns unsaturated oils into saturated fats, of course, but the point being made is that the finger should point more at products like hard margarines, baked goods, French fries (chips), and fatty 'long-life' packaged snacks.

...these days it's hard to find any research scientist well-furbished with grants who does not accept funding or any other support from industry whose interests conflict with those of public health.

Sorry if this is a bit long!

 

[heasandford]

and can I also recommend 'Bad Science' by Ben Goldacre for anyone trying to sort the wheat from the chaff reading reports from all and sundry!

There will always be exceptions to every rule, and everyone responds differently - certainly I am still trying to find what works for me, I want it to be a little bit of everything!

 

[FM001]

Dear Toby,

Thanks for the clarification. I have re-read the chapter on fat (chapter 5 - Meet Your New Friend: Fat) in the book you mention and it definitely does not say that only non-animal fat should be consumed. If fact they don't care where the fat comes from, and why should they, they give examples of receipes using animal fat and even suggest that if you wish you can replace butter with olive oil in other words its our choice. What they do say in a special section of chapter 5, is, "The Saturated Fat Myth". The first line is: "The Myth: Saturated Fat is to blame for a host of ill health...." and go on to say that saturated fat is beneficial! There is also section on cholesterol "The Cholesterol Myth"- they believe, as I do, that blaming cholesterol is not right.

Warmest Regards Dodger

It's a shame then if they haven't revised the diet as the reviewer suggested Surely the advice from the worlds leading authorities on CVD can't all be wrong and a handful of mavericks right?

 

[C*5_Dodger]

Dr Briffa is too commercial for me to feel completely comfortable with his thesis, and the Daily Mail writes such appalling 'scientific' articles about Diabetes etc that you really can't take them seriously. I wanted to put the other side of the argument - I recommend this link -
http://www.wphna.org/2011_apr_hp4_president.htm
from which I take the following quotes - I hope balanced -
....the public health focus always should have been, and still needs to be, primarily on hydrogenated oils (the product of food technology) as distinct from saturated fat (the chemical constituent). Hydrogenation turns unsaturated oils into saturated fats, of course, but the point being made is that the finger should point more at products like hard margarines, baked goods, French fries (chips), and fatty 'long-life' packaged snacks.

...these days it's hard to find any research scientist well-furbished with grants who does not accept funding or any other support from industry whose interests conflict with those of public health.

Sorry if this is a bit long!

Dear heasandford,

No need to apologise for the length of your reply - you make some good points. For example, I agree entirely on hydrogenated oils, the less of them we use the better. They are not natural, the vast majority of unsaturated natural oils occur in the CIS configurtion whereas partially hydrogenated oils occur in TRANS configuration - which turns out to be bad. OK, so you don't like Briffa or the Daily Mail, but that still leaves the Meta analysis, made up of 21 studies, which shows that saturated fat is not bad. Anyway, I suspect that we could go on throwing articles and studies at each other and not get anywhere in changing each other's viewpoint - it's a knotty problem. Thanks for the discussion.

Warmest Regards Dodger