Are there different carbs?

[Marmite]

Over the past months I have noted "your" general message to go low carb. I have recently read "that carbs are required for a healthy life. We would die if we did not have salt, different carb types have different purposes for our organs " .
If "you" agree with this, does reducing carbs make more sense than deleting them from our diet.
e.g. if carrots give nutrition to say the liver (completely hypothetical ) then it isn't a good idea to stop eating them.

I think you may say our diets are complex enough already without additional considerations!!

 

[Drummer]

Carbs provide no nutrition for anything.
It is pleasant to have small amounts from stir fries, salads etc for variety of taste texture and colour, but I find that 40 gm of carbs a day provides all that I would like to eat and it is what I can cope with easily. Any less and I'd be considering taking a multi vitamin and mineral tablet.
Salt is one thing I can't live without - but it is an essential mineral and lumping carbs in the same category is most misleading.

 

[Ljc]

To my knowledge we have one person on here who became very ill through lack of salt .
It’s an important mineral that we all need a certain amount of . Imo part of the problem is with all the salt manufacturers add to our food .
Personally I still cook with salt ,though I don’t go mad with it, after cooking I only add salt to my chips.
My dad however adds lots of salt to his meals, but as he’s 94 neither of us worries about it.

Their are the starchy (white) carbs and the wholemeal carbs , all carbs are turned into glucose which is the fuel our bodies and most importantly our brain runs on. I am told that the wholemeal carbs are turned into glucose more slowly, though as an insulin user myself I have not Noticed this.

It’s impossible to totally cut out all carbohydrates as even the humble lettuce has a few.
Our bodies are quite capable of turning protein and fats into glucose .
You need to find the right balance for you, it important, no vital that the changes yo make are enjoyable and sustainable as you not only want to kick pre diabetes into touch you need to keep it from rearing it’s ugly head again in the future.

A couple of things will help you.
If you don’t already have one, invest in a glucose meter .
This is one of the cheapest ones I know of to self fund the ongoing cost of the test strips
We use the mmol measurement in the UK.
You will also need to by more Gluco Navii test strips and a box of lancets all are available here
Gluco navii

Then testing just before eating then two hours after starting to eat , it the difference between the two that lets us know if those carbs are ok for you.

Though it’s not really possible now due to Corvid a pre diabetes course would have been helpful , so keep this in mind for later on when hopefully things will be safer.

With ore diabetes you shouldn’t need to make too drastic changes

 

[Eddy Edson]

I think of food like this: there's a bunch of essential things you need to get from yr diet, and food is really just those essentials packaged in energy.

If you focus too much on the energy part, in other words the "macronutrients" (carbs, fats, protein) you can lose focus on the essential parts, in other words the "micronutrients" (vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids, essential amino acids) and fibre.

You see a lot of commentary to the effect that "carbs are not essential", but this misses the point, which is that micronutrients generally matter far more than macronutrients. Except for essential amino acids, proteins aren't "essential" either; and except for essential fatty acids, neithers are fats. Lots of foods seen as "carbs" contain lots of esential vitamins and minerals, as well as essential amino acids and essential fatty acids. By the same token, lots of non-carby foods can be deficient in some vitamins, minerals, fibre, and can have a way too many non-essential and potentially harmful saturated fats.

The body normally doesn't care much which macronutrients it gets its energy from - it's amazingly evolved to deal efficiently with a huge range of different inputs. It does care a lot about micronutrients.

Diabetes is a dysfuntion in the bod's glucose metabolism and regulation. Carbs post-eating have a big impact on glucose levels so diabetes means you have to worry more about macronutrients than people without it. But you need to balance that with making sure you get your micronutrient intake right also.

So carrots: if you avoid them, because you think they have too many carbs, you have to worry more about where else you get your esential vitamin A from, as a particular example (lettuce is a reasonable answer).

Because I'm a nerdy-dweeb I've found it very useful to actively track my nutrients. I use this www.cronometer.com as a convenient tool but there are a bunch of others out there.

As a general principle, I aim for foods which are "nutrient dense' - in other wrods, deliver more micronutrients as a percentage of daily requirements than they do energy. (Eg the humble carrot: about 1% of my daily energy calories but 300%+ of my daily Vit A requirement. )

Via self-testing, you can overlay that with considerations about which foods do what to your BG levels - this varies a lot from person to person and there are no rules, unfortunately. The end result hopefully is a diet which is BG friendly, micronutritionally good and not excessive for calories/energy.

It's a hassle but for me much more frutiful than obsessing over carbs etc.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Carbs provide no nutrition for anything.

I know that you have a particular sensitivity to carbohydrate Drummer, but that statement really isn't accurate.

Carbohydrates and sugars are a source of readily available energy, and one of the three ‘macronutrients’.

It is possible for the body to make glucose from other sources, but the body does need glucose to function and carbohydrate is a source of that.

The trouble is that for some people the glucose/energy in carbohydrate is *too* readily available, and that of a balance of nutrients in the diet is not carefully managed, their body cannot cope with the common levels of carbohydrate in the modern Western diet.

Added to this is is extremely difficult to completely eradicate carbohydrate in an omnivorous diet. Because almost every fruit and vegetable has some carbohydrate in it, and a diet competely devoid of fruits and vegetables would not be considered healthy by the cast majority of people.

