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Aspie and diabetes: how to manage hypos???

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This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.
One of the things Lauren has trouble with is recognising that a non Aspergers brain doesn't see things in quite the same way as hers does ...

One of the things R has trouble with is recognising that other people don't know something just because he knows it (eg it took him a long time to understand that I needed him to ring me if he was going to be very late - he thought he didn't need to because he knew why he was late and that he was OK, so he couldn't understand why I might be worried).
 
This sounds so familiar, Aspie - it is exactly what my partner does. He is always thinking "what would a 'normal' person say in this situation?" He is very successful at faking it - he gets on well with people, and is really good at conversation, and I think most people wouldn't have a clue how much of an effort this is for him. He is always tired - and it doesn't help that he doesn't sleep well either, another autistic thing (he can't cope with anything like light or noise when he's trying to sleep).

He has never had a formal diagnosis of Asperger's, but we have done enough research to be pretty sure that is what he has. If you don't mind my asking, did it help you to get a diagnosis? We have been wondering whether asking our GP for a referral to try to get him a diagnosis would be a good idea - he is so high-functioning that we have never felt it necessary before, but the constant tiredness is really difficult for him at the moment.
Thank you, Juliet. It is such a personal decision, whether to seek the formal diagnosis or not. I kind of fell into it, when I was seeing a psychiatrist for depression and she suddenly asked me if I have ever wondered if I was on the spectrum (diabetes and depression is a really evil combination: diabetes increases your chances of getting depressed, on a physiological/chemical level, and depression worsens diabetic control and outcome). So, for me the diagnosis was as helpful as it was unexpected. Suddenly, my life started making much more sense, because the diagnosis helped me understand the bits of my personality and behaviour that frustrated myself and those around me (like my "bloody-mindedness", or my unfortunate tendency to inform my supervising consultants their proposed plan of action goes against the NICE guidelines 🙄).

In general, it seems there's a limit to how much we can go on trying to fit in and adapting without some extra support and adaptations. While I was lucky enough to have benevolent supervisors who were amused rather than insulted by my direct approach and let me control the minutia of my routine at work (such as how manage hypos, where do I do my admin, when to take breaks, etc), I was coping OK. But once that support is removed, things just fall apart. And then the diagnosis may be helpful at least to try to get some support back via formal routes, I guess.

I think if your partner struggles with tiredness, it would be a good idea to visit the GP anyway, to check that there are no other problems going on (my first and most frustrating symptom of DM has been excessive tiredness, and then there's a host of other things, from anaemia to hypothyroidism). If all is well physically, then you have a much stronger case for a psych referral. Now, the adult ASD services function differently in different parts of the country: eg, in Cambridgeshire and in London GPs can refer directly for a specialist ASD assessment, while in some other parts of the country you may need to see a general Psychiatrist first (and some places, seeking the assessment privately is the only option :confused:). So, there are lots of variables there.

Good luck with your partner: if you want to discuss this in more detail, PM me, I'll try to help if I can 🙂.
 
Thanks Aspie, your insight has given me and everyone else a good insight into Asperger's and it's very much appreciated.
I have been thinking about CGM a lot; do you have any experience with it, Pumper_Sue? It's such a massive investment for us, and I have researched it online but haven't met anyone who has used one so far. I have been pumping on Animas for a few months, and initially it worked great but each time any of my other medications changes, I have to start from scratch. And whilst I am establishing my new ISF, I:C ratio and basal rate (all of which change 3 or 4 times a day!), I go through the hell of daily hypos. Sometimes, I can have 3-4 hypos a day (when it is that bad, I have to take sick leave until things stabilise a bit).

