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At last reduction in Statin intake

Newbie777

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Hello,

For over 2 years I have been on a mission to reduce my Atorvastatin dosage of 80mg to at least 40mg.

Due to my BG levels being out of control, that was my first target, then my kidneys and now my cholesterol.

It seems my LDL goes up and my Triglycerides goes down and vice versa.

Also, personally I do not think the Chlorestoral levels are set correctly and Statins are too easily prescribed, when the body actually needs Chlorestoral.

The good news is I will be starting on 40mg and will take it from there, will expect my Chlorestoral levels to go higher when I take my bloods in 3 months time, but am good with that.

Not sure if anyone else has reduced their Statins, everyone else I know it has been the other way around for them!
 
My story is a little different to yours but my statins were reduced.
Since my 40th birthday, I have been pressured to take statins despite my cholesterol not being very high. (Yes, I agree they are too easily prescribed).
However, my cholesterol has been creeping up and eventually, last year, they passed the threshold so I agreed and the statins were prescribed.
Thankfully, I had no side effects and they bought my cholesterol back down into target range.
Then, I realised I was prescribed twice the minimum dose which, given I was only just over the target range without them. So, I requested the dose to be halved. It took some persuading but, finally my GP agreed on the proviso, I had a test after 3 months and agreed to increase the dose if necessary. I am pleased to say that the test results were all good and I have remained on the lower dose and the statins are doing their job without any side effects.
 
Brilliant and well done for persevering.
 
I was prescribed Atorvastatin back in 2016 and it took years for the effects to fade even though I took the daily single tablet for such a short time. The physical aches and pains were bad but blasting my memory - which used to be phenomenal, that almost did for me.
I needed to relearn all my songs - fortunately my daughter had asked that I write them out for her and so I had over 300 to go through - I spent hours every week just going over and over page after page of that book - I am remaking it now as it was looking very sad and sorry for itself. I need to expand it as my repertoire was around 500 in all.
 
Well done Drummer, you acted on time

I think memory loss is definitely a big issue with Statins.

Although not sure going down to 40mg will make.a difference will have to see
 
Hi @Newbie777 Looking at your footer, I see that your cholesterol is 4.9 which is the same as mine. I had a review back in March where there was a push by the nurse to prescribe me statins and I refused to have them. At that time my cholesterol was 6.4. My latest test which shows the reduction has been marked "satisfactory" and "no further action" by my GP and I intend to use that to refuse them again when I see the nurse next week. I am with you when you say that the acceptable cholesterol level is set to incorrectly, someone once told me that they were set at 5 following a study in the US that showed 50% of the population were at risk of heart attacks if they were above this level. Not sure if it is true but I certainly don't agree with the need for statins when people can take steps through diet and exercise to reduce the levels. However, part of the reason that they push statins is that type 2 diabetes is treated in the UK with a focus on heart health as much as it is a metabolic disorder.
 
Hello,

For over 2 years I have been on a mission to reduce my Atorvastatin dosage of 80mg to at least 40mg.

Due to my BG levels being out of control, that was my first target, then my kidneys and now my cholesterol.

It seems my LDL goes up and my Triglycerides goes down and vice versa.

Also, personally I do not think the Chlorestoral levels are set correctly and Statins are too easily prescribed, when the body actually needs Chlorestoral.

The good news is I will be starting on 40mg and will take it from there, will expect my Chlorestoral levels to go higher when I take my bloods in 3 months time, but am good with that.

Not sure if anyone else has reduced their Statins, everyone else I know it has been the other way around for them!
My Statin 'adventure' took place approx 2 years ago, my non Hdl needed to be managed, I was advised Atorvastatin (sp?) didn't have any obvious side effect . Had a three month blood test, the statin had reduced my cholestrol but at the same time elevated my liver enzymes. Cue emergency call from surgery, told to stop taking statin immediately, after four weeks worth of bood tests. My liver function returned to normal. The very young GP advised me to try a cholestrol lowering drug Ezetimibe without a statin. Recently had a three month blood test, liver function good and all lipid (?) markers in the happy green normal area. I suspect, if I did add a statin with Ezetimibe, my cholesterol would drop even more, but I am quite happy with the current result and will see what happens at my next blood test. So many things to consider, sigh
 
However, part of the reason that they push statins is that type 2 diabetes is treated in the UK with a focus on heart health as much as it is a metabolic disorder.
The statin push is not solely for type 2.
My understanding is that anyone over the age of 40 with Type 1 diabetes is advised to take statins regardless of cholesterol (or HbA1c).
I was told this is because people with diabetes are at higher risk of heart problems.
However, the research regarding statins was taken with people who were overweight, did little exercise and ate a poor diet. There was no research regarding people with diabetes at a healthy weight who exercised regularly and managed their diabetes.
Lately, I have also been told people with diabetes are more at risk of heart problems due to greater variations in our BG which puts extra strain on our heart. This, and my slightly elevated cholesterol levels, was the motivation to try statins.
Sorry for the mini-rant. My point is that this is not a type 2 thing. It is a diabetes thing.
 