@Marmite - it isn’t about forbidding carbohydrate entirely (not really possible, and not all that wise), it’s about balancing the amount of carbohydrate from a variety of sources, not just the obvious beige ones, so that an individual’s metabolism can successfully access the energy and nutrients without leaving large amounts of excess glucose sloshing around the bloodstream wreaking havoc on fine blood vessels and depositing visceral fat. 🙂

 

[Eddy Edson]

As I understand it protein requirements do increase with age in order to gain and maintain muscle mass, which decreases as we get older.

I think that's the general recommendation, but when you dig into things, you find that the evidence is very skimpy. Eg in the Oz recommendations which I've just been looking at:

Adults older than 53 years appeared to have 25% higher requirements for maintenance than younger adults in an analysis by Rand et al (2003). However, there were only 14 subjects and the difference did not reach significance. Other researchers from the same institute have also suggested a need for higher intakes in older adults (Campbell & Evans 1996, Campbell et al 2001).

Protein | Nutrient Reference Values

Background Protein occurs in all living cells and has both functional and structural properties. Amino acids, assembled in long chains, are the building blocks of protein. Of the 20 amino acids found in proteins, some can be made by the body while others

www.nrv.gov.au

Similar comments in US etc recs.

And another point: the reason for the increased protein recs for older people is because the thought is that the older you get, the less efficiently your bod is at processing the essential amino acids. So once again, it's the micronutrients which are important, not "protein" as a macronutrient.

 

[Kirth]

Not all carbs are the same, glucose is essential for the body.
Sucrose (white sugar) is made up of glucose and fructose.
The body splits the glucose from the fructose so it can provide energy.
Fructose can only be processed by the liver in a similar way as alcohol.
Excess fructose leads to fatty liver disease, metabolic syndrome and Type 2 diabetes.
Fructose is used in processed foods and drinks to make them palatable, it is sweeter than glucose and is also addictive.
Fructose in fruit comes with fiber and is carried further down the gut where bacteria can process it.
Have a look at Robert Lustig's lecture 'Sugar: The Bitter Truth' on youTube.

 

[Deleted member 21371]

I read about it on the NHS website:-

Older people 'would benefit' from weight training and more protein

"GPs should prescribe protein powders and weight lifting to pensioners to help reverse frailty," The Daily Telegraph reports.

www.nhs.uk

Found the article I read about glucose for older brains:-

Low-carb diet may reverse age-related brain deterioration, study finds

Researchers say brain pathways begin to erode in late 40s, but can be repaired through dietary changes

www.theguardian.com

Martin

I found I had great benefits to my general health, as well at my diabetes when I went back to the gym.
I don't think there would be any argument that weight training is an excellent exercise for anyone.
And indeed, protein is essential for any one of any age seeking to build muscle.
However, it's not advised for the elderly in isolation, without any form of muscle growth regime.

The other article is more confusing.
It discussed powering the brain by glucose, or ketones.
But it can be powered simply by drinking a ketone supplement while still on a high carb diet, so does that mean the brain will use both at the same time?
And states the obvious dangers to your heart of eating a high fat diet.

I think the concluding statement “Also, there is a huge amount of evidence showing that the Mediterranean diet is the best diet we’ve got so far for brain and heart,” is the recommendation I have taken.

 

[Drummer]

If carbs are an essential macronutrient how do people survive when they don't eat any carbs?
I have seen it argued that there are actually carbs in meat. I have seen all sorts of arguments about energy sources and needing glucose to function. They don't really make sense, they aren't joined up thinking.
As I wrote, I eat a small amount of carbs for variety flavour and the micronutrients they contain, but as far as I know there are no essential carbs required in the Human diet. If we need glucose, we make it. If we don't need glucose we still make it. Good old liver, trying to be helpful.
I also suspect that drinking ketones is a folly - rather like using a spray on tan instead of going out in the sun.
It has also yet to be proven that a high fat diet is bad for the heart, nor has 'the Mediterranean diet' even been quantified, let alone tested. Accepted 'wisdom' should be put to the test, not just passed on as the truth.

 

[Marmite]

Some very interesting replies, thank you all.
But Mr. Drummer, sir, you write carbs are of no use - yet later say you have them as good micronutrients, - not sure of the contradiction.
It seems from all the above that what I read recently is agreeable, i.e. carbs ARE needed and "we" are too obsessed with them versus a little more attention to nutrients.

 

[adrian1der]

On the salt front - correctly seasoned food should provide adequate salt intake. It is also essential to bring out the flavour!

 

[Drummer]

Some very interesting replies, thank you all.
But Mr. Drummer, sir, you write carbs are of no use - yet later say you have them as good micronutrients, - not sure of the contradiction.
It seems from all the above that what I read recently is agreeable, i.e. carbs ARE needed and "we" are too obsessed with them versus a little more attention to nutrients.

There is no contradiction in what I actually wrote - only in your interpretation.
Carbs are still not needed, and pacing close attention to them can mean the difference between controlling blood glucose levels or not, particularly for someone like me who can just about manage to eat 50 gm of carbs a day and remain within normal limits.
I am a supertaster - or something - I used to work for Allied Lyons doing storage testing to detect deterioration in their dry goods - I add salt to my coffee most mornings, but other than that tiny amount, do not add salt to my food or use it in cooking. I was forbidden from tasting the checks done at a printing firm I worked for, as I could always, without fail, detect the solvent used in the inks.