Yes I have the Animas Vibe and use the CGM and it's fantastic. 🙂 The sensors can be restarted so most people can get at least 21 days from each sensor so it doesn't cost quite as much as it first appears. Dexcom have also moved over to the UK so it's worth checking their prices for transmitters as apposed to Animas who's sensors are a lot cheaper than Dexcom.
No 1 rule is always sort your basal first. I have 12 different rates during the 24 hour period and this works for me if I have a day of lows for any reason the simplest thing to do is treat the first hypo and keep monitoring and if blood sugars are not going up to an acceptable level or staying in the range you are comfortable with then set a temp basal rate.
Have you come across the book called pumping insulin by John Walsh, well worth the purchase?
Pumper_Sue, I'm very curious how low do you tend to go on hypos? Do you actually have any "proper" hypos, or do you manage to prevent/arrest them before you go in to the <4 territory?

Most of the time I tend to avoid hypos due to the use of the CGM, so if it alarms at 5 then I test to find my blood sugar is 4.5 I then treat as a low blood sugar so I do not drop into hypo territory. Obviously this doesn't always work as the CGM is about 20 minutes behind a finger poke reading. Early hours of this morning for instance due to me knowing better than my pump recommendation for a meal bolus 🙄 I decided I needed more insulin than suggested, result was a hypo in which I dropped down to 3 very quickly and I knew all about it. Within 15 minutes I was fine so went back to sleep again.
 
Oh, WOW! TWELVE different basal rates over 24 hours?! How did you manage to fine-tune it so precisely? I was advised to set the morning rate after carb free breakfast, afternoon rate after carb free lunch, evening and night rate after carb free supper. This is what I did. And my bolus doses broadly correspond to these Intervals. So, I would love to know how you can fine-tune it in 2 hr Intervals!

I am going to get the book NOW, thank you for your advice!

My current struggle is to control postprandial peaks, ESPECIALLY in the morning. I had been on Novorapid for 5 years, one year on the pump, and I just can't do it. It doesn't kick in until about an hour after the bolus, and tends to stay in my system for longer periods than it should, too. We finally figured it was a huge factor in my afternoon/evening hypos, b/C the insulin kept accumulating in my body throughout the day, but wasn't taken into account. For example, I would inject 10 U before breakfast, have a massive peak up to 20s lasting for 2-3 hours, and then my BG starts dropping quite rapidly. Now, before I wisened up, I would give myself a correction dose at 3 hrs, which basically sent my BG levels off the cliff.

I have changed to Apidra, and I know many people have to change the dose when changing insulin, but my Apidra dose is 2-4 times higher than the dose of Novorapid! Which kind of makes me concerned about having to put into my body more of other chemicals that come in the vial of insulin. It is a bit faster than Novorapid, but there is still a peak for an hour or 1.5 hrs.

I am looking forward to the supposedly Ultrarapid Novorapid, which should be released in the UK this year, but I am sure lots of people manage their post meal peaks well without needing the super rapid stuff.

Any tips?
 
Just a thought, Diabetic_Aspie - do you pre bolus for your meals? There are people on here who need to bolus half an hour or even an hour before they eat, especially in the morning. That way they dont get the post prandial high.
 
An HOUR? I do it about 20 min before the meal. I'm kind of ravenous when I wake up, so 20 min seems like ages.:confused:. And then at work I just don't have the flexibility to prebolus an hour before the meal: I'm terrified that I would have the bolus and then something hits the fan and I won't be able to eat when I need to.

I guess, I will have to give it a go anyhow. That would certainly go into the reasonable adjustments category.

Oomph.... Five years on, and there's still so much to learn.😳
 
Just a thought, Diabetic_Aspie - do you pre bolus for your meals? There are people on here who need to bolus half an hour or even an hour before they eat, especially in the morning. That way they dont get the post prandial high.
My thought exactly. I need to leave at least 30 minutes after my breakfast bolus before eating in order to catch the curve of a single piece of seedy toast. This morning I waited an hour and a quarter (I'm wearing a lIbre sensor so was happy to just wait till I saw my levels begin to dip down).
 
An HOUR? I do it about 20 min before the meal. I'm kind of ravenous when I wake up, so 20 min seems like ages.:confused:. And then at work I just don't have the flexibility to prebolus an hour before the meal: I'm terrified that I would have the bolus and then something hits the fan and I won't be able to eat when I need to.