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Hi @Newbie777 Looking at your footer, I see that your cholesterol is 4.9 which is the same as mine. I had a review back in March where there was a push by the nurse to prescribe me statins and I refused to have them. At that time my cholesterol was 6.4. My latest test which shows the reduction has been marked "satisfactory" and "no further action" by my GP and I intend to use that to refuse them again when I see the nurse next week. I am with you when you say that the acceptable cholesterol level is set to incorrectly, someone once told me that they were set at 5 following a study in the US that showed 50% of the population were at risk of heart attacks if they were above this level. Not sure if it is true but I certainly don't agree with the need for statins when people can take steps through diet and exercise to reduce the levels. However, part of the reason that they push statins is that type 2 diabetes is treated in the UK with a focus on heart health as much as it is a metabolic disorder.
Thank you @JimmyBlue ,

Yes it is 4.9 and previously was 5.3, 4.7, 4.9, the issue I had was my LDL would go up and Triglycerides would go down and vice versa. Mainly due to my low carb, high protein and high fat diet.

When you really look into the whole industry it is all about money making and all about suppressing the illness.

The medical advice and facts need to be updated but who will take on the big pharmas who will rebuke any findings which provide very them wrong and that possibly most people who take Statins may not need them?

Also they GPs are very keen on providing Statins straight away, as if they are super concerned something will happen overnight, the NICE guidelines need to be updated.

Don't get me wrong Statins have their purpose and for some people they are absolutely essential,

BTW.Well done for keeping off them, hopefully our results will be good.
 
The statin pish is not solely for type 2.
My understanding is that anyone over the age of 40 with Type 1 diabetes is advised to take statins regardless of cholesterol (or HbA1c).
I was told this is because people with diabetes are at higher risk of heart problems.
However, the research regarding statins was taken with people who were overweight, did little exercise and ate a poor diet. There was no research regarding people with diabetes at a healthy weight who exercised regularly and managed their diabetes.
Lately, I have also been told people with diabetes are more at risk of health problems due to greater variations in our BG which puts extra strain on our heart. This, and my slightly elevated cholesterol levels, was the motivation to try statins.
Sorry for the mini-rant. My point is that this is not a type 2 thing. It is a diabetes thing.
That's interesting @helli,

The other issue regarding Statins and the heart, there are now different medicines that are used for Diabetes, including Canagflorizin (Invokama) which according to a Consultant make a big difference in getting a stroke and heart attacks.

So the argument stands, are Statins telhe first port of call for high Chlorestoral?
Where is the evidence which points that Chlorestoral needs to be less than 5.0.
What about the evidence by many of suffering brain fog as Cholesterol is needed by the brain/body and not all bad for you etc etc
 
The medical advice and facts need to be updated but who will take on the big pharmas who will rebuke any findings which provide very them wrong and that possibly most people who take Statins may not need them?

I’ve had something of a turnaround in my thinking about statins over the past 4-5 years, so I can see both sides of this conversation.

My current position is that there is every bit as much of an ‘industry’ making money from creating content that raises doubts over the effectiveness of statins, as there is about promoting them. There are those who make a career out of it (Harcombe, McKendrick, Malhotra, blah blah).

Imagine a world in which there existed an effective and cheap medication which prevented the number 1 killer of all humans everywhere. It worked (not 100%, but it significantly reduced the number of events at a population level). It was cheap. For the vast majority of peope, there were no adverse effects. And doctors refused to let people have the medication. Endless hoops were set up that people had to jump through to prove they really needed it. Chances are we’d be up in arms, making campaigns to fight for access.

Heart attacks kill people. And especially people with diabetes. Strokes can result in the need for lengthy rehabilitation programmes, heartache for families, lives that are forever altered. Looking after people who have experienced heart failure, stroke, or other CVD illness is an expensive business - both in terms of the human cost, societal impact, and also the financial cost.

There is no ‘plot’.

Statins have been studied, in great detail, over many many years. They are probably one of the most examined medications - both by industry-funded research, and also independent academic research. Overwhelmingly the results point in the same direction. And additional ‘let’s just check we have this right’ studies have clarified and confirmed the picture.

The reason they are offered so widely (which can feel like they are being ‘pushed at us and there’s some sort of weird agenda) is that they work, and they are cheap. That’s a pretty winning combination as far as evidence-based medicine goes. As a population level there is no question. You couldn’t even get a study past ethics approval any more to ask “do they work”, because there have been enough studies with more than enough people involved to render that a non-question.

In general people don’t want to take medication*. Even less so if they can’t actually see a benefit or effect that they want from it. How does one perceive a reduction in risk? How can we know that something hasn’t happened because of a prescribed medication, or whether it just hasn’t happened? When taking a statin the ideal outcome is that nothing happens. No wonder people find it hard to see the benefit of them.

The vast majority of people who take statins have no ill effects. Or if they do have some mild negative effects (like @Robin) these disappear when taking a different statin.

There are people, including people on the forum, who experienced a more significant negative reaction, but these are rare.

I’m prepared to accept that they may be slightly more common than some of the official RCT trial data may suggest (because from an ethics perspective, some trials have to include a run-in phase that removes anyone from the trial who can’t tolerate the medication). But there are large population, real-world, observational studies too.

One of the oddities about side effects and statins (perhaps because of the cloud of doubt that is so enthusiastically fostered around them by some high profile figures) is that trials often has as many ‘adverse events’ in the placebo arm as they do in the treatment arm. People genuinely experience negative effects because they are convinced that they will.

But that doesn’t cover everyone. And of course there will be people for whom statins are not appropriate. But to be honest, that is not very many people.

And actually the only way to know whether you will get on OK with them is to try them. And to try alternatives if you get any weirdness with the first one.

So I am more than happy to continue to take my statin, having been pretty suspicious of them for (or at least undecided) for years. But to reassure guests and lurkers. There is no plot. Statins are cheap, and they work. That’s all.

* A recent counter-example is Ozempic. People falling over themselves to get hold of a medication (that wasn’t even meant for that purpose) and wanting to use it “off label” because it promosed them the weight loss they wanted.
 
The other issue regarding Statins and the heart, there are now different medicines that are used for Diabetes, including Canagflorizin (Invokama) which according to a Consultant make a big difference in getting a stroke and heart attacks.

So the argument stands, are Statins telhe first port of call for high Chlorestoral?
Where is the evidence which points that Chlorestoral needs to be less than 5.0.
What about the evidence by many of suffering brain fog as Cholesterol is needed by the brain/body and not all bad for you etc etc
I believe below 4 Total Cholesterol is the level they like people with diabetes to achieve, so above that and statin's are generally recommended.
I have been consistently just above that in the mid 4s since diagnosis 6years ago. It wasn't until about 3 years ago that I was offered/encouraged to take statins but I don't feel that at this level I want to take them. If my levels were consistently rising and getting up to 6 I would rethink my position. I believe that including plenty of soluble fibre (psyllium and chia seeds) in my diet is important to manage my cholesterol, especially as I eat a lot of saturated fats from cream, cheese and fatty meat. It also doesn't feel right to take a statin when my diet is very contrary to NHS advice on cholesterol, even though my low carb higher fat diet seems to really suit me health wise in lots of ways unrelated to diabetes as well as my diabetes management itself.

I think if you are already on statins and your levels are still above 5 then it is important not to lose sight of the fact that the statin will be involved in your cholesterol being 4.9. They are pretty effective from what I understand in lowering cholesterol, so if you are assuming you can stop them or reduce them because your cholesterol is not too high, that might be reverse logic and your levels will rise because your statin dose has been reduced..... but maybe I am misunderstanding your situation.
In your circumstances, I would certainly be looking at other things you can do with diet to mitigate the effect of the statin reduction.... like a soluble fibre supplement or those Benecol type drinks or perhaps both.
 
I believe below 4 Total Cholesterol is the level they like people with diabetes to achieve, so above that and statin's are generally recommended.
I have been consistently just above that in the mid 4s since diagnosis 6years ago. It wasn't until about 3 years ago that I was offered/encouraged to take statins but I don't feel that at this level I want to take them. If my levels were consistently rising and getting up to 6 I would rethink my position. I believe that including plenty of soluble fibre (psyllium and chia seeds) in my diet is important to manage my cholesterol, especially as I eat a lot of saturated fats from cream, cheese and fatty meat. It also doesn't feel right to take a statin when my diet is very contrary to NHS advice on cholesterol, even though my low carb higher fat diet seems to really suit me health wise in lots of ways unrelated to diabetes as well as my diabetes management itself.