I guess, I will have to give it a go anyhow. That would certainly go into the reasonable adjustments category.

Oomph.... Five years on, and there's still so much to learn.😳

Yes you are quite right - it's important not to get distracted once you have become used to pre-bolusing. I try to limit to 30 minutes at lunch (don't need to pre-bolus eve meal at all) as I have unintentionally got myself into hypo-territory a few times by losing track of time between lunch dose and food 🙄

PS I've been playing at this silly game for 5x as long as you and I still learn (or re-learn) something every day!
 
Oh, WOW! TWELVE different basal rates over 24 hours?! How did you manage to fine-tune it so precisely? I was advised to set the morning rate after carb free breakfast, afternoon rate after carb free lunch, evening and night rate after carb free supper. This is what I did. And my bolus doses broadly correspond to these Intervals. So, I would love to know how you can fine-tune it in 2 hr Intervals!
For basal testing you need to not eat as the protein and fat in carb free meals does impact on blood glucose levels. Also sort your night time basal first then the day time is a lot easier. Look in the pump forum and you will see a sticky on how to basal test. From your comments I would suspect your biggest problem is your basal not being correct.
What do you have your duration of insulin set at? ( set up advanced 8) is where to find the info.
 
Shedloads of info in the pump forum on how to test - I always repeat the tests a couple of days apart for each 6 hour (ish) tranche, slightly varying their start and stop times and testing alternate hours - the night-time ones can be done easier if you are me LOL and do it over several nights with the alarm to wake me only once every night. I have about 10 different rates each day - some of them may only vary by 0.01u for that particular hour - but it makes one helluva lot of difference to my control!

I use a Roche pump and their software takes everything it knows about you whether want you tell it manually (carb ratios correction rates etc) and via the bolus wizard and meter results and then plots the insulin rates it reckons (LOL) the average bod needs. It has never ever worked for me ! LOL I have only ever let the clinic set this up as an extra, separate basal pattern - so I can revert to whatever it was before when it - again! - doesn't work!
 
As someone who has provided medical care in a variety of settings eg mountain running races lasting up ro 5 days, I NEVER risk giving myself a bolus injection until I have got my food bowl in my hands and usually eaten at least some of it, as there have been many times I've been called away to deal with an emergency. An insultated mug means that hot drinks are usually still warm, but I often have to eat cold food, assuming I can leave it somewhere it won't be thrown away before I can return to it. I'm not sure that non medics understand the situation. Of course, on days when I'm not working in that sort of role, I can bolus then wait.
 
I don't think anyone's that flippin daft that we wouldn't understand why a medic might have to leave his or her food Copepod!

Snag in Aspie's case though might be if she's already bolused for 40g and no sooner than she's taken the first bite ..... Pump could come in really handy for that - it you do an extended bolus for 'on duty' meals with only a little bit right upfront and the rest delivered over the next however long, you can cancel the second bit part way through, and it will tell you what's outstanding. So an hour later when you get back to your delicious now curled up, dried up, sandwich (LOL) - you don't actually HAVE to eat it if you don't want to. But if you do decide to - just have the rest of the outstanding bolus when you eat it!
 
Good luck with your partner: if you want to discuss this in more detail, PM me, I'll try to help if I can 🙂.

Thanks very much for the info. about your Asperger's diagnosis, Aspie, and for saying I can PM you to discuss further 🙂 I may take you up on that when my brain is a bit more functional (I have ME-related dysautonomia and severe cognitive dysfunction which means I'm not very good at things like PMs and emails). I'll talk to my partner though and see what he thinks - like a lot of men, he tends not to go to the doctors unless it is an emergency, but I have been trying for some time to persuade him to see someone about his problem with waking up so early and being unable to get back to sleep.

Btw, speaking as someone with multiple disabling illnesses, I don't think informing your supervising consultants their proposed plan of action goes against the NICE guidelines is an unfortunate tendency at all - it may be that you could do it a bit less bluntly, but the fact that you do it at all is a very good thing for your patients!
 
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This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.
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