I think if you are already on statins and your levels are still above 5 then it is important not to lose sight of the fact that the statin will be involved in your cholesterol being 4.9. They are pretty effective from what I understand in lowering cholesterol, so if you are assuming you can stop them or reduce them because your cholesterol is not too high, that might be reverse logic and your levels will rise because your statin dose has been reduced..... but maybe I am misunderstanding your situation.
In your circumstances, I would certainly be looking at other things you can do with diet to mitigate the effect of the statin reduction.... like a soluble fibre supplement or those Benecol type drinks or perhaps both.
Thank you @rebrascora, my Chlorestoral is high ( my HDL has always been good) due to my high fat and low carb diet, so reducing my statin from 80mg to 40mg, is still a high dose.

My chlorestoral figures fluctuate with my LDL and Triglycerides, and their is a difference of opinion on which one of these needs to be lower to prevent stroke and heart attacks.

Like I said I am taking Canagflorizin which also helps the heart and preventing stroke and heart attacks.

One of the biggest concerns for Diabetics should be high blood pressure and that does need to be controlled, for me walking helps on that front.

Finally not forgetting lifestyle choices, including stress and family history, so many many factors to consider, not a simple subject and straight forward subject at all.
 
There is no ‘plot’.
@everydayupsanddowns I agree with that statement totally. I don't believe that there is a plot but I do think that pharma companies focus their investment in products that can be dispensed on a wide scale versus products that only a few need. Selling 6 billion tablets at £1/tablet brings in more revenue than trying to sell a drug that costs £250K and will be used by six people. Therefore persuading governments and health organisations that 50% of people are at risk of a heart attack if their cholesterol is above 6 means that you have a much bigger market to target with the drug. That doesn't mean that statins aren't a good drug that deliver benefits to millions but, they are a big profit generator. Add to which they are often touted as panacea to the world's major illnesses, if the Daily Express and some doctors are to be believed.
The pharmaceutical companies also know that GP surgeries, lack time and often fail to actually explore things in sufficient detail instead simply offering the patient a tablet, and being honest many patients expect that to be the first thing to happen. But, this is not necessarily the way to do things. Actually getting all the facts and information can actually avoid people being given medication simply by getting them to do the sightly harder activity of changing their habits.
I want the option to try none medication methods first, especially where there is evidence that such methods are beneficial and can change things.
 
@everydayupsanddowns I agree with that statement totally. I don't believe that there is a plot but I do think that pharma companies focus their investment in products that can be dispensed on a wide scale versus products that only a few need. Selling 6 billion tablets at £1/tablet brings in more revenue than trying to sell a drug that costs £250K and will be used by six people. Therefore persuading governments and health organisations that 50% of people are at risk of a heart attack if their cholesterol is above 6 means that you have a much bigger market to target with the drug. That doesn't mean that statins aren't a good drug that deliver benefits to millions but, they are a big profit generator. Add to which they are often touted as panacea to the world's major illnesses, if the Daily Express and some doctors are to be believed.
The pharmaceutical companies also know that GP surgeries, lack time and often fail to actually explore things in sufficient detail instead simply offering the patient a tablet, and being honest many patients expect that to be the first thing to happen. But, this is not necessarily the way to do things. Actually getting all the facts and information can actually avoid people being given medication simply by getting them to do the sightly harder activity of changing their habits.
I want the option to try none medication methods first, especially where there is evidence that such methods are beneficial and can change things.
Thank you @everydayupsanddowns, thats how it should be, we should be given time to explore the options and then make an I formed choice. All medicines are foreign to the body and even paracetamol has side affects.

In reality the problem also lie with us in the western world with our proceeded foods, availability of anything and also our lifestyles, we expect to take a pill for everything and that is the mentality nowadays.

It is interesting like places in Japan they don't have the same health issues that we do, and it is not all about the food they eat, I think there approach is more natural first
 
Thank you @everydayupsanddowns, thats how it should be, we should be given time to explore the options and then make an I formed choice. All medicines are foreign to the body and even paracetamol has side affects.

In reality the problem also lie with us in the western world with our proceeded foods, availability of anything and also our lifestyles, we expect to take a pill for everything and that is the mentality nowadays.

It is interesting like places in Japan they don't have the same health issues that we do, and it is not all about the food they eat, I think there approach is more natural first
And of course, their genetics which neither myself nor either of my husbands, have shared even utterly remotely.

(my own maiden name is one common in the annals of Norfolk, but also quite present in Australia at one time - always wondered if he was deported there or what! If so must have made good cos there's a street in Sydney with that name, unless it was named after a Bad Lad cos he lived along it and they wanted to warn everyone else not to go down there or at least take extra care if you had to - never taken the trouble to investigate more.)
 
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